I have the following question: What is the difference please between 25F (for example with Canon XH A1 is indicated) and 25p (; eg SonyHVR-Z5)? Or is that the same?
So it is at 25F not by 25 authentic frames, as the example makes the Canon HV30?
Is then achieved at a cinema look to the Canon HV 30 Canon preferable HH A1?
mfG
Antwort von WoWu:
25F is not identical with 25p and must not be identical with 25 psf. It's been quite a huge difference whether two fields with interlaced or progressive 1/50s with a full screen in 1 / 25 sec or, as with Canon, two fields are merged into a frame. This is taken primarily with the motion blur. Comparison (i) - (p) - (, F), see the F-images from s.schlechtesten. Furthermore, is (, F) is not specified, other than (for example, PSF) and can therefore consist of an arbitrary interpolation. So hands off of 25F. That would be the worst of all elections. Every picture is better at 25p miles.
Antwort von Meggs:
"WoWu" wrote:
So hands off of 25F. That would be the worst of all elections. Every picture is better at 25p miles.
The Producer will take you seriously now think the HV20 is better than the A1, and has opened synonymous already a relevant thread.
That's the problem when things are not related and does everything reduced to only one parameter. Production work, no preference whether after such a thing as a "film look" or a "stink normal television picture" is to come of it, consists of so many different parameters that one needs to weigh all that the issue certainly plays a role on the aspect ratio, but with the multitude of other parameters can sometimes synonymous recede into the background. But such considerations are made, unfortunately, less and less. The same topic in DSRL video .... We have recently let DSRL times in parallel with a production run with a conventional video camera. The result was disappointing, because a "normal" production operationally by DSRL can not be accepted. It starts at the Remotebarkeit s.and on a crane stop at Filelängen for interviews. Results: Under normal working conditions, as they are introduced to the crew and have proven that provides little useful pictures Take a photo. Since I can now long discussion on the parameter "image quality reduction". I'd probably come to another conclusion, but uses nothing. So I do not quite understand why this format are s.Bildformat moored. times quite apart from that 25F is really gruesome.
Antwort von Rolf Hankel:
"WoWu" wrote:
25F is not identical with 25p and must not be identical with 25 psf. It's been quite a huge difference whether two fields with interlaced or progressive 1/50s with a full screen in 1 / 25 sec or, as with Canon, two fields are merged into a frame. This is taken primarily with the motion blur. Comparison (i) - (p) - (, F), see the F-images from s.schlechtesten. Furthermore, is (, F) is not specified, other than (for example, PSF) and can therefore consist of an arbitrary interpolation. So hands off of 25F. That would be the worst of all elections. Every picture is better at 25p miles.
Hello
Should there still time to ask: In my HV 30 and HF 100, I can choose between 50i and PF25, 50i is therefore the better choice?
Gruss Rolf ...
Antwort von B.DeKid:
What do you like it better?
Or rather ... how much was your PC? Did your PC you could have more power than the calculator chip in your camera?
From whom do you want to would be happy to make the conversion?
MfG B. DeKid
Antwort von Rolf Hankel:
"B. DeKid" wrote:
What do you like it better?
Or rather ... how much was your PC? Did your PC you could have more power than the calculator chip in your camera?
From whom do you want to would be happy to make the conversion?
MfG B. DeKid
From the impression I like her better 25P (; can be synonymous deception) Calculator: Intel Q 9550, Ati Radeon HD 4800, 4GB Ram, XP 32Bit Serv.P2. My question relates to the contribution of Wolfgang of 25F where he advises against
Gruss Rolf ...
Antwort von DeeZiD:
25f: interlaced material (deinterlaced and interlaced in a container, where HDV) accommodated. The quality here is horrible.
25pF: Progressive Interlaced material is stored in a container. The quality here is very good, since no (; inferior as in the A1/G1/H1) deinterlacing held.
Gruß Dennis
Antwort von Meggs:
"DeeZiD" wrote:
25f: interlaced material (deinterlaced and interlaced in a container, where HDV) accommodated. The quality here is horrible.
Then it would have basically the quality of HDV 50i also be horrible. HDV is increasingly viewed on a progressive output device. Makes the output device in real time at 50i the same as 25F in the camcorder: An "inferior" deinterlacing. Do you think the monitor can do that much better than the camcorder? With my Canon A1s see s.Monitor neither the photographs nor the 50i-25F footage from horrible.
Antwort von DeeZiD:
On the PC can deinterlace 50i footage much better than it would be possible-camera.
50i to 25p in Camera (; 25f): cruel, severe loss of sharpness, Kantenaufsteilungen, tremors, etc. ..
50i of the PC (; edint avisynth) to 25p: excellent, no visible loss of sharpness, no artifacts, not much worse than native 25p.
50i of Television / Monitor by 50p: Depends on the television or monitor. If you're unlucky stinknormal Bobbing is used (; make as many of LG TVs, easy) just awful.
Gruß Dennis
Antwort von WoWu:
Ratings of how good or bad, sharp or blurred are always subjective. As for the one still looks fine, enough for the other no longer. It is clear that we have segmented frames for the disadvantages of both methods. You (have to forgo the double temporal resolution of the (i), so the disadvantage of (p), but must be the de-(interlacer pass; disadvantage of i). Compared with a real p there is always a temporal filtering and the associated motion blur. In fast movements, she likes (; in the current picture) are not as noticeable, but it is always stressful for the encoder and there is an encoding does not improve, but in critical parts of the image deteriorated. (; Disadvantage compared to p). One clearly sees the differences in the (; Stillimage) Comparison of the three format, where fast moving objects are shown. Hence my comment that of the 3 formats is the compromise, the worst choice.
Antwort von Meggs:
"WoWu" wrote:
You (have to forgo the double temporal resolution of the (i), so the disadvantage of (p), but must be the de-(interlacer pass; disadvantage of i).
When I 50i material s.Computerbildschirm look, I see 50 frames per second or 25 frames / sec deinterlaced?
Antwort von Meggs:
I ask the question once the other way:
I am well in SD and 50i, the advantage of higher temporal resolution on a CRT TVs conscious. I am not clear, however, as shown in HD 50i and a higher temporal resolution can come about if what you look always deinterlaced with 25 frames / sec will.
Antwort von WoWu:
You have the motion sequence of 50 frames per second combined into 25 frames. So you see 25 frames with half the contents of 50 images.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
"Compared with a real p is always a temporal filtering and the associated motion blur."
In HV20/30/40 this is different, the chip is a full 25x Picture taken, then as a time-two non-transferred recorded fields written to the tape. This material is compatible with the 1080i project settings in the NLE without time delay and stop with all the resulting benefits!
I've already written, but often prefer WoWu.
Antwort von Meggs:
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
In HV20/30/40 this is different, the chip is a full 25x Picture taken, then as a time-two non-transferred recorded fields written to the tape.
That is clear. That is synonymous with 25P CMOS. Here, this is about 25F, the Canon 3CCD's.
Antwort von WoWu:
So first, there are no fields or frames that are written on the tape, but only a binary file in which the progressive flag will be set one way or another, and the reading is done s.Sensor. With the flag following the decoding will be informed whether the de-inter-laser is used or not. If in any case there should be a progressive picture, why in the world, should a company needlessly by sending a de-interlacer to produce an identical Progressivebild? Bruno, have you synonymous to an answer? To come back to the main problem in this respect once again to ... where exactly is that the A1 progressive reads? For it is not true. The 3 CCD progressive fields generated from an interlaced readout. Thus becomes a kind of de-inter leasing occurred in the camera. One may now philosophizing about whether the line-doubling is better than, in any case, it is not a progressive reading! Hence the name synonymous F instead of PSF. Panasonic for example, reads the sensors and then progressively produces real PSF, which incidentally only hung with the SDI transmission together. Only for this reason, was introduced at PSF. This has nothing to do with saving on any tapes.
Antwort von Meggs:
"WoWu" wrote:
Panasonic for example, reads the sensors and then progressively produces real psf
Therefore have the Panasonic HD CCD's so few pixels? As far as I know you can read out CCD's in HD resolution due to time constraints not progressive.
Antwort von Meggs:
@ WoWu What to me now is still not clear: What is the advantage of higher temporal resolution in the HDV 50i Comparison of 25F. At 25F, the 2 fields from the camcorder, and this added up to a deinterlaced frame. 50i done exactly the same thing behind in the output.
Antwort von Meggs:
"WoWu" wrote:
why in the world, should a company needlessly by sending a de-interlacer to produce an identical Progressivebild? Bruno, have you synonymous to an answer?
As far as I know, but on 2 identical features Canon i-frames, however, lives in 25P (; it is in the Manual of the A1S). The interlaced flag is therefore both the 25P of the HC 30 is not set as synonymous with 25F of the A1, and is therefore not synonymous behind deinterlaced. The difference between 25P (; HV30) and 25F (, A1) arises from the record when reading - the HV30's CMOS read out progressively, the A1 reads the CCD 's of interlaced and then makes deinterlacing. From the moment the signal is identical.
Antwort von DeeZiD:
"Meggs" wrote:
@ WoWu What to me now is still not clear: What is the advantage of higher temporal resolution in the HDV 50i Comparison of 25F. At 25F, the 2 fields from the camcorder, and this added up to a deinterlaced frame. 50i done exactly the same thing behind in the output.
Strange issue ...
So, in a 50i source you can decide whether to 50p, 25p or 50i stop spending. In 25f one is limited to an artificially produced 25p.
Buy Best solution: Camera with real 25p, if desired. Alternative: Absorb with 50i and deinterlace s.PC via avisynth.
Gruß Dennis
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Meggs That is just doubtful that it is a Deinterleasing from 50 fields, or whether a line-doubling art happening, which of course due to the smaller V-res to lower Flickereffekten. Also there is (i) in connection with the problem of systemic with 4:2:0 color Falschinterpolation ... synonymous in this case, it would disappear, and has lower temporal resolution, but just give a "clearer" picture. Sure brought all a balancing thing, the Canon on this obscure format has. You will probably already have identified one or other advantage over (i). One should not confuse it it is only (, which is unfortunately often done) with (; psf) and certainly not with (: p) because that is now even less.
@ Dennis Why this was a "strange output" .... that was completely correct .. And how can I make with a 50i source is a 50p output? Unless I choose half the Spatial Resolution? Or have I misunderstood something? And how can I choose a 25p output, unless I deinterlease ... If all this were easy, it'd give this thread not.
Antwort von WoWu:
"Meggs" wrote:
As far as I know, but on 2 identical features Canon i-frames, however, lives in 25P (; it is in the Manual of the A1S). The interlaced flag is therefore both the 25P of the HC 30 is not set as synonymous with 25F of the A1, and is therefore not synonymous behind deinterlaced. The difference between 25P (; HV30) and 25F (, A1) arises from the record when reading - the HV30's CMOS read out progressively, the A1 reads the CCD 's of interlaced and then makes deinterlacing. From the moment the signal is identical.
But that would mean that the recorded format (; is A1) 25p compatible .... but it is not. You can read a 25p camera with no 25F signal. (; Away the time I leave here HC30, because it has to do with the actual problem, anything) And why should Canon (with a Camera 25i, 50i old Beziechnung) the signal output as a re-25F, when an identical signal could (synonymous produced in the NLE, because, as you describe it's a perfectly normal de. Interleasing)
Antwort von Meggs:
In the printed manual of A1S is this something different than in the online manual of the A1
Quote:
"25F-HD mode takes up according to the HDV native 1080/25p-Spezifikationen 25 frames per second. For playback, the signal is converted to 50i., The video output via the HDV / DV connection is made, however, with 25p
In addition, ne is graphic, as is 25F (; camcorders) 25p (; tape) 50i (; Play) As always synonymous, this may actually mean.
What I would be more interested in how long does the readout of the CCD 's? What happens if I expose in 50i with 1 / 25 seconds? If only is exposed, then read out, then there would be already at 1 / 50 shutter speed in 50i no more time for reading.
Antwort von WoWu:
Hi Meggs It is because of rd. 30 MHz clock frequencies. But, as always, utterly dependent on the sensor, and always a balance between heat generation and noise and, of course, charge state, which one would always like to keep around 80% (;) must ... And do not forget that resolution. For these (; and some others) parameters results in the clock. So you can go out of approximately 33nS per pixel at 30 MHz. And now, the resolution comes into play because at 1.3 Mpix to get even in critical areas at the clock because as it is already at 42.9 ms and a progressive picture is only 40 ms .... So one has already cycle heights at the expense of the noise,. Meaning, it is not even around an interpolation ... therefore, the low Pixeldichten with CCDs, and the tendency to interlace. But for me it is a fundamental question, because ILT CCDs of the architecture are constructed entirely differently and either a CCD interlaced or just does not make, both the memory array is not listening. So how should a CCD times (i) in ILT and read times (p) in FT? Both require different memory configurations. So what matters is Canon because s.kryptischen indicating pure consumer idiocy. For me there is half a P picture from the I-chip and read the rest of this interpolation. Line doubling is called commonly. Perhaps a bit with Schicki Micki around it, but not full of spatial resolution. Commonly synonymous "Progressive for the poor called.
Antwort von Meggs:
Hello Wolfgang,
If I understand you correctly is not to say after, but during the exposure read since reading just as long as the exposure. I can imagine the bad. The first ripped pixels would then be exposed so much shorter, and therefore appear darker than the synonymous letze. Again, my question you know: you know what happens when a 50i recording with 1 / 25 sec is exposed?
Regards
Meggs
Antwort von Axel:
Everyone is free to make their own tests and compare critically. Clearly, the F-mode WoWu know (only from the theory, or Fanta them, he merely speculating), it is quite tales, when listening to a pastor about sex. Results of such tests is that "line-doubling could not explain" why " an "i" Picture framing of it looks just as sharp as an "F" Picture, if nothing is moving (; Yes, I know that this is only true with "p" would be explainable, I once read of 11% resolution loss " F ", it will be such that such a measurable and would be detectable. Line-doubling would be 50%) " and much worse than an "F" looks-Picture, if moving the Picture (; pivot) " there are no interlace artifacts "F" indicates that with all synonymous combined, subsequent deinterlacing techniques Stillimage seen in the motion blur are (and I stress that is largely retrospective deinterlacing and the whole alternative to "F" . In theory, arise in adaptive DI better resolution, just to test to what extent this difference is relevant in practice for one is).
The mixing of real and false p is completely unproblematic. EX-3 with 25p and 25p of the A1, for example. One of've tried and makes it easy, the other is past the lust: The shot is coming after all the objections he has heard, because it is unlikely to ...
Antwort von Meggs:
"Axel" wrote:
One of've tried and makes it easy, the other is past the lust: The shot is coming after all the objections he has heard, because it is unlikely to ...
I'll try it on just in case. In initial tests I've come to the same conclusion: The F-recordings not look worse than the i-shots. If they look bad in theory would look better but in practice, it is to me no preference.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Quote:
Clearly, the F-mode WoWu know (only from the theory or fantasy, he's merely speculating), it is quite tales, when listening to a pastor about sex.
Nice that Axel if he can not participate in deliberations, other than polemics, must contribute clever sayings and oblique comparisons. The bear then, with as always, at least for the entertainment. Maybe I can with the (; attached) example used, where even Axel has apparently nothing to contribute because such "practical" except for their one-dimensional world, "I think it looks good doing", not really usable items. And .. Axel ... of course it is speculation, especially if Canon makes contradictory statements, as of Meggs described. It seems Canon are still very effort to let consumers in the dark as to what lies behind these proprietary formats, the Canon has to offer other than None. To that extent your Comparison was pretty useless. And there is no sense of a forum, synonymous to think about what causes very specific format and what they consider advantages or disadvantages? Need for every consumer, like you, all as "God-given tolerate"? If you can afford to discussions or any positive contributions to the deliberations and its contents do not understand anyway, but you just sit back and do not read the next thread before you here instead untreffliche comparisons. (; Completely aside from the concerns that your world view, (; synonymous) was pastor, apparently synonymous still corresponds to the Middle Ages and the pastors is certainly not just. But perhaps your knowledge of video technology is so similar to ... opportunity for the , you think so give again and again ... but who knows)?
But tell us how it is done, then our thoughts can at least be completed with a score ... but you can obviously not synonymous?
And sometimes quite apart from that this is not the speech of P, but of F and it is hardly relevant whether you 25p now can be mixed with anything or not .... F under discussion and the A1 does not even P ... but those are probably synonymous only cause confusion in practice, if not one of the difference is so clear ... Since you are not alone. And that you see no difference between the formats, it must indeed not necessarily mean that he's not here.
@ Bruno ... Your contribution will be surprised myself relating to it or you want to just express that you are not synonymous, it has ... And you can contribute anything constructive? Or is the quotation in a "keyword" to which you react very very euphoric?
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Tsss ...
Antwort von TheBubble:
As far as I know, is to designate "f" instead of "p" is used to define, since interlace CCDs are used and no progressive CCDs.
As the technical implementation looks like in the respective cameras, one would have to ask the Manufacturer if you want a definitive answer.
One possible approach in principle, be read, however, would be the following: There can be three CCDs are available, would enable them (and two CCDs to take the first field, a CCD), the second field, but at the same time. This is then combined into a progressive recording.
Antwort von Axel:
@ WoWu Your assessment of my character is certainly very true, I consider myself synonymous not very literate. In this we differ.
All that concerns it may, I would just suggest their own tests before (and the flailing hand WoWus Evidence attachment is an example of a good motive, a whole man, the strong gestures, is even better). Not assessed the progress images (and here loses "i") always judged the Picture in the movement. Blind test, ie, someone else will switch modes at random. The results keep for you.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Axel
Quote:
Your assessment of my character is certainly very true, I consider myself not synonymous fabric shine.
Sake of good order, I would like to place the right. It is not true that this is my opinion. You still are of course free to make its own assessment, but please do not impute to me such claims or assessments. Overestimated the rest put yourself to assume that other people do think about your character state ... I can not.
@ TheBubble Unfortunately, there is indeed no way to access the CCD signals, as proposed, and the one who could (and Canon) have indeed no interest in having to be watching in the cards, and admit that behind their "progressive" method, nothing more than a simple "bobbing" hides.
Antwort von wolfgang:
Oh God, always those animosities. I think the comparative picture before it shows very clearly what the situation is - 50i has a good motion resolution, because two fields are presented here. A Field of 50i must appear sharper, but rucket das in the movement and 25f - now you see it eh
Children, I would like to see real change stop 50p ... not least, not to read this discussion again and again! :))
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Theproducer Perhaps here more to illustrate the result of 25 PF and F (; Appendix) For now, the speculation would end. Very nice to see that the number of lines has been halved compared to 25i. Thus it is with a resolution of 540 lines there. Each camera makes at P 720 since then more shots and when you then consider that loses the difference between 1280 and 1440 are synonymous as early as the sensor resolution, I would probably the 720p a JVC 24 Format allemale prefer.
Antwort von Axel:
I'll check once synonymous with card. Turns out that you're right, I will, of course, to apologize. I'm probably guilty of it.
Antwort von WoWu:
Axel, controversy is nothing negative in my eyes .... insofar as the term "debt" shall take not the case. I just assumed it synonymous (; as you have correctly identified) and am now a next step. In this respect our little dispute was positive. In that sense, the best greeting
Antwort von TheBubble:
If you take it same test, but please try it again the synonymous (; black / white) table with the lines beleucht not only with white light, but only once synonymous with one of the three primary colors (; RGB) lights.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
No, no ..., in the case of 25F has the ISBN right, but not for the case 25 PF!
Antwort von WoWu:
Justification?
Antwort von Meggs:
"WoWu" wrote:
Perhaps here more to illustrate the result of 25 PF and F (; Plant)
From what your camcorder is because the plant? Was it now PF or F?
Antwort von WoWu:
This was (, F), but who can describe the difference between PF and F, as long as the camera a deinterlace chip as an image sensor has, I would be looking forward to the time difference between PF and F. Do you know the difference? And if it (; would be P), why not Canon then writes (, P). ... and now, please not again the story of "half-images stored on tape" ...
Antwort von Meggs:
"WoWu" wrote:
This was (, F), but who can describe the difference between PF and F, as long as the camera a deinterlace chip as an image sensor has, I would be looking forward to the time difference between PF and F. Do you know the difference? And if it (; would be P), why not Canon then writes (, P). ... and now, please not again the story of "half-images stored on tape" ...
You are always answering only some of the questions: Which camcorder is the attachment??
The HV30 has nen completely different chip than the 3CCD A1. Who says that the chip is read out of the HV30 is not progressive?
Canon says that the A1S spends over FireWire P. Only the format that is written to tape, called Canon Q. Can I get next above quoted verbatim.
Antwort von WoWu:
But this gives her no further details, of course, the HV30 has a different chip. And what Canon says it contradicts itself so synonymous take, as you rightly noted above, synonymous. So: Is the HV30 an interlace chip or not? If she has a progressive read-out chip, then why are they there for no P? Interlace chips (because of its design and related readout not in the situation, to print all lines) as a progressive Picture and time lines can indeed be said to be a P interpolate it looks like but we all know.
Quote:
Who says that the chip is read out of the HV30 is not progressive?
I note, therefore, not synonymous You can say what is sitting on a chip inside the HV 30 and lose yourself synonymous in lively speculation and you always fret just the right quote out Canon, although there are plenty of contradictory Canon descriptions. But as the HV30 is primarily supported an interlace method, I do not assume that because a P chip inside it. To me it is now somewhat synonymous no preference because the original discussion on (, F) and was finished I returned to the theme. Strong doubt with me whether this is great made in other interlace cameras differently because of the way there almost synonymous only on the (; is F) solution, unless you (; or Bruno) will show me a working solution on other And not just "not look like ...", or "Canon going to write. .." these are not solutions. Perhaps yes, the HV30 synonymous times a stop in front of a blackboard, and compare the two methods, we would have a solution. In discussions we come from, how it does not seem to really next.
Antwort von Alan Smithee:
"WoWu" wrote:
Is the HV30 an interlace chip or not? If she has a progressive read-out chip, then why are they there for no P?
Because it is a consumer camera is really synonymous every editing program (from the dozens available, can capture the HDV2) with the p-can handle images.
Antwort von WoWu:
But how can it capture HDV2 with a progressive working chip? Not only is the image sensors, but synonymous, the scanning process are fundamentally different and the procedures are mutually exclusive, unless one of the methods is generated subsequently artificially. And why are not synonymous, at least, the progressive recordings issued as progressive, why do you need such a perverse SF Signal? Every NLE can (these days, probably a better deal) with P than with I.
However, the discussion turns in a circle .... All this has been gnawed at F and already there seems to be no new information, until finally one that has an HV30, they synonymous times before holding a card. And because everyone here just rumraten, I venture a guess and synonymous still think the result will look similar, as in F.
Antwort von domain:
I am afraid WoWu is right in every respect, unless Canon 25P is fundamentally different and better s.als 25F. Have just the FX1 at 1 / 25 sec tested with respect ISO12233 times, when that was indeed the same recording of 2 interlaced fields of a full-screen still sold as a marketing ploy, but was already implicit. Lo and behold, half the vertical resolution at this exposure time, in fact, once in half because I need no test to post pictures so clear as that Type times strongly suggests that this is synonymous to common methods of recording at 25 Canon PF or F. Rebuttal would be interesting.
Antwort von B.DeKid:
I've already said a thousand times but this is the Canon mode, a cheat pack!
And above all what this is indeed went, was the very sensible question whether that would be better for KINO. Because we want to make Mr. theproducer yes KINO.
People People, how can you rumkauen so long ... I do not understand.
Anyone who wants the full picture is still a 35mm camera since then he has to buy synonymous full images;-P
Stupid thread ...
Antwort von domain:
"wolfgang" wrote:
Oh God, always those animosities ... Children, I wish I stop ....
Our Kindergarten is the uncle indeed synonymous already on my nerves, but has only very weak, so we now need to be quite honest.
Antwort von WoWu:
Quote:
But I've already said a thousand times ....
Had you can substantiate this as synonymous? People here have said a lot ....
Quote:
Stupid thread ...
You had with him so can shorten substance ....
Antwort von B.DeKid:
Sorry WoWu .... but
- First, because I go by feel and sight Result - Secondly, I find it silly when people (carp on your professional statements rum; Verweiß with the ISBN)
..........................
Furthermore, I'm like Axel said the Meihnung everyone should choose its settings, such as He wills.
For me this is about the XL1s and since I clearly tell
- 16:9 and Cinema mode ... can be made better.
.............................
Whether and what makes Cam P now correct me if not synonymous, or no preference when it comes to the thread starter ... consider this as a criterion for movies and commercials films as an argument to purchase .... and would prefer it if the HV30 XH A1 was the case.
MfG B. DeKid
Antwort von TheBubble:
"WoWu" wrote:
But how can it capture HDV2 with a progressive working chip?
By 50 or 60 times per second, progressive reads the entire chip and then it creates an interlaced frame, which is then compressed and stored.
"WoWu" wrote:
Not only is the image sensors, but synonymous, the scanning process are fundamentally different and the procedures are mutually exclusive, unless one of the methods is generated subsequently artificially.
You can create it later from progressive images with matching refresh rate and that is synonymous not so complicated.
"WoWu" wrote:
And why are not synonymous, at least, the progressive recordings issued as progressive, why do you need such a perverse SF Signal?
I suppose you want to know why you save images as interlaced progressive recording? You do it because there is an HDV - are standard for 1080i.
"WoWu" wrote:
until finally one that has a HV30, it keeps synonymous times before a card.
Which card it should be and how the experimental setup will look like exactly?
Now again to the 3 - CCD cameras with interlaced sensor: In this constellation, can I boost, at least in appropriate situations, more than every 2nd Line interpolated easily. Manufacturer and whether it should do so in what models I can not answer, of course. But the principle is similar to the increase in resolution by the offset of a CCD to 1 / 2 pixels, and in some ways synonymous with the procedures, with which is created from a 1-chip sensor with the actual color sample picture.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ B. DeKid
Quote:
First, I'll go there to feel and view result
Well, so synonymous has led to the conclusion that both are deciding on sight, come to different conclusions. Axel says, it's all very well, you tell it, it's all rubbish. With your observation that you can beat lie indeed very encouraging, but View results simply emerge more randomly. And if the thread can do starting now in advance, no such comparisons, so why bother him because not a helping hand. That turns out now, both alternatives as unfit, of course, stupid, wrong. So this is still a good result ... or?
Quote:
- Secondly, I find it silly when people nag on your professional statements rum
I think that all knowledge is always presumed knowledge (; as Karl Popper said) and a refutation of progress means to me, because I can correct positions. I brought the thread a bit, because I was with this obscure format was once more engaged, because I think it just as you and I never perceived it as a suitable format. To that extent we are not far apart, as synonymous only settings I choose, which I consider as an exploitable ... So intuitively, we all do the same thing .... only just the thread starter here took another knock ... what indeed is understandable, perhaps to make his 24p experiences synonymous with the "cinema format" first had to be. I'm sure its 1,000 th Posting is synonymous include another question ... In this sense, therefore, best greetings
Antwort von WoWu:
@ TheBubble
Of course it is possible to make P-I. Only if you look at the creation and retrieval of time I look, then offers it in terms of the "side effects ("; resulting artifacts) to not sooner. Synonymous why I said that one of the format will always be "fake" because the image sensors of its hardware structure are as synonymous of the kind of reading too much different than that both formats could generate "perfect". That it is now making all companies, not yet heist, the need for both formats available in an optimized form.
Quote:
I suppose you want to know why you save images as interlaced progressive recording? You do it because there is an HDV - are standard for 1080i.
No, misunderstood ... I wanted to know the reason for a company that creates a real p signal, as a proprietary M, or PF, or what should be offered synonymous, if it does, as suggested here in the thread, it should be a real P. And once again:) The binary data stream (, i or p is no different except for the "progressive flag"! Another storage on tape is utter nonsense. But the methods differ, as the sampled values in the image sensor "between" be saved considerably.
Quote:
Now again to the 3 - CCD cameras with interlaced sensor: In this constellation, can I boost, at least in appropriate situations, more than every 2nd Line interpolated easily.
The only problem is that anyway even when every second row of the image sensor is interpolated with a line to avoid line Twitter and Flicker to CCDs and when I come exacerbates that every other sensor surface is darkened, because they are used as storage is. It is not so very "linear" what they can imagine for a scan. More difficult to alternative processes, especially because most of them come from the photograph and turn out for fast moving pictures rather than useless. One must therefore always have the moving picture in your head when you (on the alternatives, it certainly is) thinking.
Antwort von Axel:
Has F 'is a compromise, like someone above posted next. The HDV it is indeed found on the computers of various shapes, as. M2t as. Mpeg. Avi or. Mov, but the players show in the "Properties" no way "to progressively", but usually "50i". Also on tape replay you can (a "as" 25p-cut film is not, is synonymous with CMOS). Poor support of 1080p2 5 (; eg Bluray). It can hardly be used as the output format, but will usually choose a different codec.
My "F" story, now may be a history of mistakes: When amateur videographers, but I'm surrounded distribution of high tech (; My work is D-Cinema adopter) for the first hour, I would describe my look as sharp in training. Resolution I regard as relative, not only a higher to a lower resolution, but as for the evaluation of image quality - a subjective approach - only suitable and widely known to be overestimated.
Nevertheless, HD introduced as well. My colleagues (and six (plus me), serious amateurs; (all), camera students, started two), (small-scale videographers, three): One bought an FX-1. I was impressed with the improved resolution, but saw no reason to part of my VX 2000, I had at that time rather the DVX (, we note: "p"-ability! Interested) from a colleague. As one who bought the HVX 200 (; time including P2 cards s.The) 8000 ¬, I was, after we had seen the pictures on the big screen, fully convinced and began Hardc * re-saving.
Another bought for half a year or so later, the XH-A1 (; then about 4000 ¬). Previously I had been busy here in the forum asked for the "F", but contradictory, obviously not getting solid answers. The above forces now tested the A1, especially the "F" mode in Comparison to the "i" mode. My own verdict: Not as great as the HVX, but I was able to grant me the same or a new Savings Calculator. Meanwhile, I have purchased together with a colleague, the EX-3.
My colleagues consider the testimony of WoWu untenable, his evidence is wrong, overall the forum for a braggart Zoo, where you just kills time. That must mean, not much now, we are certainly not an authority but jerks. However, driving s.besten who believes only what he himself understood.
"TheBubble" wrote:
If you take it same test, but please try it again the synonymous (; black / white) table with the lines beleucht not only with white light, but only once synonymous with one of the three primary colors (; RGB) lights.
I might even say much. A test of hergibt something synonymous would have to include the downloadable original videos, as well as strictly a test structure, which shows the exact, quantifiable loss of resolution of "F". In addition, comparisons with various deinterlacing methods to find the closest to. Bobbing one can exclude the same, a 50% loss of resolution would any of us (; and of you) will see immediately, we are not completely stupid! That is why I say that these sayings are always of people who "know Q," not even in practice.
For that I need time. I will not press me, I creep with the same good humor crosses, with the swagger of the others I may depart.
Antwort von Meggs:
F BDeKid find ne sham and clearly bad. Axel and I can identify at least not deteriorated at F to i.
Why? Are we blind?
The "Frame Mode" of Canon has been around forever. BDeKid has ne old XL1. In the frame mode was simply bad, you could see it right away.
On my XM2 Frame mode is not much the better for me with exposure 1 / 50 sec. But if I with exposure 1 / 25 sec, provides the frame mode of the XM2 a lot better.
When A1S the F-mode looks really good. At nem average video, still images tested with a measuring card I have not yet.
I WoWu Up next for at least 3 times asking if he knows what happens when you record and 50i with 1 / 25 sec exposure ceases. He has always skipped, or at least never answered. I have asked this question because the "Frame Mode" of the XM2 with 1 / 25 sec exposure looks much better than with 1 / 50 sec I asked WoWu at least 2 times to get pictures of what your camcorder's test. I find this question important because the Canon Frame mode with the XL1S looks so bad, when A1S but really good for the HV30, I do not know.
Antwort von Axel:
"Meggs" wrote:
... what happens when you record and 50i with 1 / 25 sec exposure ceases. He has always skipped, or at least never answered. I have asked this question because the "Frame Mode" of the XM2 with 1 / 25 sec exposure looks much better than with 1 / 50 sec
Earlier I wrote that for 25p 1/50tel the most appropriate shutter speed. I came to this conclusion, however, with "F". With real p, it is my opinion 1/25tel. As always please test yourself. The above defendant next motion blur in "F" in 1/50tel looks exactly like "p" with 1/25tel, ie without the deinterlacing in otherwise typical ghost-shadow-blur or other artifacts. As always please test yourself.
Antwort von TheBubble:
"Axel" wrote:
I might even say much. A test of hergibt something synonymous would have to include the downloadable original videos, as well as strictly a test structure, which shows the exact, quantifiable loss of resolution of "F".
A Stillimage a test chart would be enough. The test setup would have to be synonymous only appropriate to make visible any relative differences and not the actual resolution of the camera would have to pinpoint (; is clear to me that this would require considerably more effort).
"Axel" wrote:
Bobbing one can exclude the same, a 50% loss of resolution would any of us (; and of you) will see immediately, we are not completely stupid! That is why I say that these sayings are always of people who "know Q," not even in practice.
Well, I would want a closer look at me once before, but I can not even for testing purposes, simply to buy all sorts of cameras ;-)
I will not synonymous assume that you have a 50% loss of resolution, but my guess is the following: When white light and (relatively gray motifs; -> all three primary colors (, R, G, B) take on the sensors) the highest resolution achieved. If only one of the primary colors for highlighting the subject (; or used test charts), then synonymous decreases the perceived resolution, as now, the trick with the offset line does not work anymore. But do ask if you want to try it, not biased by this assumption.
Antwort von TheBubble:
@ WoWu
"WoWu" wrote:
Of course it is possible to make P-I. Only if you look at the creation and retrieval of time I look, then offers it in terms of the "side effects ("; resulting artifacts) to not sooner.
What artifacts do you mean? A line flicker in CRT monitors, if no vertical lowpass filter is Employed? Alias | Wavefront Mayaingartefakte?
"WoWu" wrote:
Synonymous why I said that one of the format will always be "fake" because the image sensors of its hardware structure are as synonymous of the kind of reading too much different than that both formats could generate "perfect".
Of course, some of the format must always be obtained from others. On the one hand, the sensor is progressive or interlaced, the other the most of today's sensors have a variety of recording formats supported (; eg DV) far too many pixels. If one were to use only the inner pixels, then the recording would be much too wide angle and the sensor surface was relatively no. So there must be translated either way.
"WoWu" wrote:
No, misunderstood ... I wanted to know the reason for a company that creates a real p signal, as a proprietary M, or PF, or what should be offered synonymous, if it does, as suggested here in the thread, it should be a real P.
Ahso. HDV, at least defined in 1440x1080er resolution only an interlace format, unfortunately. Therefore, p-shots saved marked as interlaced and you need the software for imported clips manually switch to progressive. I assume that an HDV label and conformity is important to manufacturers.
"WoWu" wrote:
The only problem is that in any case have every second row of the image sensor is interpolated with a single line, to avoid line Twitter and Flicker to
You probably think here interlace CCDs. This is not interpolated, but there are always two adjacent rows are averaged. This corresponds to (a low-pass filtering, for the display on CRT monitors to prevent any case of line flicker is installed), but has the advantage that no sensor surface is given away and the light yield is higher.
Antwort von Meggs:
"WoWu" wrote:
No, misunderstood ... I wanted to know the reason for a company that creates a real p signal, as a proprietary M, or PF, or what should be offered synonymous, if it does, as suggested here in the thread, it should be a real P.
I think herein expressed from Canon already reasonably clear. We understand it may only do so immediately.
The output via FireWire is standardized P and is described as synonymous. Recording on tape is proprietary and is called F. Tapes are recorded in F, can only read of compatible Canon camcorder, and are output as P.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Meggs
Quote:
what happens when you record and 50i with 1 / 25 sec exposure ceases.
The fields at I-(; CCDs) are becoming more integrated with 40 ms per half frame. Shutter speed changes do not produce more or less fields)
Quote:
Of what his test come camcorder pictures
XH-A1E
Otherwise, the thread again turns in a circle ... "Everything looks much better," "when you can not see the moving pictures," "can not be .." etc. but little tangible evidence. For me the issue is (, F) completed only once.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Quote:
Perhaps here more to illustrate the result of 25 PF and F (; Appendix) For now, the speculation would end.
No, that hits HDV25p (; PF25), the HV20, not 30.40! It also had evidence that the number of lines will not be halved, synonymous if the dear Lord Wowo here so the drums!
Antwort von domain:
Well then show us views the evidence. Here is a simple proof carried out: test pattern printed on A4 and filmed.
zum Bild Here are the results of the FX1 with 1 / 50 seconds 1080i
zum Bild Here are the results of the FX1 with 1 / 25 seconds 1080i.
With this exposure time, the FX1 is storing two fields generated from a full screen. Easily recognized by the fact that it is synonymous with moving images makes no difference whether BOB is active in VLC or not, that is, the picture may not be deinterlaced, because both fields are the same and been out a full screen. A shutter speed of 1 / 12 Sec. moreover, the sum of 4 fields, which are all derived from one and the same frame. But it is clear that this is not full screen (through hardware-deinterlacing in the camera, you can see in the area between 6 and 7 formed on) but by simple Linieninterpolation is one Halbildes, so really only has half the number of lines, as indeed does it has WoWu for the A1 shown for the F-format. If the PF-format (, 1 / 25 sec look) in the HV20-40 (, etc.) are not significantly better, then the relative proof is not provided.
Antwort von B.DeKid:
"Meggs" wrote:
F BDeKid find ne sham and clearly bad. Has ne ..... BDeKid old XL1. .....
XL1s nich XL1 ... But you're right ... still yet to see grottig. ,-P B. DeKid
Antwort von domain:
The F-format is a huge Mogelpackung with reasonable certainty, at least until someone proves us that the Qualtätsabfall not as obvious as with the FX1 at 1 / 25 is (; actually a typical P-format, stored on two fields) as for the A1 in the F-mode, which is indeed not at all like this distinction, which is practically identical. Synonymous is particularly unlikely that the consumer models of Canon were to deliver better results than the A1. But we'll see, and still waiting for evidence .... (; and then we take it all back)
Antwort von DWUA:
"domain" wrote:
But we'll see, and still waiting for evidence .... (; and then we take it all back)
Then, when once happened to "Linden Street", "Oak Alley" or the belly of Hitchcock when CSI is opened. Or, this place offers some obedience?
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Quote:
With this exposure time, the FX1 is storing two fields generated from a full screen.
Go ..., since when can the inclusion of a chip FX1 capture a full screen at 1920x1080, if there is only a 3CCD fitted with 972 x 1100 pixels?
It would be interesting to see your views on ominous evidence. As mentioned above, next you want, it is not about absolute quality and resolution, but a relative Comparison, as I have shown him in the two images.
Antwort von Meggs:
@ Domain
Can you give me nen link to an Iso-test image with good resolution, which you can print sharp? I've googled a while, but I find only very low resolution.
Your test, I find that very interesting. I'm still not really clear what happens if you 50i with 1 / 25 sec exposure. Actually, it would have to be exposed at first, then read out. Since 50i recording phased show fields that I previously thought that at 1 / 50 shutter speed 2 times exposed and 2 time 1 Field is read. But it can not be, because even at 1 / 50 shutter speed is no time to read longer there. According WoWu ms is required for the readout of an HD-chip 40th Then read it constantly. If this is so, if there are really at your test 1 exposure of 2 fields, I can not explain why there is a loss of resolution. That it is indeed one sees. But why?
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
On my camera, in the case 25PF read an entire picture from the host chip, which has indeed the necessary pixel resolution. This happens naturally with a single exposure, without any time lag, it is a true 25p recording with full number of lines. Only in the further process of the division takes place in two - not delayed - to save the fields tape!
Antwort von Meggs:
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
On my camera, in the case 25PF read an entire picture from the host chip, which has indeed the necessary pixel resolution.
The resolution of the chip is irrelevant in this case. In test domains we see a deterioration in the resolution of the same chips at 1 / 25 sec
Antwort von domain:
@ Meggs Gib mal ISO test chart (in the image search, large) of Google book. Of which there are 3648 * 2736 downwards.
In the FX1 with its interlaced sensors is working with long exposure times, the picture seems really exposed in a longer and only then read out. This of course is only a Halbbildqualität, which is extrapolated to full screen. Is not really possible otherwise, other than the chip itself would work s.sich already progressive. This generated (;) ev theoretical frame is then appear alternately written with straight lines and odd interlaced fields onto tape and although as a multiple of 2 dependent of an exposure time that is longer than 1 / 50. Having it here is exactly the same effects as it has been shown WoWu for the A1, I assume that the F-mode in the FX1 but defacto application was recovered marketingmäßig but not at this time.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Now, domain, and if I have chipseitig taken a whole consisting of the 1080 Picture and then for the disk into two fields each with 540 lines is not deferred (; <- logical! Share) for the upper and the lower field and then into a 1080i Project paste for processing, then I have not only 540 but next 1080 lines!
PF25 Picture this here so this can be scaled synonymous wonderfully without rostrum, etc. s.schräg extending edges of the image!
But when using the camera of the house for only one field (; read as the Canon website), then have your clip in the Project synonymous only 540 lines and you've got a picture with resolution loss!
So, I think that now would be here about my objection clear.
Antwort von WoWu:
Since when can because the HV30 1080p? Have I missed out because what?
@ Meggs not the reading time is 40 ms but the integration time, so the exposure process! These are the half-time both fields simultaneously exposed. this makes the interlaced method precisely as "bright". Thus each field is exposed 40ms, to put it in your terminology, but the integration phases of the respective fields are shifted by 20ms each other. The three shifts needed for reading a few ns. (and I must look exactly how much synonymous).
Huhu ... 2.07 Mpix .... this is probably what is called Canon FULL? Can you ever expect what is being called after the Bayer mask on full screen? Did I actually skipped somewhere that there is in the details of what 1080p? Sure you can give me as a reference, where the stands.
Antwort von domain:
Your arguments are basically all right, Bruno just to set it late to s.einer place where the essential basis so the people are talking about here, apparently not even exist, namely, a full-fledged progressive output image with the real 1080 lines. The presence of such material appears after the date shown in F and PF-mode various Canon models until further notice as given. The theme is synonymous only interesting because various filmmakers actually filmed in that format, and thereby accept nichtwissen probably quite a decrease in image quality or have been accepted. The question can not be resolved by argument but only more relevant, the opposite demonstrative test pictures, which we are still waiting.
Antwort von deti:
My opinion: 25 frames per second are simply too little, no preference on what type they are incurred and 50p without a camera is no longer state of the art.
Deti
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Quote:
Did I actually skipped somewhere that there is in the details of what 1080p? Sure you can give me as a reference, where the stands.
Typical childish question. Who can read, is clearly superior!
Quote:
The question can not be resolved by argument but only more relevant, the opposite demonstrative test pictures, which we are still waiting.
Typical childish claim. In 1080-25p there are no losses, there are 1080 lines available, not only 540 as 25F!
Quote:
My opinion: 25 frames per second are simply too little, no preference on what type they are incurred and 50p without a camera is no longer state of the art.
1080-50p I would in a consumer camera, of course, much rather, however, there are not synonymous, and thus is currently nothing outdated. Nevertheless, 1080-25p for me many advantages. You see problems with H-pans or transversely moving objects in front of the camera? Well, then you have to be staged to prepare well for such a recording, but the professionals should be able to understand and implement!
Antwort von domain:
Question from the Internet:
Pal 25p basically records the same data for field one and field two of each frame.
WHat I was asking about is does the bulk A1 horizontally bandwidth when running "frame" mode.
Answer: Vertical. It does lose some compared to ideal conditions, but when compared with HV20/30 shots s.shown by Taky, A1 is still IMHO better or on par s.least resolution-wise.
Other Answer: Yup .. I read some sites stating Canon F mode cause about 12% of vertical loss. However, when I compare the output XH-A1 30F to HV30 30P, I found the image from A1 is sharper.
How should it please come to the vertical generally attested resolution loss? Actually, unthinkable in a truly progressive read-out picture. On the contrary, without de-interlacing, a single frame would even look much better.
Antwort von B.DeKid:
I'll tell everything again MOGELPACKUNG
Do you know what full picture of Canon generated ...... My 1014XL and up to 18 while the second
Lol ......... the real silly season thread gone bad.
HDV 1440 x 1080/50i MiniDV 720 x 576/50i MiniDV 720 x 576/25F HDV 1440 x 1080/25p
Antwort von WoWu:
No. Canon specifications ... but again what is expected to s.Output .... Therefore, other cameras could synonymous got a lot more .. See JVC. At Canon, there is always only "FULL" .... again as a creation ...
And it is much more synonymous with Canon, if you want to read. Even here at slashcam that has been chewed through 1,000 times already.
Antwort von WoWu:
Thanks for the note, but that, as (; I work), I could still remember, synonymous describes the basic of (, P) was still familiar to me. Also the fact that CMOS was no real surprise to both, but where it stands now, that makes the camera 1080p and what is actually (from the ominous PF format, or whatever that meant) has become, to which it went on here? Finally, we do not talk about psf and what you would like to describe, would indeed PSF. So why do not you write psf Canon? So, old questions ... Summer Theme halt.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Well, since you have to work through you wait, yes it is enough to accessible information. A good paper has written about this time A. Wunderlich.
The nice thing about HDV (; is 25P) that I mix it in an arbitrary 1080i-Project with i-can clips without any quality loss, since it is compatible. The advantage for me is stop the scalability without stairs and deinterlacing, and clean-and Keyinarbeit masks, etc. Let's be honest, how often someone rushes in the monkey pace across my camera or when I'm already Reißschwenks as travel and tour videographers. If anything, I have next to 1080i recording option and even at 1080p I can do with a bit of thought synonymous in this forum something against the dreaded jerk. No, I'm quite happy with the 1080p option my HV30, especially in lowlight synonymous. When will there be for consumer cameras, 1080-50p, no idea!
Antwort von Axel:
"domain" wrote:
Yup .. I read some sites stating Canon F mode cause about 12% of vertical loss. However, when I compare the output XH-A1 30F to HV30 30P, I found the image from A1 is sharper.
How should it please come to the vertical generally attested resolution loss? Actually, unthinkable in a truly progressive read-out picture. On the contrary, without de-interlacing, a single frame would even look much better.
It was often claimed (; not refuted Of Canon) and (never, of Canon is not synonymous), that ultimately a kind of deinterlacing is interposed. The first declared the resolution loss compared oe "i" and the "fact" (; proof follows) that a proportional motion blur in the "F" mode is achieved at 1/50tel, according 1/25tel case of true "p". The increased motion blur with the same lock time as "i" (; see first photo series, Attachment of WoWu) could very well be the result of a Pictureüberblendung. The loss of resolution in the static designs include adaptive DI out (and here there would be) no loss, other synonymous bobbing (and 50%), which completely Stillimage for "p"-looking motion blur - not typical for blending spirits shadow - can s.The -- think at least in the postpro - very time-consuming method of generation of an intermediate image, but only after analysis of pixel positions is (; ReelSmartFieldsKit about removing means "fields") and therefore can not be the most sought. DI latter method is the undisputed qualitatively better way than 'F' to turn the HDV2 an A1 interlaced and "i" artifact-free video. But there are some reasons not to go this route: 1. Apart of the - verschmerzbaren in the interest of quality - computing time required, the deinterlacer seems a not inter-frame-based codec, so as not to produce strange artifacts in places such as "clean cut" motion blur too. This may be due to a synonymous operator error on my part, but overall the subsequent effect on the DI workflow (for, eg, the use of synonymous mind) masks or keys. 2. With the 1440 horizontal resolution would HDV2 way or a tortured compromise. But I think even s.diese, and of course, not synonymous s.1080. I will try to split the test chart so that I can determine the actual horizontal and vertical resolution. Every owner wants a camera that offers the "full" resolution. That "some" do not reach the small nominal FullHD AVCHD camcorder that says much about the quality of the picture, but I put it ahead. Ultimately, the appearance is one of the image, and should the existence of "p" already understood as an advantage. Furthermore, it is mEsklügsten to look at each camera as fundamentally bad, that is, become aware of their weaknesses in order to circumvent them. The resolution is as a relatively neutral position. Absolute no-go should be to give away resolution. Who the other hand, his heart is s.1080, where it is broken. Even the relatively high-priced EX'e not errreichen it, as I shall try to show. 3. A test chart is related to an intuitive feel judged as an autopsy to talk with a live person. An "i" picture was for lovers of moving images has always been a nuisance, is now with the extinction of the traditional "i" Television is no longer acceptable. While at the wreaths and container in a coffin in the mortuary sobering clarity and sharpness come to light, can (already a clean pan with the funeral, and a of
Antwort von deti:
Enclosed is an ISO-crop at 1 / 250 in 50i and PF25 of a Canon HF100. Again, a significant loss of sharpness in PF25 mode is observed. As a video here:
Deti
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Does not look good with you In my case, not to be in the 25P to 50i Comparison.
Antwort von Atom:
Now I was really curious and have tried it themselves. Conclusion: Can not see any difference (; test with XH-A1, 25F, and 1080i at Manual 1 / 50, 2.8) When sitting to see the sharpness of both equally well.
Antwort von B.DeKid:
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
Does not look good with you ......
Come on Peter, Bruno, in your experience in the field of photography and the free time you seem to have us do a test chart picture-in times i and p, under studio lighting conditions without UV filter, not because of behind the tripod and s . go and create vibrations.
And there's nothing going times with Camera Raw or Lightroom / Bridge / PS about it.
Why have not really done yet? I had already made s.deiner point 3 days ago.
Do you know why that is actually relatively discuss about the issue - not as a development engineer - to .... because the recordings of most petrol are not normal users anyway influenced by the let the clips in your story better.
MfG B. DeKid
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
I've set some time ago on my page. No, no waste of Luminnzauflösung at 25P identifiable as DeKid!
Antwort von B.DeKid:
Well then I'm so happy and am glad that I apparently was right when I have often recommended as a beginner to someone the HV30 camcorder with peak values, right?
MfG B. DeKid
Since I like to have time to hope that soon get out of the successors of the XH A1 and XL H1 ;-)!!! On the Canon there are just as much trouble as the HV series.
Antwort von WoWu:
Kid ... But you has ... Needs to determine differences in presentation, are visible in the synonymous differences. It's like with the bending ... Bonsai for cameras with lenses, the lens resolution is often so poor that diffraction effects are no longer visible. So apparently they do not occur. It was only on cameras and lenses, which are actually able to identify such differences, they are held only visible synonymous. This sometimes tempted to keep these cameras for "nachbesserungswürdig" too. To that extent you wish such a "repair" rather not. So it's all relative. :-)
Antwort von Meggs:
"B. DeKid" wrote:
Since I like to have time to hope that soon get out of the successors of the XH A1 and XL H1 ;-)!!! On the Canon there are just as much trouble as the HV series.
That there are already. But with the XH A1S they seem geschludert again the same way. Just as the time when your XL1S.
Antwort von B.DeKid:
The s versions yes intressieren not really ..... NO, and therefore to the XL1, the XL1s has been overtaken wessentlich ... but what is of the XH A1 and XL H1 versions can not say.
MfG B. DeKid
Antwort von Meggs:
"B. DeKid" wrote:
NO, and therefore to the XL1, the XL1s has been overtaken wessentlich ... but what is of the XH A1 and XL H1 versions can not say.
Oh, how do you know ...???
Antwort von B.DeKid:
Since that time I XL ddie 1 very closely monitored and have then got the XL1s purchased. For XL2 gabs nen then again GIANT leap. Comparison views to the specifications of the XL1 and then XL1s times XH A1 vs. XH A1s, the only option for them as the XL H1 Field and studio version then comb out (; with the Erscheinehn XL H1s - which is synonymous Priced noticeable (e) - even when your gabs no significant updates.
One XL H "2" and one XH A "2" will be determined once again inspire the market, almost steal the show Sony's EX.
The APS C chips are now well ausgereitzt include in the sector Stillimage synonymous in my mind, a clear favorite for a sequence model. Canon would not rely on full frame sensors ala 5D because the amount of data that can be obtained by not actually processed.
But oh well it all just a glance into the crystal ball, we'll see it - but Canon will remain true and what fine handicrafts, assume I'm hard times.
MfG B. DeKid
And yes it would be synonymous even have time for me to jump on the HD train ... even afford my XL Cams really good service - especially since I use so they do not earn the money but rather privately with games. About something new I'd be glad anyway. ;-)
Antwort von Meggs:
"B. DeKid" wrote:
Comparison views to the specifications of the XL1 and then XL1s times XH A1 vs. XH A1s, the only option for them as the XL H1 Field and studio version then comb out (; with the Erscheinehn XL H1s - which is synonymous Priced noticeable (e) - even when your gabs no significant updates.
While I look at your grammar, not through it, but I suppose you want to bring with this sentence reflects the fact that the A1S is virtually identical with the A1. I admit, if you read through the Slashcam-test, one gets the impression synonymous. Videoaktiv contrast, emphasized the increased functionality. The A1S has improved as 3, at the same time, independently, s.Lens-use setting rings for aperture, zoom and focus. The velocity of these rings is more controllable. The XLR inputs are independently controlled. That and a few more subtleties in the audio range, and improved selective noise reduction, I had the 300 ¬ extra charge for the A1S worth. Ich habs me carefully considered synonymous, one can still buy both new.
Antwort von B.DeKid:
Let's talk now about grammar or technique? -)
My perso. Meihnung was at the s version ... the one that brought on the market or bring in a drawer because even put a better idea they wanted to throw but not to the immature market.
But sach come back to the topic .... you mean film because with the cine mode XHA1s your ... is perhaps even better than the XH A1 ;-)
MfG B. DeKid
PS; s.leben stop now I already own the silly season ... tztztz.
Antwort von Meggs:
"B. DeKid" wrote:
Let's talk now about grammar or technique? -)
Thou art more than I about grammar.
"B. DeKid" wrote:
But sach come back to the topic .... you mean film because with the cine mode XHA1s your ... is perhaps even better than the XH A1 ;-)
I'm honestly not gotten around to. But even if I tried it, I can draw no A1 Comparison, because I have no A1.
Antwort von Meggs:
I am now finally been added, Buckley, a test chart.
The video, which synonymous 50i with 1 / 25 sec, 25F with 1 / 25 sec, and 25F with 1 / 125 sec compares to whoever wants to download:
So I see no resolution loss at 25F, is probably s.meinen eyes. Although 50% loss synonymous, I would see ....?
Antwort von Meggs:
Synonymous, at least I can see no significant loss of resolution. Whoever takes the trouble, and the 75 mb video down invites, as seen ussynonymous 50i with 1 / 25 sec Again, I can detect no major differences in the sharp, in contrast to test domains with its FX1. I'm sure that is always about the same aperture value was set (, 6). Therefore, logically the clip 50i 1 / 25 lighter than 50i 1 / 50. That is not in domain name case. If the aperture at 1 / 25 high closes, the loss of sharpness, therefore, are synonymous (; diffraction). My test chart was not a virgin, but a Google image search found with the test chart a Panasonic TZ7. All high-resolution test charts, which I have gefünden were results of a test photos. The clips I've captured with HDV split into a 50i Premiere Pro 2.0 Project import, then as a progressive MPEG2 rendered. If I am the original clip (; interlaced or progressive) with the VCL Media Player look, I can also see no major differences. The exported frames I have left as they are, therefore, 1440 x 1080, so the egg-shaped circles. I wanted to change anything. I usually do filme no test charts, but real pictures. In the images seen in the F-mode very well, rather better than the 50i recording. But we had already. I'm assuming that the test pictures of WoWu actually stem of an A1. If this is so, then Canon is synonymous with the A1S improves the frame mode. In the online manual of the A1 is at the output via FireWire F-mode. In the printed manual of A1S is s.dieser point P. But that is speculation.
Antwort von Ficeduld:
I have the XH-A1 and movies for years only 25F, but not because of chatter own tests and compare .... So: am quite of your opinion. As far as my input relating to.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Quote:
50i imported into Premiere Pro 2.0 Project
And then a Stillimage made one field? Or you are you sure that PP has made 2.0 Your Picture of two interlaced fields deinterlaced?
Antwort von Meggs:
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
And then a Stillimage made one field? Or you are you sure that PP has made 2.0 Your Picture of two interlaced fields deinterlaced?
I am assuming that Premiere does a Stillimage of 2 interlaced fields. When you see the movement really well, so we exported frames from s.besten rel. motionless scenes.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
You have to convince you to stop and do it correctly.
Antwort von Meggs:
You so you can download the MPEG, which I linked, since it looks the same. Just as in the original clips on the camcorder.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
No, I do not need!
Antwort von Ficeduld:
Wen interested in a Stillimage? The resolution in the finished product, ie one video yet. And that has delivered Meggs.
Antwort von Axel:
"F" appears to look like the A1 as successor. It can be expected of any tester to evaluate all the functions properly, especially not with a net creation of Canon. Even people who can call themselves experts not know everything. In the otherwise excellent book "Shut Up and Shoot will be made in relation to multiple cameras do not quite accurate information. It is best if you believe your own eyes.
Nevertheless: Can it be that I give myself a test card with Illustrator has built, because everything that is downloaded, obviously a bad scan?
