| PAL / NTSC <-> HD
Next page goetz47:
November 2006
Hello, I did despite extensive studies of forums and product pages is still a major uncertainty about this issue in a specific technical problem:
My camcorder has to be at the same time be in the NTSC-PAL-like "world" used to be, ie a recording and the same should be made on the television sets and PC's both standards can be played back. This is conventional, to a corresponding set Ausgabefomat equipment / mW output formats are not (I know the different lines of figures etc). The camcorder with HD format to make so far in the technical specs no indications (SonyHDR-SR1/UX1) or it says "Interface: AV (NTSC / PAL selectable) Video (S-Video, Component, Composite)" (Sanyo Xacti HD 1A). Are the HD format, so to speak, PAL / NTSC-neutral? Is there somewhere in a conclusive and unambiguous representation?
Further question: Did the HD format problems with playback on conventional TVs (convertible to 16.9)?
Who will help an ( "on a high level of confusion" ;-)) laity? Thanks in advance!
Reply beiti:
The difference in PAL / NTSC is actually a relic from the analog times. But what has remained synonymous with the new HD systems, the difference between 50 and 60 Hz (ie in the U.S. are synonymous with HD 60 fields per second, in Europe 50). The problems of the standard conversion are still the same. A universal format, there is not and can not technically give.
If you have an SD device (eg, non-HD Television) connects to the European HD camcorder PAL and from the American NTSC camcorder. A universal solution would require a conversion 50Hz <> 60Hz require, and that is simply difficult.
If you produce for both continents want, you have to select 60 Hz. The HD-Ready Television in Europe, all synonymous 60 Hz play it. However, there are too few unverselle player, for example, a 50Hz-HD camcorder at 60Hz not play films (with few exceptions).
You should be on HD-DVD or BlueRay wait. They are very likely to be suitable for all standards, like DVD players today.
At least the European DVD players can play NTSC synonymous. Nevertheless, no worldwide Universal NTSC format. The uncertainty is so far is that not all NTSC Television understand, or that a DVD player, sometimes only to be properly adjusted to a PAL-NTSC television play. If one region code-free NTSC DVDs distributed in Germany, one can not assume that all owners of DVD players at once, this really can play. S.Ende remains, as long as one distributed in SD, the possibility of using the standard conversion.
It is hoped that this with the HD systems change, as HD television is certainly not limited to 50Hz. Then we can here in Germany synonymous different format, such as the United States in the usual format for 24fps movies sampled. This eliminates the need for movies in PAL territory faster to run, which had always been a compromise was stupid.
Reply goetz47:
I bins itself once again: Thanks for the prompt and detailed reply, it helps me a very next.
I had the same question in parallel s.den support of the mentioned company Sanyo skillfully who immediately by telephone (:-)))) has reported, the response coincides with the complement of beiti and for their product (Xacti HD1A, http: / / www.sanyo-xacti.de/produkte/sanyo_product.asp?Xacti=HD1A): The camera takes with 30 fps to NTSC so close. The camera offers the ability to output to PAL, ie 25 images, switch, camera then internally converted, what, like Sanyo says, requires that five images are rausgeschnitten, which in turn could lead to rapid pans as something "jerky "are. Playback on modern TVs and HD on the PC was totally PAL / NTSC-system-neutral and therefore no problem. The conversion, I have yet to None other HD consumer camera view and it seems to me at the moment to be the best solution for my problem of "wandering between two worlds" - and vszukunftsfest if an HD television in our living room synonymous lost .
goetz47
Reply beiti:
The conversion, I have yet to None other HD consumer camera view and it seems to me at the moment to be the best solution for my problem of "wandering between two worlds" - and vszukunftsfest if an HD television in our living room synonymous lost . I have my doubts about the image quality of Sanyo solution is concerned. (Read times the current video assets.)
Regardless, I see no real advantage in the internal conversion, the Sanyo describe that makes you like everyone CyberHome DVD player (for 40 EUR) with any PAL or NTSC DVD.
The proprietary format of Sanyo is compatible with nothing and must be passed (ie if not directly from the camcorder is performed) is always something else to be converted.
Perhaps you should specify your request so that you can recommend a specific workflow can.
- Are you about DVDs for relatives in Germany and the United States to create? Then you could in 50 or 60Hz and record each in the "alternative" according normgewandelte DVDs. (Good moderate standard conversion software still looks better than the omission of individual images, the Sanyo does.)
- Are you about to create movies that you own onto your TV sets here in the U.S. and play it? Then you can calmly take 60Hz (ie the device in the U.S. to buy), because the German on HD TVs (and synonymous many PAL TVs with NTSC playback option) easily without conversion is playable.
- Does it matter that you are filming with the camcorder and then s.beliebigen (!) Television sets in Germany and the U.S. want to be able to connect, for example, in the hotel or at some people at home? In this case (but only synonymous) have been integrated Sanyo standard conversion of a purpose.
Reply Markus:
Then you can calmly take 60Hz (ie the device in the U.S. to buy) ...
To what price range is it the same? There are synonymous in this HDV camcorder, the choice of PAL (50 Hz) or NTSC (60 Hz) record. Then the issue is synonymous guarantee none more. ;-)
Reply goetz47:
Hello beiti and Markus, until once again thank you that I accept with much patience! :-))
Purpose: s.Uni son in the U.S. should want for themselves and films for its liiieben parents and friends in DTL. can make.
Mark: 1 Mean consumer segment (500-900 ¬). 2. If there is not more to the play than on either host option?
beiti: Finally a presentation as I had searched in vain: If I dasunddas wants to do what I need then. The dream is, of course, your last option, but only with considerable Qualitätszugeständnissen achieved, as I have learned. The first alternative is perfectly feasible, if not of the cost of a conversion program (which, did you have any recommendation?) Is tilted. The second alternative is probably more critical at the moment because it (yet) s.HD-enabled TV devices problem.
Synonymous Thank you for your very helpful comment to Sayo System!
If I understand correctly it is: In each case a (future fixed) HD camcorder, certainly in the U.S. (cheaper anyway to one U.S. dollars with 1:32 ¬) with NTSC standard to buy.
Reply beiti:
If I understand correctly it is: In each case a (future fixed) HD camcorder, certainly in the U.S. (cheaper anyway to one U.S. dollars with 1:32 ¬) with NTSC standard to buy. Not in every case, those in your budget goes HD with nothing.
I would also be grateful for the customs check, whether your son without the camcorder inch-and-payment of import VAT in Germany may introduce depends usof the duration of his stay in the USA. Otherwise, the import may be as expensive as the purchase in Germany.
S.Uni son in the U.S. should want for themselves and films for its liiieben parents and friends in DTL. can make. Okay. I see even the longer-term focus play in Germany.
My proposal, taking into account your budget:
Purchase a PAL-DV camcorder in Germany. I hope your son has a computer with Firewire and DVD Burners, where he can play the movie on it and for the German kinship DVDs. If the films over at the Television to watch, he still bought a cheap DVD player (eg CyberHome said, there are synonymous in the U.S.), the PAL DVD as NTSC when playing back there.
If your son really even the desire to distribute films s.amerikanische friends, he can still convert software to NTSC and NTSC DVDs burn. (Convert PAL> NTSC is better than vice versa, because the higher PAL Resolutionhat.)
Since your son probably longer again comes back to Germany, then you have all the material in the same 50 Hz
If it should be HD, should you budget to increase by 50%. In this case, you have to think about 60 Hz.
Reply wolfgang:
Well, the professional version of the FX1 is well in 50 as synonymous in 60 Hz. Is holding the question of whether the budget of her imagined. Otherwise it would be really almost cheaper to buy 2 devices - one for the PAL world, one for the NTSC world ...
From the conversion of PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL, I advise more - that is software None really good, simply because each (!) Intermediate image must be calculated.
You might incidentally synonymous this problem at the level of the DVD player solve: PAL standalone can normally NTSC to PAL TVs, while in the standalone NTSC PAL material is not usually play it. Means an NTSC device in this special situation, buy, cut than NTSC, and NTSC as to create a disc.
Steer clear of the current AVCHD devices, if immediately after and immediately want to edit. Currently there is no single cut solution which can. They're announced, but should still take - and could, depending on the technical basis of the solution - rather strong PCs need synonymous if the gegenwäritg it is still unclear.
Reply beiti:
Well, the professional version of the FX1 is well in 50 as synonymous in 60 Hz. Is holding the question of whether the budget of her imagined. Yes, the excellent fit given me the budget of 500 to 900 euros. : (
Moreover, a camcorder, of between 50 and 60 Hz is selectable for the given requirements completely useless. It will be yes the same films in both camps can be played.
From the conversion of PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL, I advise more - that is software None really good, simply because each (!) Intermediate image must be calculated. PAL> NTSC with Canopus ProCoder Express does not foul out. The intermediate images are generated by excess glare. In fast movements are still a bit jerky and with pause button you will see double-contours, but is not bad and will of most people not notice. Peaceful images look as original NTSC out.
NTSC> PAL looks worse. The bucking by modifying the frame rate is similar, but the grossed-up Resolutiondes NTSC picture is never as original as PAL, is not synonymous with unmoving Picture.
So if you in SD-area standards must convert, then prefer PAL> NTSC. From HD, it is no preference, because since the resolutions are identical and anyway in both SD standards to be downscaled.
Reply goetz47:
Sincere thanks to all helpers! At least now I'm on an even higher level ;-))) confused! No, I know now, what alternatives I have and what I consider. I must decide itself - synonymous over the budget.
Beautiful, stress-free decision and holidays to you all!
Reply kuuan:
Purpose: s.Uni son in the U.S. should want for themselves and films for its liiieben parents and friends in DTL. can make.
The son is a NTSC camera in the U.S. to buy! If they edit the films and DVDs to Germany but wants to send all cases to better a miniDV.
I have my cam in Japan, a NTSC purchased. I have never seen my movies converted to PAL, never had occasion to do so. All PAL television, synonymous small cheap devices whether in Europe, India, Nepal and Thailand have my Picture NTSC auto discovered and easily, for me, without noticeable loss of quality play. The only problem especially in PAL countries, while just over 2 years ago was when I caught a $ 50 DVD player in the menu on NTSC had to change the picture because he agreed it does not auto created. Conversely, however, understand the PAL NTSC television signal is often not and it is NTSC, if you will, the international format and in this case are strongly preferred.
I was due to a similar situation for NTSC decided, I'll show my films mainly in PAL countries, but synonymous in Japan, an NTSC country.
Reply PowerMac:
This discussion we had ever. HD camcorder s.Besten are suitable, one might both PAL / NTSC as the final. A SonyZ1 is very good.
Reply kuuan:
This discussion we had ever. HD camcorder s.Besten are suitable, one might both PAL / NTSC as the final. A SonyZ1 is very good.
When the 5000 wants to get out perfectly.
and: how is the son of the HD films over to Germany? - Not meant cynically, I wonder, quite honestly, because I'm not a great specialist.
However, I am sometimes about the problem with the user have NTSC amused. I suppose the most of you have never had to do with NTSC since I had no problem with that although I primarily in PAL countries thus live.
Reply beiti:
This discussion we had ever. HD camcorder s.Besten are suitable, one might both PAL / NTSC as the final. A SonyZ1 is very good. The Z1 is not better than any other HD-Cam, because they are either in 60 or 50 takes - which is totally uninteresting, if the same film in both areas will show. Since synonymous it does a much cheaper 60-Hz Cam.
Reply PowerMac:
I said no, the Z1 was s.Besten suitable.
Reply nightworker:
... when the same movies in both areas will show. Since synonymous it does a much cheaper 60-Hz Cam.
exactly!
My camcorder has to be at the same time be in the NTSC-PAL-like "world" used to be, ie a recording and the same should be made on the television sets and PC's both standards can be played back
Each camera is available in NTSC and PAL countries and countries use NTSC, recording on their TVs and PCs both standards played.
This is conventional, to a corresponding set Ausgabefomat equipment / mW output formats are not
because you are mistaken, NTSC goes.
Each NTSC miniDV cam enough these claims fully.
An HD Cam is safe because of the much higher toll Bildaufloesung, and you want so you ev synonymous to buy an HD television, then this gives a super picture.
The processing of the material, however, is difficult. HDV Sonylaesst of itself with a top computer quite properly edit the new AVCHD format, I think, as good as did not. The Filmed or any Machined can not be written to DVD, but you need blue ray or HD-DVD.
Soll's so easy and practical, rather than synonymous financially very costly to my recommendation is clearly an NTSC miniDV cam, maybe cheap in the U.S. purchased.
fuer's further studies in English:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/
http://www.pana3ccduser.com/index.php
in order to find your cam:
http://camcorderinfo.resultspage.com/display.php?p=D&ts=v3
Reply wolfgang:
So if you consistently durchdenkt would be all those really stupid that a PAL HDV device to buy. According to the statements made here can be so anyway NTSC HDV to play anywhere.
[quote = "beiti"]
Canopus ProCoder Express does not foul out. The intermediate images are generated by excess glare.
This is but a specialty of the PCEs that are not necessarily of other tools may be expected. I have conversion attempts of HDV1 of NTSC to PAL is not seen good results (but not with the PCE). And actually sit close to 30 fps but at other times, when the 25 fps. Since I am rather skeptical - I know people who have their NTSC verauft devices because they have room in PAL were not satisfied. But perhaps the mistake is yes.
In the case HDV2 is insoferne simpler than in SD because the Resolutionsowohl in the PAL as NTSC synonymous in the world is always 1440x1080 - for SD, it is different. This simplifies the conversion course.
So the HDV editing is no longer particularly difficult, not even on a middle-class PC. AVCHD editing, however, is still unresolved on any NLE.
Reply kuuan:
So if you consistently durchdenkt would be all those really stupid that a PAL HDV device to buy. According to the statements made here can be so anyway NTSC HDV to play anywhere.
No ...
if you refer to my statements is a mistake before and I must make it clear: I have only respect playability based on SD cams, not HDV. With HDV, I have no experience and can be about their playability in PAL and NTSC do not make statements.
So: If you need to film in PAL and NTSC countries see and buy an SD camera is NTSC then the format of choice. There was a thread here in this forum made me convinced, see: http://www.slashcam.de/info/NTSC---PAL---Mini- DV-68374.html
then bought me a NTSC camera and have never regretted it, quite the contrary.
If I understand correctly beiti seems it is synonymous HDV but similar behavior: A 60HZ PAL devices is to be played without problems but not a 50Hz NTSC country. Is this so?
I want goetz43 HDV synonymous in no way excuses. He seems very well informed and therefore probably knows what other investments will be needed so that makes sense HDV. Because one SD compared with HDV editing much easier and can be especially synonymous can write to DVDs, and on virtually any computer, but I believe that SD a beginner much more fun than HDV. A switch to HD later, I would recommend if it is clear which format prevails, it editing programs, DVD recorders, etc. there. Probably it will not be HDV.
and yet a very good, English-language forum:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/index.php
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