Newsmeldung von slashCAM: ProRes SD Review of rob - 18 Feb 2008 15:56:00 Interesting assessment of the quality of Apple's ProRes codec - but this time the SD version. To ProRes HD is already a lot has been published - to SD, however, less ...
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Antwort von WoWu:
Sometimes one wonders really what kind of people are they that something for free ...
From DVCPro (8bit) in 10-bit uncompressed ProRes422
What once was 8 bits, it can never again be 10 bit. It is not synonymous better by the fact that you take in 8-bit, 10 bit working.
Quite the contrary, the lack of artificial colors are replaced and the error is called diffusion (dithering).
So this is compared to a true 10 bit signal instead of a significant impairment, because in 10 bit more precise calculation can be done. When a transfer is not.
And even if one with a 10 bit signal would have worked, but of a tape would have been the norm, the use of 10 bit no real advantages, because with the poor signal to noise ratio in a linear color space exceed the banding is achieved.
Only with a signal that comes from the array and again, the array is 10 bit sense.
Really shows the need not synonymous, because why be a codec such different effects in SD than in HD?
A pity about the time ....
Antwort von wolfgang:
What once was 8 bits, it can never again be 10 bit. It is not synonymous better by the fact that you take in 8-bit, 10 bit working.
Quite the contrary, the lack of artificial colors are replaced and the error is called diffusion (dithering).
So this is compared to a true 10 bit signal instead of a significant impairment, because in 10 bit more precise calculation can be done. When a transfer is not.
Certainly can not play 10 bit from 8 bits to be - and undoubtedly will remain the signal quality is always worse than if really true 10 bit would.
It is only the question whether the 10-bit calculation is more accurate but, if one synonymous bit out of 8 - as an alternative in 8-bit to be expected. Some turn around for the final edition of 8bit HDV material to be.
I am only the step 10bit -> 8bit -> 10 bits is absurd. But it is synonymous of the 8bit -> 10 bits in the final edition?
Antwort von WoWu:
If you are 8 bits in 10 bit bringest, the missing colors replaced .... these are the many small points, the colors from the surrounding colors calculate ... Dithering is called das
In MPEG-based formats is aggravated by the fact that the encoder additional movements are forecast and a return run outcome looks worse than the 8 bit source material.
No, no, it can not accurately be calculated, which previously was inaccurate ... because I can so many intermediate steps artificially purely reckon, as I want ... it is now time not more accurate than the 8 bit format.
Only the files are huge ... So good for the record producer ... NULL gestuffed with everything that I constructed out again afterwards.
In addition, your band, Extended Dynamics the noise did not reach you and bit 10 bit long in the noise lying, with all the disadvantages of the addition and brings the picture into your pure is to be expected. I know only the D5 and HDCAM SR, the ever support.
And if the author of a final format ProRes422 out, let me look at the DVD show, with the I s.einem TV can play or television editor who told me the format as a delivery format decreases.
Antwort von wolfgang:
I suspect we are talking to each other but - my fault, I had little say what I mean. You can 8bit material synonymous with a higher accuracy - 10 bit - can be calculated - without going into 10 bit format in the target to go. This opportunity offers about Vegas, it seems to bring a higher quality, but is obviously something different than what I actually mean.
Antwort von Axel:
I suspect we are talking to each other but - my fault, I had little say what I mean. You can 8bit material synonymous with a higher accuracy - 10 bit - can be calculated - without going into 10 bit format in the target to go. This opportunity offers about Vegas, it seems to bring a higher quality, but is obviously something different than what I actually mean. This is called "floating". Does not matter if only one processing step is required. Bring
everything when multiple processing steps (color and brightness adjustments, effects) on 8-bit material and applied together to render.
Any amendment to the original pixels at 8-bit looks like a VHS copy with generation. The - already at 256 "steps" Limited - Information for each correction pruned. By floating the calculation when rendering in a deeper color, although the target codec only 8-bit is. The result: Even with 5, 6 applied to a clip effects is the Picture as finely nuanced as the original.
Floating can usAfterEffects, Shake and Color, - and seem to Vegas.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Axel
... but that is again a totally different pair of shoes. In Shake, AE and Motion synonymous refers exclusively to the rendering floating on the graphic. And for graphics, after the closing date for the array is synonymous makes sense. When transmitting on the carrier "tape" of course not ....
Video Editing is the Friday in the conventional sense, however, not made and only in the production of a (my 10), but usually 16 or 32 bit rendering, the video-picture one time to create the finished product included. But there will be no cut in the traditional sense so that, I use my footage in a different color do, do it there and then possibly again on tape off (mostly yes 8bit).
So the 16/32 floating is a graphics rendering application.
Antwort von wolfgang:
This is called "floating".
.... Floating can usAfterEffects, Shake and Color, - and seem to Vegas. True, I float as floating before her, and so heißts so synonymous in Vegas - thank Axel. The thing is a lot of computational intensive, na for the final edition of a HDV production can indeed make mans.
And of course, is something else than the upconversion of 8bit to 10bit.
Antwort von Rideck:
Also in Final Cut is the possibility that HDV material directly into the ProRes codec to capture which of course synonymous me a huge amount of data gives (about 60GB per tape), I am flexible, however, synonymous work. There are no Gemecker of Color and more I have of the GOP structure of the MPG2 adopted and can have multiple generations of loss-free work. So of the above-mentioned drawbacks, I can from the practical experience, fortunately did not confirm.
Greeting Rideck
PS: Yes I am speaking of the HD version of ProRes
Antwort von WoWu:
And then what do you do after that?
Presumably it back into a GoP structure bring back either as MPEG4 or MPEG2 or a beta or, or, or.
And probably synonymous back to 8 bits.
In addition, you have the whole wavelet artifacts additionally searched in your material .... Timingunschärfen etc. Because ProRes422 is nothing other than a derivative JPEG2000 .... but it costs nothing, unlike the MPEG format, the license costs ...
And the artifacts in the transfer to other color spaces are now no matter whether they are or not .... if you do not see is the best a question of monitoring ...
Antwort von dash snow:
Of course I bring it back again often in MPG2, eg for a DVD production. Also, I see MPEG artifacts, which were already there, but I can not sichtbarenProbleme with wavelet artifacts in one of my productions and confirm that is synonymous not s.schlechten Monitoring! But if you color, motion and Co. are using, you know for sure the benefits of a ProRes workflow. Also will be material for company presentations, screenings and short film for me is no longer in a MPG format brought back, but of the plate, where do I do this ... then after that!
Greeting Rideck
Antwort von Axel:
... and can have multiple generations of loss-free work. @ Rideck
@ Wolfgang
HDV is definitely not the codec of choice, but with a simple interface without requiring corrections or without compositing the images are quite acceptable. There would be no point, which probably says Wolfgang, before the actual final output any format conversions carried out, insofar as the outcome is not better but worse. The contests None. Even with a simple color correction, there is no need. Perhaps Wolfgang so sensible, that is to be limited.
HDV abuse you but as raw material, which is still working through many, as some of us are not able to choose otherwise, you quickly realize how this stuff goes from the glue.
Since ProRes is already a compromise. Nobody can claim that the results were better then HDV with any conversion artifacts already confessed.
