I have now shifted into a HD camcorder (; SonyHDR)-HC3.
You have gained you any HD camcorder, but an HDV camcorder. HD has nothing to do, which are completely different worlds.
Matthias
Antwort von PowerMac:
The latter is clearly wrong. The debate ran in usschon finalcutpro.de forum. Even conservative editors now proudly accept the fact that HD is by definition all about EDTV. HDV is just one of many HD formats that suffers from low data rate s.einer added. Nevertheless, HDV, HD synonymous. HDV and HD are not opposite positions, as many professionals want to represent you.
Antwort von Quadruplex:
"Anonymous" wrote:
You have gained you any HD camcorder, but an HDV camcorder. HD has nothing to do, which are completely different worlds.
Bullshit.
Antwort von thedirector:
"PowerMac" wrote:
Nevertheless, HDV, HD synonymous. HDV and HD are not opposite positions, as many professionals want to represent you.
HD is my only real HD, so HD-Cam or DNxHD disk-based. I would perhaps not ready to count DVCPro HD to do so, putting aside utmost concern. But HDV next is nothing but a marketing gimmick.
The reason why I react so angry on this topic: Client outside the media generally have no sufficient expertise to recognize the differences and make clear technical specifications. They are therefore increasingly overwhelmed of semi-professionals who offer them "HD" and in fact with a little twist HDV Camera.
Therefore, it is now important to identify the differences as clear as possible to explain to clients that are completely different things that have completely different therefore synonymous Prices. Otherwise, the rude awakening comes only months later, when it comes s.The acceptance and recognize the people that there has worked for a semi with Billigtechnik, with the shots they purely wanted it anyway.
I still maintain that HDV is a plague, the better should not have to be developed. It will take several years before the word has spread and the market is then cleaned up.
Matthias
Antwort von thedirector:
HDV is a plague?
not only because it meets your requirements?
HDV is a better DV. The resolution is higher, it is convenient and you CAN achieve great results.
When HDV is the plague, then DV is probably AIDS and all film-makers with smaller incomes are infected
Antwort von thedirector:
"Anonymous" wrote:
Contracting outside the media generally have no sufficient expertise to recognize the differences and make clear technical specifications. They are therefore increasingly overwhelmed of semi-professionals who offer them "HD" and in fact with a little twist HDV Camera.
What did you write as little to do with the practice. The contracting out of the media industry "means firms which may well have to obtain settlement offers. The market determines the price, and that "HD" is not set for a global company is has meanwhile spread. Die of you offended "semi-professionals" could use to the existing conditions no 2 / 3 "HD Cams, let alone film. It is fashioned such that s.end HD is an impeccable film. Paid is only after acceptance by the customers and improvements. No one can afford to cheat, too.
Colloquially synonymous technically correct and HD is simply understood as a distinction SD.
Only television can have the audacity to set the highest possible technical standards, but nevertheless the press always next to Prices.
The television - and even the public broadcasters - has historically been the first person responsible for this development.
Antwort von thedirector:
"Anonymous" wrote:
It will take several years before the word has spread and the market is then cleaned up.
This will probably not happen sooner.
Antwort von Eva Maier:
Hab ich nich cameras themselves do nothing, that's why the expressions confuse me HD or HDV something HDV is slightly larger (; 16:9) HD Hard Disk
??
/ Eva Maier
Antwort von Axel:
"Anonymous" wrote:
They are therefore increasingly overwhelmed of semi-professionals who offer them "HD" and in fact with a little twist HDV Camera.
Previously managed a movie company for which I worked (for the production of films for sale complete steel rolling mills; order - steel plants, of course, are not the movies - hundreds of millions) to 35mm, although the output format was 16mm or video. The company dealt with a highly professional end product. As it was possible to achieve with 16mm and finally, with U-Matic, the same result, has done it. The competitors who were first switched to the smaller size, has been bitterly criticized for a lack of professionalism at first. This topic is not new.
That leaves less HDV editing flexibility than other formats, is correct. It is used no less synonymous of professionals. As an amateur format, it will probably continue to exist. Of course, would be a less compressed, affordable format desirable, but the caravan seems to me in the opposite direction to draw (; AVCHD) ...
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Wikipedia:
High Definition Video, HDV short, stands for consumer high-definition digital video.
I do not care ... in fact the name of the dispute, had still a lot of joy s.HD video!
Antwort von Wiro:
"Eva Maier" wrote:
HDV is slightly larger (; 16:9), HD is hard drive??
This version will only confuse. Think we should agree to cut through hard disks with HDD (; Hard Disk Drive). HDV (; Digi Hi Def video), I regard as a subgroup of HD (; Hi Def), as I DV (; Digi Vid) as a subgroup of SD (; consider Standard Def). Greeting Wiro
Antwort von Eva Maier:
Thanks for the enlightenment was to become synonymous on Wikipedia (; because you can learn something) With it, you might like to mention that it is synonymous quite Tolles is Slashcam lexicon.
/ E
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Well, you see ...
Antwort von Eva Maier:
Hi Bruno
"You"
/ E
Antwort von jonas_id:
I think in the consumer sector is the development of AVCHD to HDV and a consequence of the development of the medium on which the films are mostly watched: The Television. Therefore, the development is likely to be no stopping synonymous. I think in the context of larger data there might be more synonymous to edit and format the output will not be as problematic as it is currently.
Antwort von thedirector:
"Anonymous" wrote:
HD is my only real HD, so HD-Cam or DNxHD disk-based. I would perhaps not ready to count DVCPro HD to do so, putting aside utmost concern. But HDV next is nothing but a marketing gimmick.
It may be that this is so for you. If you do not like HDV, your thing. What do you think about it, synonymous your business. Only you blinded your anger or even hatred of HDV, so that you get into a lower-class "Test" - even the ninth - is 12 or 13x all the latest HDV clutter threads with?
This behavior is surely an impertinence towards all those who want to discuss peacefully in a forum on HDV as a consumer format. Not all people are broadcast rights.
And it confused beginner in this subject, perhaps even you might believe, and do not recognize more then the possibility could make videos about their holiday synonymous with high resolution? The latter still much better to be in HDV than in SD.
Quote:
The reason why I react so angry on this topic: Client outside the media generally have no sufficient expertise to recognize the differences and make clear technical specifications. They are therefore increasingly overwhelmed of semi-professionals who offer them "HD" and in fact with a little twist HDV Camera.
and
Quote:
Otherwise, the rude awakening comes only months later, when it comes s.The acceptance and recognize the people that there has worked for a semi with Billigtechnik, with the shots they purely wanted it anyway.
What can the people here darfür in the forum? And jo mei, if your customers are so stupid? Could be. I think but certainly not for all customers. It might be synonymous in such a way that at least some simply want to pay much less and can - and then but often are satisfied with HDV? Perhaps you explain the difference in your Kundenaquise stop bad?
Quote:
Therefore, it is now important to identify the differences as clear as possible to explain to clients that are completely different things that have completely different therefore synonymous Prices.
Between working out and bashers - just as you do that in your 12 or 13 posts of the so-called "test report" - are worlds apart. Against the technically correct weaknesses of working out of a consumer format that has probably None. So if one already does, then please founded. Comparative images or data would have been even more convincing as a "review" with abysmally incorrect technical data.
Quote:
I still maintain that HDV is a plague, the better should not have to be developed. It will take several years before the word has spread and the market is then cleaned up.
Rather, I believe someone is talking out of you, who with the rapid technological development, simply can not handle. Does not understand how the higher Prices for production with professional equipment and warrant sale. Today, the more likely the amortization of its existing equipment kills, and the halt of this Page her love has its problems.
So I'd time to think about my price argument, and then take the Realtiäten note as they are halt. And think about who was caring for my achievements are just the potential customers. This is called a halt corporate action, there could s.dems wanting more.
[quote = "Anonymous"] [comparative images, or even measurement data would have been more convincing as abysmal a "LAPTOP" with incorrect technical data. [/ quote] Could it be that you are confusing me now? I have repeatedly expressed very clearly relating to HDV, that's true. However, I have never written anything that could be called "call display". That would be synonymous not possible, because I've never had an HDV camera in hand.
However, I have many times its suppliers, will need to edit HDV material, and it looked awful. For the people who turn to use such a small camera, tripod and have generally not evident in her viewfinder lacked control over the picture so that they (blurring, for example by nichtzoombaren Weitwinkelvorsatz) or Falschbelichtungen (; face outshines) do not notice and can avoid . Moreover, such people use their tapes several times, in which case the dropout rate increases substantially and no error correction more come along. Such perturbations are considerably worse than when on a Beta SP analog-tape time is a little spitting.
In addition, you can see, in my opinion, in each case that the Lenses do not have sufficient imaging performance, creating a recording with a good Camera and Lens in a broadcast standard definition looks a whole lot better than a recording with a small HDV camera.
HDV is certainly great for vacation or wedding films suitable, but not for professional purposes. The ban itself by the lack of mechanical quality which makes it impossible for an operation under harsh environmental conditions. Professional technology must operate at 100 percent and it should not be left s.end only 20 percent of usable material. It may be that you can increase by a very clean operation of this rate to 50 percent, but that is still too little.
Matthias
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Now you are exaggerating a lack of experience most powerful ... I have been hiking in the Grand Canyon du Verdon, there's nothing to complain or s.Qualität yield my amateur shots. I had to slow down when I cut myself, so that the work has not been too long of about 20 or 50% usable material. The inclusion of automatic working perfectly, no preference whether exposure or Focusierung. Pans are synonymous no problem ... And an experienced amateur photographer's eye knows very well where the limits are and where and how the Belichtungsautomatig manual is to intervene in the recording. I'm telling you as a hobbyist ...
Do not be so pretentious to be with the professional demeanor ... The professional has the better tool is as clear as Klößbrühe, but have no joy a wagon with Camera lambast behind me at the Corniche hike. And appropriate body stands with good stability, it is synonymous in the amateur field, or to make himself something to suit even itself ..
Antwort von Eva Maier:
Yes, the Grand Canyon, above and below it's freezing cold to go swimming or canoeing kan beautiful.
Great location, because every time I drive past the summer when it's going on to St Aygulf.
/ E
Antwort von Wiro:
"Matthias" wrote:
However, I have many times its suppliers, will need to edit HDV material, and it looked awful
Good, that's an experience that you've made. However, there are other synonymous Page: I have recently cut the makingof rotated and a small movie - the first time on HDV (; HC1). In order to quickly respond to individual situations can the bulk of the hand was rotated, only a few long shots and the interviews were from the tripod.
Sliced was plug on Premiere Pro with AspectHD. There was no spitting on the tape (; camcorder was brand new), nor was there an unusual amount of rejections because of exposure errors or inaccuracies. All normal and customary in the area. The cut itself was a pure pleasure.
The result has been restored to one on tape, on the other than SD-DVD burning. Both variants were projected via projector on canvas. The SD (, DVD) - with video was a good DV camera comparable (; reference JVC = 5000), which drew the audience a good HDV Picture enjoyed Aaaaah!.
Conclusion: I'm thrilled of HDV. Greeting Wiro
Antwort von PowerMac:
Matthias you criticize more mission-dumping, because HDV. You throw SD Broadcast Lens and professional cameraman on one page, however, HDV, prosumer, semi-professional and cheap to another page. That is not entirely correct. A good ausgebildetet, cameraman with making a good HDV camera very good pictures. The images can be better than its broadcast-SD. I know some of the latest professional music videos, which were all with HDV cameras (and partly with 35mm adapters) have been rotated and are distinguished by the measurement technology for Down's Kovertierung not of Digibeta.
Antwort von r.p. television:
Denote HDV plague, but I now find synonymous greatly exaggerated. With what degree is measured here? Certainly, if one has access to a professional HD CAM, HD CAM SR and last but not least DVC PRO HD and can be compared directly with the HDV footage, you will have a reason to criticize. Especially if you have to match at cheap twisted HDV with elaborately-produced HD CAM, you can get gray hair. Although I do not buy the camcorder on my technique. But often such material is not illuminated in the same effort, exposed or composed, it is blurred or the cameraman is among the classic amateur league "Zoom-Pan." But I was bored by now the smug ramblings of several colleagues about the poor quality of HDV (and formerly IR). I do not think the only that these men are really frustrated boos just because others with "cheaper" technology to achieve the same results. And without cuckoo on the camera, if something breaks in the order situation, and exceed the equipment's installment of the revenue. Surely it would be presumptuous to HDV to establish a production base and to offer HD without the subtext, because so far, due to their HDV camcorder 25Mbit for certain very limited quality recording operations, such as sports or unchained camera. But: It is now (with our established channels such as Premiere HD, Discovery HD) or Pro 7 because saving as much quality s.Datenraten "sent" that we (as end user, is perhaps a bit more demanding) verschaukelt sometimes occurs. Consider, for example, for example, at times "Sunrise Earth" on Discovery HD. As tranquil landscape shots are (; shown generally schwenkfrei). With the best camera technology. Very nicely composed with the help of history Tiffen filters for contrast enhancement. But then the data rate from the sender screwed into the basement that is already blowing in the wind, blades of grass can collapse and end up in the Picture Artefaktgestöber. Tough cuts look like mosaic image transitions. Because it imposes itself on a question, why a camera is on the alpine meadow, with the Optics and accessories far beyond the hundred thousand-euro class when going through the bottleneck broadcaster the benefits of higher quality recording format can not perceive it? So I just say once: a good operator and a better HDV camera with accessories ....... It would have only the least-noticed. I know so many sophisticated producers and camera people who have hochkopiert (at that time, or still) on Digibeta or DV SP and have sold s.The arrogant Vollpfosten among broadcasters. They have rarely noticed or was grumbling because they pay attention only to the quality "on paper". Following the motto: Where Beta draufsteht is synonymous beta be there. Now almost like the engineers at TÜV. The trick may be synonymous with a metal stamp and a Rennauspuffanlage. "As long as match type number and ABE,'s must be true .... " This is not true with HDV go to the same extent, but HDV can certainly synonymous working for TV productions. Can you provided. Technology alone does not guarantee good images. They look only at specific times of the evening series with the public broadcasters. As millions overdone for the technology - for a succession of loveless Talentfrei lit sets. And there are pros s.Werk. Presumably in the lap of an agency such as the ARD has rocked in security, that which was lost all sense of wit and sophisticated composition over the years. Since need to tell me what None of time pressure and turning everyday life. The cameraman has to prevail over the electrician if he gives no light contrast. Then stop the visit falls times s.Catering buffet from shorter. And it is precisely these people who only talk imme conspicuous by its mediocrity
Antwort von thedirector:
"Anonymous" wrote:
Could it be that you are confusing me now? I have repeatedly expressed very clearly relating to HDV, that's true. However, I have never written anything that could be called "call display". That would be synonymous not possible, because I've never had an HDV camera in hand.
Sorry, somehow I had held up for the author of this posting here:
"Anonymous" wrote:
I have tested various HDV camcorder makes for months, all excel in mpeg format, and what emerges is sobering. especially with motion blur, as the mpg's only every 12th building full of records. The vote indicated at 1900 pixel x 1000 Camera None. everything is with 1400 x1000 pixel (; recorded so-called 1080i / 50) and the good programs like canopus pinnacle or adobe mpeg equalize the already poor signal high on 1900x1000. wherein the pictures are obviously deteriorated, the eventual re-down sampling to 720 x 576 (; corresponds DVD standard), the films simply awful pale blurred. as a film-presentation (; on big screens around 5x3m) I compared the finished rendered mpg with my panasonic DVX 100A although with only 720 records x 576 but in avi format and with 25 frames. with the program Stumpfl hochrechgerechnet to 1400x1000 pixel. With my canon Biemer of 1400 x 1000 pixels can be compared, it is shocking how the so-called HDV cameras fall against normal good old-old 3 chip cameras in avi format.
users with the camera, I recommend waiting until a real HDV camera comes out, the pixel will not be equalized to 1900, and the full format with avi or similar records.
Was then obviously my fault, sorry for that.
But one thing is true: would not make yourself a picture too bad - before you already know that this business is all bad, and to demonize.
Antwort von PowerMac:
Their beer crates should finally stop with the "guest" and register you. Then come so stupid "mistakes," synonymous not before.
Antwort von thedirector:
"rp television" wrote:
@ susanne: Let yourself unsure why not. There will be a long whiners who want to make bad HDV format. Just as there are people who the (PAL format glorify, probably because they do not want to take the step to HD).
The Ursprungsfragerin will certainly have a lot of fun with her camera, however, is indeed synonymous to object anything. My intervention was once again really only meant to distinguish between the different systems clean. And what do "the step to HD" is concerned: Using HDV camcorder, and G5 with Final Cut Pro is for the ambitious Amateuer or semi for around EUR 10,000 to create.
For people who rely on "big technology" which means "step to HD," but an investment of approximately EUR 120,000, namely for the new camcorder, new lens, new MAZ and new editing system. Since other people are already building up for nearly a (; small) house for. Since I need this for my clients so far do not see, I will remain as long as possible on Beta SP.
Matthias
Antwort von thedirector:
"rp television" wrote:
I know so many sophisticated producers and camera people who have hochkopiert (at that time, or still) on Digibeta or DV SP and have sold s.The arrogant Vollpfosten among broadcasters. They have rarely noticed or was grumbling because they pay attention only to the quality "on paper".
Can I imagine myself entirely. And I must stress synonymous express all of your comments, which relate to the fact that the craftsmanship is more important than pure technique. Only meet in this industry just the technical shortcomings of most of the craft, together with inadequacies, therefore, perhaps synonymous my prejudices.
As I have frequently led these discussions with people in the business have been presented to me, of course, several times according copied recordings, because people were convinced that I would see no difference. So far I have not purposefully fished in 100 percent of cases, the recordings of the little cameras. And sure, purely by eye, not by measurement. Now I have to dazuschreiben but fair to say that (in the railway sector extremely difficult behavior, much can be s.der representation of the gravel and the catenary recognize prevail) and to secure in other areas the differences were not clearly seen.
And what you have written about the further signal from the transmitter to the audience, that's true, unfortunately, synonymous, and makes me pretty upset. Precisely for this reason one should, however s.Anfang the chain work as precise as possible, so always s.end still as much as possible of the quality remains.
Matthias
Antwort von wolfgang:
"Anonymous" wrote:
For people who rely on "big technology" which means "step to HD," but an investment of approximately EUR 120,000, namely for the new camcorder, new lens, new MAZ and new editing system. Since other people are already building up for nearly a (; small) house for. Since I need this for my clients so far do not see, I will remain as long as possible on Beta SP.
Then you'll have to endure but synonymous, and according to customers can be argued. And probably take into account, that some customers will jump to halt the "lower cost". The question will then be more likely, how strong is this cannibalization process, and how long will you tolerate it.
But for this situation as an ala HDV recording format can not do anything. That's just the phenomenon of technological substitution, and the eternal desire and impulse to buy things cheaper and better able to make and want to. At the end of the day the customer what he wants to pay for what decides - for the performance. This has, unfortunately, only partially stop doing what with HDV to.
And it is already clear that a high quality signal processing will cost money - but the customer will pay in the future? And how much will he pay?
Antwort von r.p. television:
That's true, of course, synonymous. Often meets technical and craft inadequacy. With a camera in 1000, - Euro we would have had to present a hammer idea, so someone buys the material for the technical quality is beyond doubt entlarfen consumer equipment. But I'm not necessarily synonymous small DV cameras approached, but cameras like JVC GY500, SonyDSR-300, etc., so really there are no amateur racing cars, which one gets to the media market around the corner. The problem with many stations are or have been: The only participated Beta SP or Digibeta, no preference what quality on it was. Were made only for news coverage DV tape, and then there was the quality synonymous no preference. When it was said those with which the camera was rotated stuff came just shrug, because those who set the cameras do not even know. "Beta SP or Digital .... .... big or small cassette!" was the standard rate. Therefore a cheap recorder and bought or borrowed hochkopiert to SP ..... Problem settled.
Antwort von r.p. television:
@ matthias: Oh yes: I believe you like that can you when viewing the footage, the small DV cameras fished out. But the CA in the small optics entlarfen quickly. One sees a difference between a synonymous 300bzw 400 SP, a DSR-300 or 700 Digibeta. If one looks at the footage in the editing room. The viewers at home see this difference not more. I just wanted out. Some complain about the price-dumping, which operate many. What is truth to this. But at least as I condemn this eternal bustle of DIN standards and minimum conditions (, pronounced), often unnecessarily expensive Euipment, which often have really good works pass through a sieve. And even though the client - ie broadcasters themselves be responsible for the greatest loss to Endkonsumten are. As is required of the contractors best possible equipment (; have shot themselves in the financing of many of the final out, and yet). And then save the channel data rates in order to expand its transponder space on Astra did not have to. Since the worm is still there. That is why I am upset about the arrogant nonsense of people who (to know better;) and had to pretend as if the holy grail of a 900 HD CAM or consists of a 700 Digibeta. A little tolerance for people who you are with equipment would be below the 30000th - Euro-League try to be entirely appropriate. For it clearly works. And synonymous HDV) has potential application in zwecksorientierter (; even for complete TV production.
Well. I think the issue is really inappropriate in this thread ....
(and I think a new thread here would have been better)
Antwort von thedirector:
"rp television" wrote:
Well. I think the issue is really inappropriate in this thread ....
Ah, but the title fits prima ... :-)
Basically I see it like you: You do not necessarily have DVW-790WSP, if the client does not explicitly required. My clients sit largely outside the media industry and just want to have only good movies that they can show the best quality at a fair or a congress. Insofar as most significant video projectors are in use, is synonymous everything fine. Bad it is only the new-fangled flat screens that are virtually impossible with the ability to play a PAL picture clean. Therefore, I have my regular clients so "educated" that a stand will be built so that people can not walk too close s.den monitor, but look at the picture from a reasonable distance (;) counter in between. And achieves a clean 4:3-Play is just only on a 4:3-tube monitor. Since there are still such good equipment that someone recently asked if that was an HD movie. The monitor was flush hidden in a wall. Of course, it could have been 4-3 when no HD, but they made the neighboring Flachmonitore such a bad picture that you could keep the tube picture is really that.
Matthias
Antwort von thedirector:
I do not know. I have to live in a different world in which the devices are obviously very different - in fact, much better.
A HDV2 video on an HD-ready plasma presented, looks at me significantly better than an SD picture. If one is aware of weaknesses in the HDV-fashioned, you can avoid these synonymous for small image films largely, if you will. And then the question arises, how to get going at a fair a HDV2 video. As you should of course be even high resolution, and the halt is currently synonymous with only a few devices.
As you know every time the system must be stop, how to use them.
Antwort von r.p. television:
You will, however, you have to ask how long it fair operators join in, get people to artificially viewing distance, just to fool a sharp picture. This is not necessary with HD. It is true already: There are PAL images that may not happen experienced observer, such as HD video. Most peripherals will all work together perfectly and it's a tube TV in the game. And a larger viewing distance precisely. But it is already a considerable effort to cover up a tube because of the optics on flat to. Since space is unnecessarily lost in the long run and will join the ninth over. Alone because graphics and fonts look much better in HD. Order Gaber show how operators are indeed watching the other classes s.and synonymous times when one has a good HD picture, he will want to soon have synonymous. When I look in the studio synonymous signals of any kind (always, HDV, DV, DV CAM '59) on a (;?) Sony's look at the pipes, I am surprised by the harshness sometimes synonymous. But this impression arises probably more subjective because of the small diagonal. Objetkiv be widely represented less detail. But if we contrast a very good HD picture on a perfectly set-view LCD or Plasma Full HD (;) Comparison with direct, it soon becomes clear that one (purely measured s.der details found in a postage stamp, SD) with a postcard (; HD) compares. Comparison of the course is now shown exaggerated, but sometimes arises precisely this impression.
Many people say that HD does not improve the picture significantly. But I think it actually completely changes the structure of video productions. Just for example: I have been twice privately in Paris. Always with the best video camera for currently and in the 4000th's Handgepack - Euroleague. Once, five years ago with my PD150. I especially shots of Sacreceur (and I hope that's spelled correctly) down compared to Paris and recording of Notre Dame, with photographs of last year. Since I had (a borrowed FX1 in the luggage; while not providing the optimal HD picture, but subjectively make pretty pictures). The PD150 was still high focal lengths necessary to highlight various details (, and since I had no tripod, and while not always of course there was a condition associated with various wobbles). The FX1, I just rested at much lower focal lengths and just let the work cut out image area. Without Swivel and usually without Kriechzooms. Back home considered the pictures looked much more consistent and more professional. Even on a PAL-tube. One almost felt as if I was not walking with my friend in Paris (; with the resulting rush of some motifs and) the resulting defects, but a tripod would have been time and bulky luggage. Of course, the tripod a wall and my partner was sometimes grouching stood beside it. Precisely for this reason - namely, the man (with SD often in high focal lengths and the resulting circumstances, either Tripod or wobbling had to change) - I find HD so great. You can see the details so synonymous. No panning and shifting focal length longer necessary to be aware of connections. For it is not always possible to set a hard cut and continue with another excerpt and Focal. Sometimes zooms and pans are needed to convey to the viewer later geographical or thematic contexts. And since HD is a very nice tool. Although I am both privately and professionally with video but already occupied several more years, I was never really happy with video. Synonymous with HDV, I'm still not happy, but it is a milestone in the history of video and I am grateful that there is this format. Unfortunately, in SD still hold long enough. If HDV had not existed, it would have taken much longer. That is why HDV is not a plague but an essential precursor
Antwort von HeikoS:
It remains to note that the difference Consumer SD (; PD150) to Consumer HD (; fails FX1) far more blatant than in the consumer HD Comparison of Professional SD (; 1 / 2 "or 2 / 3"). Even a PD150/170 irritates the possible resolution, which does not offer the SD standard. Much Kantenaufsteilung with the signal processing is achieved by hinzubekommen a subjective sharpness. Greeting Heiko
Antwort von r.p. television:
@ heiko: This is of course absolutely correct. That's why I'm synonymous written that it is cameras for hand luggage and to the 4000's, - Euro (; the then price) is. Also quasi competitors on an equal footing as weight, dimensions and price concerns. With a DVCAM DSR-500 instead of a PD-150, I would have made of course a repräsetativeres results for SD (; or DVCAM). Then I had but one fair HDW-750 as an HD counterpart must hold against it. And since then there again in about the same ratio as between PD150 and FX1.
PS: If I listed above shoulder camcorder in my private Paris vacation would have taken, I would be with security in the possession much better Aufnhamen. But my friend had given me the sack ..... ;-)
Antwort von wolfgang:
So now to bring the hatred that some professionals HDV lately contrary, shows that these professionals, at least HDV also causes problems. And obviously because it is perhaps not as bad as they wish.
It is important to hold that one is aware that we must learn to deal with a format like HDV synonymous. Especially for the beginner das no or very slow panning applies when pans, then out of a good tripod. Or the need to pay much more than SD again to sharpen. Or the situation that we stop 16:9 images more easily blurred as 4:3 images.
Sure gibts with such a consumer format limitations, such as low data rate, or the fields used. But you have to pay attention to sowas halt to the shooting.
Antwort von PowerMac:
"wolfgang" wrote:
(, ...) Or the situation that we stop 16:9 blurred images even easier as 4:3 images. (, ...)
Who says you have for that?
Antwort von r.p. television:
Tilt of the camera axis is at 16:9 more weight and can be described in the Acts of camera shake - is then rocked out as the horizon and her. It is not blurry anymore, but it creates the subjective impression. Apart from the blurring is especially a crooked horizon, a bigger problem than in 4:3. This does not, however, should have a professional concern ....
Antwort von thedirector:
"PowerMac" wrote:
"wolfgang" wrote:
(, ...) Or the situation that we stop 16:9 blurred images even easier as 4:3 images. (, ...)
Who says you have for that?
Practical experience, if that counts? And rp hats before you explained in detail.
Wolfgang
Antwort von McAlpine:
Does it eigentlchich just about the technical differences between HDV and "true" HD format such as HDCAM or whatever synonymous forever? Or it may be the "good" image film, documentary or what ever is not alone is synonymous with the technical quality? Sure, the margin with HDV in all its limitations is less than in any other format, are still synonymous commercially successful target productions that rotated. Why? Perhaps because it is cheaper - yes. But perhaps because synonymous with a small camera can shoot better in some situations. Degree in the document area ... But I miss in this thread with all the technical gewettere times a thought about the design. Synonymous as a professional, I am sure annoyed when I have expensive equipment in the camp that has not yet been written off, but I must offer my clients above all a good product content - to convince him with a story or idea and do not come to him so that I 4:4:4 and turns on the "cheap" to 4:2:0 ...
Antwort von Pianist:
"McAlpine" wrote:
Why? Perhaps because it is cheaper - yes. But perhaps because synonymous with a small camera can shoot better in some situations. Degree in the field of documentary ....
This is exactly my view the only justification for the use of a small camera. How can arise shots that would not exist otherwise, such as in countries without press freedom, for any anti-constitutional groups or synonymous in situations where you can attach a small camera somewhere s.einem vehicle without compromising a great camera too.
"McAlpine" wrote:
But I miss in this thread with all the technical gewettere times a thought about the design.
And this design is so synonymous with the small camera is extremely difficult, unless one has plenty of time. For many control actions are possible only through a menu, you can work with these cameras do not quickly and reliably. Also, most viewfinder do not allow reliable assessment of the image. If things will be rotated without the tripod, can such small cameras are practically not kept quiet. The little Lenses can not be certain physical limits to skip the small cassettes are handled so badly that simply because a small camera is always a risk factor.
The main point is: A small camera is never really taken seriously. Of these, many people who report that times have a stage production rotated. Actors enter either not enough, because they do not take seriously the little camera, or they play "20 Series" because they think that is otherwise not included enough on the little camera. Is a purely psychological thing. And in the message field of small cameras are not synonymous seriously, if at the same three other people with big cameras are present. Since then runs the politicians or the press until the big cameras.
Is also assumed that only someone with a little camera work that is already not very efficient, so that it reduces the usable technology synonymous nor their incorrect handling added. If a mayor or a press officer has several times seen totally eclipsed on television and remembers that he was with a small camera filmed, he said the station will probably continue to give any interviews or more in advance, at least make a pointed remark. Would the way synonymous.
Conclusion: Using small cameras to get into stupid situations that can be easily avoided by the use of large cameras.
Matthias
Antwort von PowerMac:
"Pianist" wrote:
(; ...) The most important point is: A small camera is never really taken seriously. Of these, many people who report that times have a stage production rotated. Actors enter either not enough, because they do not take seriously the little camera, or they play "20 Series" because they think that is otherwise not included enough on the little camera. Is a purely psychological thing. And in the message field of small cameras are not synonymous seriously, if at the same three other people with big cameras are present. Since then runs the politicians or the press until the big cameras. (, ...)
So this is "a purely psychological thing." Then over here with the empirical investigation! These are just hollow statements that I can say hermeneutic synonymous opposite. For example, that actor with a small camera to play better, because then they forget the camera. Not even for "pyschologischer logic" is great equated with "good" or "important". Always careful with such terms ... Without solid background you will make us more suspicious, only one of the old guard of his camera crew to discredit every little camera as inferior. No longer compete professionally Out of sheer fear can. Make sure "good" tools terms, but it is synonymous different. You sneer at every aspiring Filmmakers and anyone who you think is the "necessary" facilities can not afford.
Antwort von Pianist:
"PowerMac" wrote:
You sneer at every aspiring Filmmakers and anyone who you think is the "necessary" facilities can not afford.
I taunt anyone at all, my comments are not directed against aspiring young film-makers who realize their own initiative with their own money-film projects. For such applications, the small new technology is certainly well suited.
But I just as synonymous clearly point out where the boundaries are and what experiences I do on rotating schedule where there are both small and large synonymous cameras present. I bring here once again my favorite saying: "The image is what they think _other_. We can make times like this, an empirical study, but I can tell you now the result: If people do not know each other, a plurality of test subjects entgegenbringen the filmmakers with the big camera to assign him more confidence and competence as the filmmaker with the small camera. Although this is certainly not justified often.
Incidentally, there are still a difference, more of a legal: With a little camera as passengers in the subway will assume that there is a Nahverkehrsfan, the films for themselves privately. But when I showed up with my big camera, then each is clear that these are images that are intended for publication. If I then make a brief announcement, and no one raises objections, may I assume that nobody has actually been planted, to appear briefly in a similar film. The transition between "right s.eigenen Picture" and "accessory" is quite fluent and the "implied consent" is legally more important, but just only works if people can synonymous see that these are images that have to distribution are determined. For this reason, it is important that professional cameras have a certain size and of little cameras differ significantly.
Matthias
Antwort von thedirector:
HDV stands for the word lucky indeed not to: high definition video, so yes is synonymous not HD, in high definition! Thus, it does indeed do überhaut nichst synonymous with HD, but SD is a better written but still HD.
Antwort von HeikoS:
Clarifier me on: What is HDV?
Antwort von kpv:
"Heiko" wrote:
Clarifier me on: What is HDV?
H igh D efinition V ideo
Antwort von Gast3:
Error. HDV stands for H, therefore H-DV digital video, where the H is to stand for high, so similar to HiFi Everything else is just unwanted associations s.HD-what-ever-synonymous. So at least the concept of real marketing Quark. And your efforts here, interpreted in HDV something pure, reminds me s.The old knowledge: When you step quark, it is not fixed, but broader. The really important step is of 4:3 to 16:9. Everything else is, and remains ... Quark.
Antwort von PowerMac:
If the Japanese so much knowledge of English can be trusted ...;) Guest3 is right.
Antwort von r.p. television:
So that with the Kameragroße I can only sign. The bigger the camera gets the more attention and acceptance of man. Did this experience has so often done.
It is such a lightweight with a large camera to invite to events "themselves". Coming with a PD150 s.wird they smiled sympathetically.
Did, for example, once made over several months to an event-video series for Munich's regional TV. With two cameras. A Sony DV CAM DSR-300 with Wide-angle lens and a production of Compendium Chrosziel. So what has already dug optical correctly. The second camera was a PD-150 with wide angle attachment, and also head light. The second camera was - when the first camera was around - no attention paid. Everything was focused on the "big" camera. Through the production compendium had the camera for the amateur, even "quality" as a Digi-Beta, which s.Start once had a colleague at an event. The halt was only a standard lens with standard Sunshade on it.
Bin synonymous with the great camera at a movie premiere with Angelina Jolie without Akreditierung vorbeigeflutscht times just now. A cameraman (behind me, with PD150) had to mount his heart card.
And precisely this is synonymous is one reason why HDV is currently lower acceptance among professionals, because even the biggest HDV (and Canon XL H1 for about 9000, - Euro) just does not look after broadcast camera. I am sure that if For example, a Sony HDV camera in the manner of DSR would be releasing original series, would be but synonymous in one or other professional perspective to decide that. Condition is natural that the camcorder is priced under settled XD CAM HD. A camera crew with a small Henkelmann will never get taken seriously, as if a large volume Shoulder Camcorder with all sorts of knickknacks flanged comes along. Sounds trite, is not so.
Antwort von Axel:
"Guest3" wrote:
When you step quark, it is not fixed, but wider.
Comparison intuitive. When you stand in the U.S. s.der refrigerated display case, you must not synonymous always read the fine print: I can not believe it's ... butter. Taste for the tasteless Amis really is a good approximation, the melting shows the origin (; hissing in the pan and not browning). If we like to say: Just called and tastes like butter.
"Guest3" wrote:
The really important step is of 4:3 to 16:9. Everything else is, and remains ... Quark.
That is, except for gourmets, synonymous somewhat exaggerated. HDV been synonymous lies in a high-definition, he, just as the opposite to SD. I suspect it will eventually correct to speak of HDV.
Antwort von thedirector:
"Guest3" wrote:
Error. HDV stands for H, therefore H-DV digital video, where the H is to stand for high, so similar to hifi
Hmm, wikipedia sees it differently.
Quote:
High Definition Video, HDV short, is a video format that was developed to record HDTV video using conventional video equipment
And here in the lexicon slashcam found the following:
Quote:
HDV (; consumer high-definition digital video) is of Canon, Sharp, JVC developed Sonyand format that enables users to save high-resolution HD video on DV tapes to. It is in a different format, namely MPEG-2 HD in 1080i (; 1440 X 1080 pixels interlaced at 50 or 60 fps or 720p, that is 1280 X 720 pixels resolution at 60/50/30/25 fps) video and 48kHz/16-bit MPEG-1 Audio Layer II with 384 kbit / s (on DV tape, with a maximum of 25 Mbit / s) recorded, this can be practical-and cost-saving way to use the same mechanism as in DV drives.
http://www.slashcam.de/multi/Glossar/ HDV. Html
And synonymous here is different:
Quote:
(; High Definition Video) The high-definition, wide screen version of the DV magnetic tape format. Like DV, HDV recording moves sa constant data rate and stores data on the same DV and MiniDV tapes s.SD camcorders. Introduced in 2003, HDV uses 4:2:0 color sampling, MPEG-2 video compression and MPEG-1 audio compression (; 16-bit stereo). HDV machines record YCbCr frames in 1280x720p, 1980x1080i or 1980x1080p resolutions. Lake IR, DTV and HD DVD.
Exactly how I see it synonymous, which I have already mentioned occasionally. The Stupid thing is it is only that this synonymous professionals can come in tight spot when someone tells a buyer of high-resolution technique and what we must then argue argument. I content myself now with the simple statement that a higher resolution than PAL brings no practical benefit, because more screen space requires more synonymous viewing distance and time again that everything is as before. Dear PAL provide a clean picture with a good camera, synonymous like to play in 16 to 9 - and then this on a good monitor. Then you do not need high-resolution technique.
And for television, it is completely not care anyway - because the people do get today via Freeview, cable and satellite view in part such a gruel so that I do not know how to be transferred in this way constitutes a superior signal when already a football turf only green glop is square shaped and the players move.
Matthias
Antwort von Eva Maier:
A true word
/ E
Antwort von thedirector:
Hach beautiful, as in the nursing home. "These young people of today with their computers, nothing but the devil's work. Kreigt My grandson of me only wooden toys, as he could wish as often as for his electrical box. Then we had the war not even have electricity and we have grown synonymous. " Machts so and will be happy with but you know even if grandpa too often comes with Laier he was eventually will no longer take seriously.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Anonymous" wrote:
Machts so and will be happy with but you know even if grandpa too often comes with Laier he was eventually will no longer take seriously.
Then you still buy one HDW-750P for 57,000 EUR, a lens for EUR 20,000 and one for playback s.Schnittplatz HDW-looking in 2000 for 38.000 EUR - me, who first broke the two of us.
Matthias
Antwort von Eva Maier:
That with the old people I remember me!
Otherwise, yes there is no reason to work with the available equipment to that one is prepared in the future, so to speak.
/ (, E
Antwort von Pianist:
"Eva Maier" wrote:
Otherwise, yes there is no reason to work with the available equipment to that one is prepared in the future, so to speak.
Exactly - but only if some clients demand it and are willing to give so large orders that the investments in two years there. Since, therefore, would have been someone with a fixed order of EUR 200,000 for two years to come, and this is unlikely to occur in the structure of my clients, plus I have too many different, which is the technical picture somewhat no preference.
Matthias
Antwort von wolfgang:
If HDV did not do so with HD, which is said by the way wrong, then I ask myself, why fear seems soo many pros to this format. Perhaps, because a depreciation killed when one invests in a professional HD format?
Antwort von Eva Maier:
The pianist has not run with his wrong, especially when one considers the economic aspects.
The customer also needs material which he can use without further additional costs.
s
Antwort von Pianist:
"wolfgang" wrote:
If HDV did not do so with HD, which is said by the way wrong, then I ask myself, why fear seems soo many pros to this format. Perhaps, because a depreciation killed when one invests in a professional HD format?
I have repeatedly stated it: Because this may eventually fall into Zugzwang, the s.sich would not be necessary. And, not incidentally, will kill you of depreciation, but of the cost. And the risk is great that in five years no one wants to have the selected format, because something completely different has prevailed.
How fortunate that my technique still holds for a while.
Matthias
Antwort von Eva Maier:
Maybe I should bring an old saying:
Economy means work Save money means earning Gel
(; Beautiful greeting from the old home)
/ E
Antwort von Pianist:
"Eva Maier" wrote:
Economy means work Save money means to earn money
Just as it is. And if you go this way consistently, you have indeed synonymous enough money to buy some new technology, without having to attack too much to have the reserves. Which must then walk another ten few years deserve and Money. Finally, one has to pay it enough, and other costs must be synonymous nor his taxes.
Matthias
Antwort von m.Ballhaus:
The true professional makes the best out of the related available material. A friend last year, a movie cameraman was on the Z1 rotated. With P & S 35mm adapter but still HDV. The arrogance of "I-just-turning-to-the-big-mills" cameramen will really lead to "clean up" the market. But different than you think .....
Antwort von Pianist:
"m.Ballhaus" wrote:
The arrogance of "I-just-turning-to-the-big-mills" cameramen will really lead to "clean up" the market. But different than you think .....
Oh, no. A format such as HDV, where you have to pray that there are no faults in the material, not permanently useful. By the way: Your username is a bit cheeky.
Matthias
Antwort von wolfgang:
"Pianist" wrote:
"wolfgang" wrote:
If HDV did not do so with HD, which is said by the way wrong, then I ask myself, why fear seems soo many pros to this format. Perhaps, because a depreciation killed when one invests in a professional HD format?
I have repeatedly stated it: Because this may eventually fall into Zugzwang, the s.sich would not be necessary. And, not incidentally, will kill you of depreciation, but of the cost. And the risk is great that in five years no one wants to have the selected format, because something completely different has prevailed.
How fortunate that my technique still holds for a while.
Matthias
Oh, Matthew, we have discussed already, now I'm happy to explain it synonymous again: that's almost the same statement economically - just almost, I admit. You need to stop for the first time the appropriate capital investment to meet the cash needs of the investment itself. Whether you now or ceiling on foreign equity. When borrowing ists even riskier, because you have to raise the interest and principal payments, before clear.
Then when you've made the investment, however, are the so-called sunk costs - the decision is made, the money is gone. Up to the point that you should have earned for the next re-invest the money again. From this Page there is a good idea to make his return to depreciation, as long as you want deinvestieren not the business slowly but surely. Typically, the EBITDA is a G & V is a good indicator of the cash flow - but EBIT tells you quite well, how much you're actually operationally successful. If any debt you should of course synonymous eighth onto the bottom line.
And the thing with the tight spot: you are for me the perfect example of someone who fights like a madman to technological development. This is completely pointless - the HDV devices now gibts mal. You come under pressure only if you find no way, yet with your equipment - no preference, whether old or new generating - an adequate cash flow, which you leave an appropriate margin - after depreciation.
In other words, it has no sense to fight against technological trends - which you can not do with your company influence (; unless you Sonyheißt or Microsoft). But it makes sense to lead your company in a way that it adapts s.diese technological trends - and thus survived. Since the investment decision is one of them, as well as the assessment with which customers and Money can be in which customer segments you earn in the future - or whether it is simply not going to go into more professional HD equipment.
For the practitioner time to think about it: if today a Canon A1 (; halt or FX1 or Z1, no preference) times the cost around 4000 euros, and I write from the device to 5 years, and counting times gently with 60 shooting days - then per day of shooting I had a write-off of cheeky 13 euros. I reckon the other hand, with a purchase price of 70,000 euros for a professional camera, then I've been under the same assumptions mal 233 Euro depreciation. Now only time Comparison - a MAS or multiple cameras, editing suites, etc., not including appropriate.
The numerical examples will only be - you can even copy fast synonymous, depending on where you are and how much one has as a choice.
Antwort von r.p. television:
@ michael ballhaus (; haha) That with the "big mill" has probably nothing to do with arrogance. They are simply a better tool - or rather - they ARE tools, the other relatively toys - but still not bad cameras (; eg FX1, A1). Nevertheless, one can produce with the small handle men movies. The result can ever come to trouble to prepare and post a movie that was rotated with far more professional equipment, very close. But only almost, and with much planning.
If I have a choice, I prefer to turn with a "big mill". Although severe and sweeping. But I do not deny me a small camera.
@ pianist aka matthias
If the market for industrial, event and exhibition film (; and I believe that your area - synonymous as I have) not soon umschwenkt to HD is your equipment will still hold for a while. As far as television is before everything else: If you turn not just high-quality productions for Discovery HD - and only make a few - is HD for TV broadcasters eh erstmal future. And the rest of the SD-TV is part anyway so clumsily cobbled together, that the demands of the new channel for high-quality technology are really only an impertinence. High-end equipment such as Ikegami camcorder worth only customers outside the TV landscape. There, where the picture quality still is not reaching 1:1 and diminished by a series of savings and dilettantism is like ZDF & Co. For example, once had the last Saturday in ZDF bets "... that" times and was shocked that there were charlatans s.Werk. All studio cameras were overexposed at least three quarters of an f-stop, had the micro-radio links with extremely different levels and Beyonce was a ridiculous delay (they even had to put smile) on her voice. When you consider what equipment fleet had arrived here s.Start and what quality the audience - you must be very angry.
Since I can still inspire an ambitious amateur with material for his FX1 more.
Antwort von Pianist:
"rp television" wrote:
High-end equipment such as Ikegami camcorder worth only customers outside the TV landscape.
Exactly, therefore at the moment of coming to me synonymous only Ikegami Editcam HD in question, because I've always relied on Ikegami cameras. But it is exactly as you say: So long as my client does not explicitly require it remains all the same. And then there will come a day when it makes sense - then I to get out.
Recently, the BR has a lot s.Material of me blown up to 16:9 and DVW-790 against a cut, we saw virtually no difference. And BR is among the broadcasters, whose picture looks very good here in the Berlin cable network, unlike many others.
That is why I continue to lean back.
Matthias
Antwort von thedirector:
Well then it'll stay with your equipment - where is the problem? Neither kill one's depreciation costs, you must still invest.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Anonymous" wrote:
Well then it'll stay with your equipment - where is the problem? Neither kill one's depreciation costs, you must still invest.
Exactly. I have therefore no problem at all synonymous. So far, the issue once came in an invitation to the language and I was able to successfully turn.
Matthias
Antwort von PowerMac:
You can twist yourself as you want: HDV is HD. Thou canst not think of anything for HD, what it means for you. (The professional understanding (, HD = HDCAM, SR)) is false. HD stands for television above of EDTV. And this criterion is sufficient HDV. HD (; TV) is not related to professionals, but a general term. Basta.
Antwort von Pianist:
"PowerMac" wrote:
HD stands for television above of EDTV. And this criterion is sufficient HDV.
When are you just more pixels, then of course true. More pixels alone but still make a better picture and are synonymous is no guarantee of a sustainable size. A robust and usable medium for high-quality productions, has a decent lens and front and rear a robust recording system. Both are missing in the small HDV cameras. But that is synonymous not a problem because these small cameras have a very different audience. They are designed for enthusiastic amateurs or for artistic productions, where little money is available. Both have absolutely yes its right to exist, but they will just say always very accurate, since it is precisely what one speaks and what one might do with it.
Matthias
Antwort von PowerMac:
Look: we can philosophize about any meanings, as we want. Only we have to mention this. You would not initially write HDV HD and HDV would be sowas of shit. And then one comes back feel attacked and bluster. Only you do not talk of HD as a technical term. HD is very firmly defined. You talk impression from the picture, professional criteria. The other speaks of his beloved consumer HDV.
We may even find time: HDV is for the purposes specified uses of the term HD. But HDV may often be unprofessional. We are all happy.
Antwort von Pianist:
"PowerMac" wrote:
We are all happy.
Hach, schööööön wat is dat! :-)
Matthias
Antwort von wolfgang:
"Pianist" wrote:
A robust and usable medium for high-quality productions, has a decent lens and front and rear a robust recording system. Both are missing in the small HDV cameras.
Even though we are all happy - here synonymous divorce but the spirits. I find this lens on my FX1 for my personal needs, and synonymous for my little jobs quite decent. It delivers on my HD Ready plasma, a very good quality. Sure gibts considered in HDV some limitations, but the need to halt during the shoot.
More wants to invest here, I do not synonymous - and the reason is because I'm so with a couple of weddings and first communions yes just want to recoup the money for my equipment a bit. Even professional wedding videographers often do not invest in more - because for this purpose would be completely covered, and especially for the small price s.Markt recoverable such productions.
Synonymous, and the recording system is sufficiently robust for my purposes. Wenns da times on 3 comes to 10 hours a dropped frame, you, because I can live well with it. Still, the material is cut, and there ere not stay more than 20 to 40% of the O-material above. Bad points you have to hide in the postpro ever before.
It's not like that one does not know the weaknesses of the format - on the contrary that have been discussed sufficiently often synonymous. Here are some: http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=3283 But for many purposes, but it just goes out completely.
Antwort von HeikoS:
I just wanted to get rid of ;-)
Antwort von Markus:
Interesting discussion!
I picked out s.vielen bodies that are often synonymous to the expectation of the (; Un-go) involved. A great camera to connect with the many "great television" and with special quality. - Although not many television content to emphasize the straight.
I have a client who asks every time for large, representative video cameras. - Until it goes to the job. Then he will suddenly have little camcorder, because they are cheaper.
As for me wegbringt of HDV, the camcorder formats in the first place. I know the work with the PD170 and know that you certainly can work with it freehand. But if then a microphone, a head light and possibly synonymous accident nor a converter, it gets really uncomfortable. A few scenes so that you can still rotate, but then makes itself sooner rather than later, the relentless force of gravity felt.
The handling is also an important reason for me to speak for a shoulder camera. And because there is nothing suitable there, I'll have to look around for that reason alone in XDCAM HD or DVCProHD. Another advantage is it just the continuous professional format with all its advantages over HDV.
Synonymous but there is a serious drawback, and I can understand why, when so many pro-enemy is the HDV: HDV is relatively cheap and make some broken the Prices. It is difficult to find the middle ground between representational and the appearance of their costs.
Antwort von wolfgang:
404ERR
Antwort von PowerMac:
Can you please finally the false DV-avi wean. It's called DV. And not DV-avi. AVI has nothing, absolutely NOTHING to do with a video format. Equally wrong would be DV or DV Quicktime mpeg to refer to a video format. For an engineer it's almost embarrassing ...
Antwort von wolfgang:
Yes, sir! :)
But you already know that "DV AVI" occurs even in slashcam lexicon?
Quote:
DV-AVI
See synonymous: DV Microsoft defines two methods of DV video data to be stored in AVI, type 1 and type-2. Although theoretically an AVI file can contain any number of data streams, is the standard for Video for Windows is a video stream or audio stream, or both.
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:dVoJk3Yi-RsJ:www.slashcam.de/multi/Glossar/ DV AVI.html + DV-avi & hl = en & gl = us & ct = clnk & cd = 1
And why not synonymous? It is indeed synonymous mjpeg-avi, divx, avi, etc. - is only a shell avi format ...
... but I'll give you right: ists halt in DV camcorder to DV-AVI will be first on the hard drive. ;)
Antwort von r.p. television:
@ wolfgang
Basically, I can agree with all of your comments. Collision as a professional even though I sometimes synonymous with FX-1 users who think it (having absolute professional technique, because the FX-1 to make the most expensive model from the media market was) and with large flap and amateurish operation of the market badly. And since I do not speak of Preispolitk.
But with the shoulder-stands, I can not confirm that. Had a used as a backup for the PD150 DSR-300 or later, DSR-500. No matter what the shoulder stand - wandering in no time at all to the trash or Ebay. A shoulder camcorder is designed to focus precisely on the shoulder or even behind it is. This allows long relaxed work, because nothing must raise the right arm. He is effectively suspended in the Objektivschlaufe (; deshlab Batteries and rear flanges are many more off than necessary in order to enhance this effect). In the shoulder stand is still the most weight of the camcorder on the right hand. Or is is such a stupid thing to buckle resulting camera nodding to each breather. And when you put film must quickly from the frog's perspective or will soon leave the thing is simply the tripod in your way.
A small Henkelmann should be accurately understood. The best results are achieved that. S.Henkel right hand, the other on the screen or a stabilizing lens.
But the long term is achieved with a shoulder beside Formater better accessibility to all buttons, rocker switches, and the quieter recordings without Behelfsfirlefanz such as shoulder stands. And although severe cramp is not so fast.
Antwort von Pianist:
"rp television" wrote:
But the long term is achieved with a shoulder beside Formater better accessibility to all buttons, rocker switches, and the quieter recordings without Behelfsfirlefanz such as shoulder stands.
Just as it is. In many situations you can set the camera simply synonymous in his lap, for example, if one is filming children playing on the floor with building blocks. But to be a camera just have a certain minimum size, because otherwise form in his own body movements can be no unity with her.
And the accessibility of the controls is really a very important point, if only I would not work with small cameras.
Matthias
Antwort von Pianist:
"Markus" wrote:
And because there is nothing suitable there, I'll have to look around for that reason alone in XDCAM HD or DVCProHD.
XDCAM HD, but has a 4:2:0-processing and would therefore have rausfallen for me, apart of the fact that there are currently only half-inch chips. And what to make of the storage media used there, I do not know yet. Once we have more concrete experience with the WDR, one is sure about what to read.
DVCPro HD would in fact currently the only system that provides a stable and decent signal processing chip sizes and is priced in an area where you think about it at least once. And if I have understood correctly, because tapes can be used, which correspond roughly to the mechanically Beta format. This would obviously synonymous very good thing, because I hate those little tapes.
If only it would be releasing original addition to the Ikegami Editcam a similar model, then that would be really worth considering. I can not imagine simply walking around with a Panasonic camera, but still afraid to be dispensed with completely and tapes to only work with hard disks for.
Matthias
Antwort von Bernd E.:
"Pianist" wrote:
XDCAM HD, but has a 4:2:0-processing and would therefore have rausfallen for me, apart of the fact that there are currently only half-inch chips.
From the paper you are right, of course, the use of reports from the field - some seasoned veterans of DigiBeta - read but still very positive. Neither the signal processing or the half-inch chips have here the very good overall impression clouded. So bad that seems not to be, if you look at the image results.
"Pianist" wrote:
And what to make of the storage media used there, I do not know yet. Once we have more concrete experience with the WDR, one is sure about what to read.
As far as the Professional Disc as a storage media, you need not actually on further experience of WDR and RTL wait. The disc is (already several years in the widespread XDCAM system, non-HD) in use and has proven itself, even under the most extreme shooting conditions.
Gruß Bernd E.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Bernd E." wrote:
As far as the Professional Disc as a storage media, you need not actually on further experience of WDR and RTL wait. The disc is (already several years in the widespread XDCAM system, non-HD) in use and has proven itself, even under the most extreme shooting conditions.
I've been neither a XD-Cam or a professional disc had in his hands. Do you have experience as concrete? How long does it take, for example, is receptive to the device after power? For Beta SP and Digibeta are so about 5 seconds when you press any angle, or longer. Namely, somebody once told me that the boot (; is indeed no camera, but a computer) "fairly long" continues. And since I'm often in situations where I previously did not exactly know when I'll be ready to fire is necessary, but the camera is not synonymous to spend hours on, the important information.
In November-CAMERAMAN is a summary of all digital SD and HD format, stands for XDCAM HD, that the system works with 1440 by 1080 pixels. What's that for an aspect ratio?
The next important question would be, of course, is how the half-inch chip HD camcorder with an existing 2/3-Inch-SD-Broadcast-Lens tolerated. A mount adapter, there is yes, but I have no idea how the visual result looks like on image circle and resolution. Price perspective is XDCAM HD was only when the camcorder purchases for 22,000 EUR and the editing suite with a drive for the Professional Disc equips. On a deck, you can then give yes, because it is not systemic. A new lens for still views from 20,000 to 30,000 EUR would drive but then again the price significantly in the air. So the central question: How are existing Lenses?
By Sonywird XDCAM and XDCAM HD, the way only as "professional" classification, not for "broadcast", recognizes what is so synonymous s.den letter designations. It seems that the institutions concerned do not disturb you too.
Matthias
Antwort von HeikoS:
"Pianist" wrote:
stands for XDCAM HD, that the system works with 1440 by 1080 pixels. What's that for an aspect ratio?
Matthias
Well, XDCAM HD and DVC PRO HD has nothing to do with HD halt ;-)
Antwort von Axel:
"Pianist" wrote:
By Sonywird XDCAM and XDCAM HD, the way only as "professional" classification, not for "broadcast", recognizes what is so synonymous s.den letter designations. It seems that the institutions concerned do not disturb you too.
The "stations" are you humble, which meet their high expectations and standards which are not. You see this as an investment recommendation, but will soon be of "professional only" tiered competitors booted out. Has always been so, always will be.
Antwort von Bernd E.:
"Pianist" wrote:
Do you have experience as concrete?
Unfortunately, less than I would have liked. The camera I've seen me once at the dealer very intense and, as such, the system for a morning of a Sony manager can play - but here it was more about workflow, post production, etc.
"Pianist" wrote:
How long does it take, for example, is receptive to the device after power?
I can not say exactly, but I remember something of under four seconds, "heard them. In a few days I watch the camera again, it's then I'll try.
"Pianist" wrote:
how to tolerate the half-inch chip HD camcorder with an existing 2/3-Inch-SD-Broadcast-Lens is. A mount adapter, there is yes, but I have no idea how the visual result looks like on image circle and resolution.
In any case, you lose with (this combination at wide angle focal area; extension factor 1.37). On the issue of Optics s.einer SD XDCAM HD - and other topics related to this system - there's some way in this forum s.Info:
www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=114
Two fairly detailed test reports are synonymous found here:
www.dvuser.co.uk/generalresults.php?CST=12
Gruß Bernd E.
Antwort von kpv:
"rp television" wrote:
But with the shoulder-stands, I can not confirm that. Had a used as a backup for the PD150 DSR-300 or later, DSR-500. No matter what the shoulder stand - wandering in no time at all to the trash or Ebay. A shoulder camcorder is designed to focus precisely on the shoulder or even behind it is. This allows long relaxed work, because nothing must raise the right arm. He is effectively suspended in the Objektivschlaufe (; deshlab Batteries and rear flanges are many more off than necessary in order to enhance this effect). In the shoulder stand is still the most weight of the camcorder on the right hand. Or is is such a stupid thing to buckle resulting camera nodding to each breather. And when you put film must quickly from the frog's perspective or will soon leave the thing is simply the tripod in your way.
Sure, the so-called shoulder tripods for cameras like the FX1 is a kind of stopgap, because of course, the focus is much too far forward. I myself have such a part with buckle, and yes, we already recognize as the camera occasionally nod. I can fully confirm. The only question is, what is the better solution. A variant is a good monopod, a very interesting discussion about this is running here: http://forum.hochzeits-video.at/index.php/topic,512.0.html
Personally, I would have ausgemachat nix it, if there is a variant of the FX1 would have been a real shoulder device. But unfortunately.
Perform particularly yourself, because you have an FX1 - well that is just next to it, such as dismissing HDV users only as a whole.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Bernd E." wrote:
Two fairly detailed test reports are synonymous found here:
www.dvuser.co.uk/generalresults.php?CST=12
Super - it's the most telling review I have ever read anywhere. This can be summarized as well as follows: An ambitious BBC cameraman, who usually turns with a Digibeta, tests over several weeks, a XDCAM HD (, F 350) and it is really good, apart from the noise performance in low light. Of these, I would have my own views to make a picture. But what he clearly writes: It is extremely on the right lens choice. It is encouraging but then again, that of his preferred Lens with 14.000 EUR is still relatively affordable.
Maybe I should just XDCAM HD antesten times.
Matthias
Antwort von Pianist:
"Bernd E." wrote:
I can not say exactly, but I remember something of under four seconds, "heard them. In a few days I watch the camera again, it's then I'll try.
Then be sure but the fact that the disc is already well filled. Because I suspect that the boot always takes longer, the greater was already rotated.
The 23-GB media will cost about EUR 27 and go up there 60 minutes, ie EUR 0.45 per minute. A 36-minute Beta SP tape now only costs 8 EUR, ie EUR 0.22 per minute. The material stands at no more than twice. Either one will find oneself from it, or uses only a few discs to Rotate and then later copied to other media.
It may be, however, that one accustomed to delete, clear useless material at once, so that the then relative.
Matthias
Antwort von thedirector:
Quote:
Then be sure but the fact that the disc is already well filled. Because I suspect that the boot always takes longer, the greater was already rotated.
I can respeak as the XDCAM HD, before that, an internal buffer and write only writes for 5 to 10 seconds on the disc. So I guess the one XDCam HD even faster than a digit or BetaSP beta is ready. I have the XDCAM HD at the moment unfortunately not at hand, but can stop the next time like the start time.
Quote:
The 23-GB media will cost about EUR 27 and go up there 60 minutes, ie EUR 0.45 per minute. A 36-minute Beta SP tape now only costs 8 EUR, ie EUR 0.22 per minute. The material stands at no more than twice.
So the already lagging Satisfactory Comparison yes, if you can sowas Maybe even with DVCPRO-(; HD) cassettes but do not compare with BetaSP. A CD-R at the moment will cost less than half of a DVD-R, but that's why I would never get the idea to nurnoch buy CD-Rs. Alone, the advantage that I the material as opposed to no-longer BetaSP complicated record on my editing system must make the price of the disc Prof. almost right again.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Anonymous" wrote:
I can respeak as the XDCAM HD, before that, an internal buffer and write only writes for 5 to 10 seconds on the disc. So I guess the one XDCam HD even faster than a digit or BetaSP beta is ready. I have the XDCAM HD at the moment unfortunately not at hand, but can stop the next time like the start time.
That would be very helpful, thank you once already! But bear in mind that the best buffer no use, so long as the mill is not yet fully started. I have what people of 30 to 60 seconds told.
"Anonymous" wrote:
Alone, the advantage that I the material as opposed to no-longer BetaSP complicated record on my editing system must make the price of the disc Prof. almost right again.
Since you have absolutely right, of course, synonymous for me Eindigitalisieren before cutting the most unpleasant part of the work is. Nevertheless, one should not lose sight of the material, if synonymous, the difference may be "only" 1,000 or 2,000 is EUR per year. I can enjoy quite synonymous s.klein sums, and if I can save EUR 2,000 at EUR 2,000 Material and again when filling up, there are already 4,000 EUR. I will make three to four years and I've earned so that the HD-Lens ... :-)
Matthias
Antwort von Markus:
"Matthias" wrote:
... stands for XDCAM HD, that the system works with 1440 by 1080 pixels. What's that for an aspect ratio?
DVCProHD actually delivers only 1280 × 1080 pixels, for 4:2:2-Farbsampling ... see synonymous professional question: switching to high-resolution technique. The hope that my future HD format with square pixels would be defined, I had buried long ago. Maybe yes but film the HDX900 and in 720/50p? ;-)
Until I decide would be (, n) must, in whatever system I invest a lot of water still flows down the river Main.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Markus" wrote:
The hope that my future HD format with square pixels would be defined, I had buried long ago.
The Ikegami Editcam delivers full 1920 x 1080 pixels, but it costs twice as synonymous of the PDW-F350 and one depends on the Avid DNxHD codec, which is certainly very fine, but even the spontaneous transfer of material (; views on the way back stop on a channel) makes it difficult.
But if, for example, the RBB and upgrade the ARD Berlin Studios effect that such information can s.wenigstens gated a spot in the house, saw the thing again from different.
Matthias
Antwort von HeikoS:
Interesting for you could then certainly synonymous, the GV Infinity, for times when it appears ...
Antwort von Pianist:
"Heiko" wrote:
Interesting for you could then certainly synonymous, the GV Infinity, for times when it appears ...
Exactly, the thing I have been synonymous for some time in the eye, but now it must be delivered only once and the people to gain first practical experience, then I'll look at synonymous times at close range. Yes it announced with a list price of 20,000 euros, is also on a par with the XDCAM HD and will cost half the Ikegami Editcam HD. I find such exotic solutions always quite good, so if you're so open and flexible as possible. Because that makes people more curious, because they can not immediately put into a certain drawer.
Matthias
Antwort von HeikoS:
I see as synonymous. If the part can really, what the promise and the necessary support of the part is replaced by Apple, Avid and his cohorts, it is certainly more than worth considering.
Antwort von PowerMac:
"Markus" wrote:
(, ...) Even DVCProHD delivers only 1280 × 1080 pixels, for 4:2:2-Farbsampling ... (, ...)
That is wrong. In 60i it is 1280x1080, but 1440x1080 at 50i.
Antwort von HeikoS:
But even that has not been previously upgesampled. The Varicam for example, has only 1 million pixels per chip.
Antwort von Markus (unangemeldet):
"PowerMac" wrote:
"Markus" wrote:
(, ...) Even DVCProHD delivers only 1280 × 1080 pixels, for 4:2:2-Farbsampling ... (, ...)
That is wrong. In 60i it is 1280x1080, but 1440x1080 at 50i.
This info I had (from an official source; Panasonic) ... but must be checked out! ;-)
Antwort von PowerMac:
Some time ago I had to discuss with schonmal nem other type around here. But who does not want to believe ... There are a lot of false information and half-knowledge in the professional sector. Especially the people who only know the cameras of Web-descriptions, one must believe it to read to pass half-knowledge. http://www.mediacollege.com/video/format/dv/dvcprohd.html http://dvinfo.net/conf/archive/index.php/t-45245.html In Final Cut Pro, which supports DVCPRO HD, 50i and 60i differ only in the same horizontal resolution. This follows mathematically synonymous. The data rate of DVCPRO HD tape-at 1080i is 100 Mbps. 1440x1080x50ix8Bit @ 4:2:2 = 100 Mbps 1280x1080x59.98ix8Bit @ = 4:2:2. [/ List]
Antwort von r.p. television:
1440x1080 is actually the default scanning in HD with 1080i or p. And although no preference whether HDV, XD CAM HD or HD-CAM or CAM HD CineAlta (, 24p). (The issue, through Component or HDMI etc.9 is in 1920x1080. But that has nothing to do with the actual recording. The pixels are prior to the issue with the aspect ratio of elongated horizontally 1.33. Without having reviewed it, I'm actually pretty sure that the Ikegami Editcam synonymous only 1440x1080 recording and is merely the output to 1920x1080. On the Sonybiz.net Page is for example the HD CAM camcorder synonymous misleadingly output 1920x1080. But until now, is recorded with a maximum of 1440x1080, synonymous, the most expensive HD CAM. But I am quite happy to teach better of it .....
Antwort von Pianist:
"rp television" wrote:
On the Sonybiz.net Page is for example the HD CAM camcorder synonymous misleadingly output 1920x1080. But until now, is recorded with a maximum of 1440x1080, synonymous, the most expensive HD CAM. But I am quite happy to teach better of it .....
We must as well leave you to the details of the Manufacturer, because the number of pixels likely to check itself is not reliable. I am pretty damn about the pixel count, incidentally, for me is just the visible result. So you have to be very extensive Anschau make experiments and find out which combination is the best. Probably in the coming months, the rapidly increasing practical experience, because it can be delivered in a few days the first Editcam HD, s.Kunden And indeed, the losarbeiten so immediately. I am very excited and will be synonymous in the spring time, a XDCAM HD antesten. While for me apart from the actual presentation quality synonymous to the questions "noise performance in low light" and "continued use of existing 2/3-Inch-Lenses" are of great importance. Now is only a short time the editing suite renewed after ten years and is then open for everything anyway.
Matthias
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
First of: (;
Antwort von Pianist:
"Surreptitious Michel" wrote:
First of: (;
Najaaaaa - so I do not think that there will be over the next ten years, more than 1920 by 1080 pixels. Presumably it will take only once until everyone has something. And then you probably should upgrade only the human eye, so that further improvements are worthwhile.
Incidentally, I'm less concerned with television and its viewers. For me, HD is only interesting because my films run mostly at fairs and events where it is of course great if you can shine there with the best technical quality. And it is precisely in these applications that's synonymous s.ehesten possible because one can take that to the complete signal path control.
Matthias
Antwort von HeikoS:
Ikegami speaks of full-screen and gives more than 2 million pixels per chip. That speaks for native 1920x1080
Antwort von Pianist:
"Heiko" wrote:
Ikegami speaks of full-screen and gives more than 2 million pixels per chip. That speaks for native 1920x1080
I see as synonymous. Only when the investment is to me a little dizzy, so the subscription price was 44.000 EUR, the regular price but now at 54,000 EUR plus EUR 6,000 for the viewfinder, so it makes 60,000 euros. Perhaps an existing broadcast can be continued using lens but that must then be considered on a case of individual cases. If you can work with the mill back ten years, are the 6,000 per year, so s.dem eighth day of shooting per year, one is already in the pros. Since I have an average of 50 shooting days per year, which should be s.sich no problem.
Matthias
Antwort von Gast1:
"Pianist" wrote:
Najaaaaa - so I do not think that there will be over the next ten years, more than 1920 by 1080 pixels. Presumably it will take only once until everyone has something. And then you probably should upgrade only the human eye, so that further improvements are worthwhile.
Now s.Wochenende will opt for me to distinguish how far really HDV and HDCAM. Film entirely on HDCAM (; with Pro35) and nachgedreht intro for a few scenes in HDV ... did the intro in AU than HD-Project and with Magic Bullet de-interlaced and then pull it into the Avid DS to the rest of the film in 1-1 times .... see how it aufm HD monitor and then downconverted looks on DVD ner ...
'm Curious about, but the HDV footage is synonymous only by Tripod rotated, the infamous panning and motion blur of the MPEG2 codec, I could not test yet ...
Greeting padde
Antwort von thedirector:
"Heiko" wrote:
Ikegami speaks of full-screen and gives more than 2 million pixels per chip. That speaks for native 1920x1080
This Auflsöung have a synonymous of chips HDCAM (; 2.2Mio pixels) or Viper, but this does not mean that in 1920 by 1080 is synonymous aufgezeichent. The only thing I know what recording format in 1920 by 1080 pixel aufzeichent is HDCAM SR or Festpalltenrecorder.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Anonymous" wrote:
The only thing I know what recording format in 1920 by 1080 pixel aufzeichent is HDCAM SR or Festpalltenrecorder.
Exactly, exactly the case with the Editcam HD.
Matthias
Antwort von PowerMac:
"rp television" wrote:
1440x1080 is actually the default scanning in HD with 1080i or p. And although no preference whether HDV, XD CAM HD or HD-CAM or CAM HD CineAlta (, 24p). (, ...)
That is not correct. DVCPRO HD in the States, for example, 1280x1024, HDCAM SR is always 1920x1080. By the way, means something different than the sampling system-internal storage of pixels. The scanning would HDCAM, for example, 3:1:1.
Antwort von Jürgen F.:
"... Now is only a short time restored the editing suite after ten years and is then open for everything anyway. ..."
Hello "Pianist" open to all? that, but can be expensive! What is the child supposed to name? So at times serious. Relating to the discussion here is indeed well advanced. Many entries are only half truths. (; Power MAC has already led) to what some truth to it. Granted, the broadcaster - Sony, Panasonic, GM, and like all of them hot - make it possible for users, no preference whether the sender or production companies, not easy. Otherwise we would have long been synonymous a standard. Add to that the PAL and NTSC world. For years Sonyallen has dangled native HD 1929x1080/50i/25p on HDCAM - tape store, until one has counted once. Only briefly - without boring the forum with numbers - which you can read anywhere. Without Prefiltering and HDCAM compression here is nothing. What remains is a sampling of 3:1:1. If überroffen of DVCPRO HD, despite only 1 million pixel chip with a sampling rate of 3:1,5:1,5. This is not an evaluation of the format. Even HDCAM SR in 4:4:4 RGB mode itself nor a data compression. How are the data rates look only at 1080/50p. You can even expand the discussion synonymous: As the material 720/25p or 50p looks compared 1080/50i/25p etc. alternatively a plasma in a projection, and conversely, .. For each user, and to find his clients the right here - really hard. Unfortunately, type (in this case, the bellwether, broadcasters synonymous) before a format. As of 1986 Sony had it easy until the end of BetaSP and was in the dark forest "top dog". This is only the host side, as it will look like in the post. How does the customer wants to take his dearly-bought product? On a plasma, in the projection, or perhaps with a CRT? But Matthias, if your clientele is Messepresentation anyway, but then you can with HD - no preference which format to shine - but only if it is currently synonymous only one DVD. The Editcam HD you but you have zeroed on an island solution. Only an AVID codec pity. But is synonymous compressed. To the old lenses: yes, I had recommended before. Let them try, to the relevant vendor on HD capability and compares them with HD lenses. (; I go any tires that are synonymous to 190km / h. 230km to go on a car) Ok. Comparison of the lame!
As a recommendation for anyone interested: Once a year there in Munich in June, the "digital cinematography", a one-day event where it's all about HDTV. Recommend everyone who is interested in this topic. Here you can see synonymous DV, HDV, HDCAM, HD DVCPR in the extraordinarily good projection.
Regards Jürgen F.
Antwort von Gast1:
@ PowerMac Interesting to read how easily the "pros" of pixel number crunching to impress. The more pixels the more professional? You obviously know your way in the various techniques and their benefits from. Did not you want time to make a brief specific description of the different sampling, transportation, conversion of the different cameras and recording systems with a few keywords to their advantages and disadvantages? A few notes on the physical "constraints" would certainly be helpful synonymous.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Jürgen F." wrote:
Unfortunately, type (in this case, the bellwether, broadcasters synonymous) before a format.
One of which is expected in the coming years because nothing that I have now understood. When I later times on HD and will deliver to turn somewhere spontaneously what I was doing it into a 16:9 anamorphic and there as usual with a beta SP cassette from that will still work for many years, especially since-and IMX Digibeta machines which reflect outstanding. About high-definition format is not in the ARD so far outside of theatrical productions, at times loud thinking.
But for my clients, I could even score points with HD. And if my stern eye soon comes to the conclusion that XDCAM HD is sufficient, then I save in Comparison to Editcam even a little money. I suspect that I can in the coming months to gain some experience.
Matthias
Antwort von Pianist:
"Gast1" wrote:
Interesting to read how easily the "pros" of pixel number crunching to impress. The more pixels the more professional? You obviously know your way in the various techniques and their benefits from. Did not you want time to make a brief specific description of the different sampling, transportation, conversion of the different cameras and recording systems with a few keywords to their advantages and disadvantages? A few notes on the physical "constraints" would certainly be helpful synonymous.
He has my blessing - I let myself be impressed unwillingly synonymous of computer arts, for me in this area is really what I see as Endergebis. However, this issue certainly seems to be a hornet's nest when I look at what anger there was in the Wikipedia in this subject area, up to the blocking of users.
Matthias
Antwort von Chezus:
The more I read the more more contradictions emerge.
The important thing is what comes out comes. When I film a bunch of crap helps me the most expensive camera nix. I wait at least put up the storm and the "Great" on what more or less uniform agreed.
If the pros can not even agree on how the consumer will then be draus smart? No wonder that none of the difference between HD and HDV knows (; what in the thread actually) goes
Antwort von Pianist:
"Chezus" wrote:
I wait at least put up the storm and the "Great" on what more or less uniform agreed.
As you can wait a long time, the case will not happen. Since everyone must make the decision itself, which for him, his orders and his clients s.besten fits.
Matthias
Antwort von Gast1:
"Chezus" wrote:
I wait at least put up the storm and the "Great" on what more or less uniform agreed.
Since you will, I think I have to wait a while. HD is not mature yet been exhausted. I guess in the next 1 to 2 years, so force some format variations or even new formats and technologies emerge and the (; premature?) Content to producers-and retrofitting. Over the next 2 to 4 years will then form so slow some standards. This is synonymous with the time frame of public broadcasters, which operate their own even a complete "production line", which they can not replace all the 2 years. In some countries, Valter want s.2010, s.2012 other "send full" produce in HD /.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Gast1" wrote:
In some countries, Valter want s.2010, s.2012 other "send full" produce in HD /.
You forget to mention that it is in these countries do not have the Federal Republic of Germany. Moreover, it is your statement that there will be in the coming years, probably even some new format, fairly meaningless. This is roughly comparable to, if in a car forum says that it will probably be in the coming years, additional emission standards. So please make assumptions unless you have concrete evidence. Coffee readers, we do not need.
Matthias
Antwort von Jürgen F.:
Chezus, I do not understand! The "title" but it says it: "HDV has nothing to do with HD!" And if you had closely studied the contributions ... HDV is MPEG-2 GOP interframe compression specifically for DV tapes with all the pitfalls ... at 720p = 1280x720 = 18:1 = 4:2:0 (; 18mbs) = 18:1 = 4:2:0 at 1080i = 1440x1080 (; 25Mbs).
HDCAM (; 4:1-with Prefilters 7:1) DCT, compr. 3:1:1 (; 185mbs) 1920x1080 DVC PRO HD as 720/50p (; 1280x720) and 1080i both 1980x1080 with 100Mbs / 6,7:1 / 3:1,5:1,5. But there are plenty of readings and lectures synonymous synonymous in the network. But as I said the whole topic of HDTV is not so easy, especially not for the consumer. And somehow we've suspected it all: They all have HD panels / receiver, but now there is no sender / advertiser / Programs. It is standardized everything: HD-DVD and BR-disc. Satellite transmission of MPEG-4H264 un 1080i (; or at 720/50p) ... and since it is starting all over again! Beautiful evening! Jürgen F.
Antwort von TheBubble:
My contribution is to relate less to a camera selection, but, to match the thread topic, as to what "HD". Some details, such as the Chroma subsampling and interlacing, before I leave outside, so my contribution will not be much longer.
With HD are often referred to certain formats and frame rates. Here, there is a ceiling. The highest Picture-/Videoqualität that one would previously described with HD, would be 1920 * 1080p at 60fps. An ideal screen should be able to play these resolutions and refresh rates. This particular image formats and frame rates have their origin in the current HDTV standard.
Theoretically, one could vary (of course, synonymous formats, like you find videos s.PC synonymous with (; create almost) any size can). As always synonymous: There have been set for the transmission of some television format and these are used mostly synonymous. This limitation will probably come by the desire to be able to develop the most cost-Play hardware, at the best possible compatibility.
Since the uncompressed data set is large, be used for data reduction and compression techniques. With HDTV broadcasts come here usually MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 AVC is used. For the transmission of HDTV image data to the receiver is a transport method used, for example DVB-S2. The recipient uses these data then makes one picture and then this dar.
Now for some recording techniques and media:
The best known are (; or will be) certainly HD DVD and Blue-ray Disc Both can (with videos in resolutions and refresh rates to cope with up to the upper limit of what was allowed HDTV, so 1920 * 1080p). The used MPEG-2 codec must not be (and it is as synonymous VC-1 allowed).
For many here in the forum HDV 1080i is interesting because it is used of many cameras. Since the tape speed is constant, it uses a fixed data rate. Compressed into MPEG-2, the maximum image resolution is 1440 * 1080 (; non-square) pixels. The full potential horizontal sharpness of HDTV broadcast in 1920 * 1080s format therefore can not be achieved. If the output device does not anamorphic but only square pixels (; which apply to most likely), then scaled up to 1920 samples on display in the width will be. In addition, HDV allowed (one synonymous 720p resolution; synonymous when most cameras 1080i) prefer.
So I think that HDV can definitely be called a "high definition".
In addition to the "consumer" HDV format, there are synonymous professional recording formats. But here are not used necessarily synonymous 1920 pixels per line. XDCAM uses such as HDV (1440 pixels per line; Source: http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/markets/10014/xdcam_overview.shtml).
But no preference, which recording format to use: this is exhausted, the camera must be held by so many independent pixels are delivered as the respective recording format allows. In addition, the dependent of a camera recorded the quality synonymous of another important component that is not often discussed: the internal implementation of the codec.
PS: You can "HD or not HD tie" synonymous s.der number of lines. Similar to how a PAL can sit horizontally Picture synonymous lower resolution than is the norm than hergibt, the number of lines is not mandatory.
PPS: UHDTV has already been suggested ;-)
Antwort von Pianist:
"TheBubble" wrote:
But no preference, which recording format to use: this is exhausted, the camera must be held by so many independent pixels are delivered as the respective recording format allows. In addition, the dependent of a camera recorded the quality synonymous of another important component that is not often discussed: the internal implementation of the codec.
And from Lens. And the cameraman.
Matthias
Antwort von Gast1:
[quote = "pianist"]
"Gast1" wrote:
... So please give guesses unless you have concrete evidence. Coffee readers, we do not need.
Matthias
Paradox. If I have concrete evidence, I do not need to think longer :-) Obs is Kaffesatzlesen? The digital format story is that way. By D2Mac to HD, one-chip to 3chip now with tens of different sample-and even more compression. Since it would be my opinion wrong to pretend that everything was s.sofort only static or at least no major changes are possible.
@ TheBubble
Find your post fine. For me, HD is not standard, but only a term / name. For television receivers, there are currently with "half-and full HD" two standards for cameras and everything else, there are no rules except the physics. So I can basically everything that was greater than dissolved PAL call HD. No matter how I'm getting the resolution. Nor does such a good hammer is not a good house builders HD mE guaranteed synonymous not just any high / higher quality.
Antwort von r.p. television:
The storm will never lie. They will never be on the safe page. Not even if 1 or two years waiting to be the best and most widely used system for sale. It is already working s.2k and 4k cameras to record on hard disks and in different formats or codes. I speak now not of this RED camera or how to say. If you buy, for example, in one years after a long wait XD CAM HD, you can be quickly frustrated if shortly thereafter with 50p native is 1920x1080, or even a 4k system dropped to almost the same price on the market. It is likely that once a consumer camcorder break the barrier and the professional camp alone will have to follow suit because of the s.Stammtisch above figures. Perhaps there in two years of the 750 HD CAM Sonyschon at dumping prices on Ebay, simply because it native 1080p or 4k, etc. in a more efficient codec available. Skip to file-based hard disk. Perhaps even the not very well known Ikegami Editcam of the Holy Grail until then?
Long waits at security is on the page to be synonymous backfire. For the period in which the purchased system has delivered the best image quality for its time, it's over and we have spent too much money subjectively.
Clearly then, the new system will not be mature. It will initially be no media for passing on or processing. And there will be the inquisitors, the new system s.liebsten want to send to hell - because they feel with their now outdated system übertöpelt.
The periods during which one must possess Euipment / can, which is to date the time is getting shorter.
It can be used as small-scale deliverer of HD material is difficult to hope that the conjecture is to vote and actually established 1080i and not just a short-term interim solution. So we can all Konsumten who purchase a Full HD Plasma thank, 1080i receiver and a Blue-ray or HD-DVD player. For that make sure that we soon can orient s.einem standard.
Otherwise, it may miss one or the other the death blow. Because not everyone will infllationären the value of his dearly-bought camera technology can cope when a new master system will be thrown on the market, which is defined as the standard.
Antwort von Pianist:
"rp television" wrote:
Perhaps even the not very well known Ikegami Editcam of the Holy Grail until then?
After that, it looks to me at least very strong. As the next few weeks are very exciting because the first five Editcam HD will be delivered to Berlin and then once synonymous with the devices will losgearbeitet. From then begin the practical experience.
Matthias
Antwort von wolfgang:
"rp television" wrote:
It can be used as small-scale deliverer of HD material is difficult to hope that the conjecture is to vote and actually established 1080i and not just a short-term interim solution. So we can all Konsumten who purchase a Full HD Plasma thank, 1080i receiver and a Blue-ray or HD-DVD player. For that make sure that we soon can orient s.einem standard.
So this normalization you already today, the HD-ready devices can actually stop processing means all 720p and 1080i as input. Together with the HDV cameras to sit down rather than 1080i consumer format in the saddle, I think.
I expect really as the next logical step before even the development towards full HD - that is 1080i with 1920x1080, but whether that will prevail in the medium term, broad-based one to see. If so, then dauerts yet - and will eingeleutet the consumer area, only with the upcoming JVC Everio 7, on the camera side.
With 1080p as input siehts a lot of insecure - synonymous Bluray and HD-DVD is in this respect are still a lark. Even more so when these devices go only so far with 60i or 60p. Here is the format war rather only adds to uncertainty, together with the high prices, many customers wait, according to the gradually increasing market penetration.
But in sum, the trend towards HD no longer be reversed - and HDV is still is a good consumer format to get a small business or in the private one gscheit quality. Since the mouse does not bite off more yarn, which has long been so.
Antwort von TheBubble:
"rp television" wrote:
It can be used as small-scale deliverer of HD material is difficult to hope that the conjecture is to vote and actually established 1080i and not just a short-term interim solution.
My guess: Basically, all "smaller" (; "small" within the meaning of a spatially and temporally low-resolution version) HDTV format, an intermediate stage on the way to 1080p 50/60. That is what keeps them instantly or IMO (the higher memory requirements, or the required data rate for transmission) and the higher requirements s.The digital image processing. Those who take up in this format, can any other smaller size just as you infer, therefore has the greatest flexibility.
As soon as CRT monitors are no longer relevant, are interlaced format IMO only a compromise with obstacles, and the trend is going in the direction of full frames.
Also one can hope that they will one day agree on a common frame rate, but that is another issue;)
Antwort von Pianist:
"TheBubble" wrote:
Also one can hope that they will one day agree on a common frame rate, but that is another issue;)
You can demonstrate against synonymous continental drift.
Matthias
Antwort von PowerMac:
Demonstrate and some are two different beasts. The picture does not quite fit. I can well imagine that you are in a few years ago agreed to 60p.
Antwort von Pianist:
"PowerMac" wrote:
Demonstrate and some are two different beasts. The picture does not quite fit. I can well imagine that you are in a few years ago agreed to 60p.
In Europe? At 50 Hz line frequency? The are far too many problems.
Matthias
Antwort von PowerMac:
60 years ago, there were these problems, perhaps ...
We live in the 21 Century. The world is digital. Monitor, computer monitor, LCD / Plasma Television - All 60 Hz makes absolutely no problem with digital techniques to change the refresh rate. The network frequency of the power system is completely irrelevant for digital content. Whether you are a computer (; = today's television) or a Playoutcenter of 50 Hz to 60 Hz switch, which is someting of no preference. On the contrary, the picture would be better because you would have the finite frame rate native to the media reception.
Antwort von Pianist:
"PowerMac" wrote:
The network frequency of the power system is completely irrelevant for digital content.
Wiedergabeseitig this is true for non-tube equipment, but not aufnahmeseitig. How do you want to add flicker, for example, the floodlights of a football stadium? It will then be constantly and everywhere just need time to fathom whether the light is flickering or not, I ask myself extremely annoying before. Just as earlier in the Berlin S-Bahn. With the eye that's all to be seen, only by the camera.
No, that is, in a 50-Hz refresh rate, the country has also 50 Hz. And in the U.S. and Japan just 60 Hz
Matthias
Antwort von Eva Maier:
Some time ago I have my views this flat screens and noticed that are entirely internal internatonal, then convert the signal then, as they need it.
s
Antwort von PowerMac:
Tosh! ;)
If it flickers, they will just have to use lights flicker. In an emergency, you can change the shutter synonymous.
Antwort von Pianist:
"PowerMac" wrote:
If it flickers, they will just have to use lights flicker. In an emergency, you can change the shutter synonymous.
We're not here but in Hollywood, where one has to take it in the wild already views the opportunity to influence the Lighting? Not s.Theater, not in the stadium, not in buildings ... And I'm just pondering whether a Clear scan any of below 50 Hz (; and then works back later, 60 Hz). So whether it would be possible to einzutakten with 60-Hz technology at 50-Hz light. I doubt
Matthias
Antwort von thedirector:
So I have with my HC1 in the U.S. have taken a few photos and noticed the flicker on the screen the picture. I then put the camera easily to 1 / 60 shutter speed, which has helped somewhat but not completely eliminate the flicker. But the idea of a purely ago, when a light or fluorescent light with 50 Hz alternating voltage is run and I guess with 60 frames per second recording, I'm unsyncron to 50Hz.
s.Rande little note: 1 / 50 = 0.02 sec long a wavelength 1 / 60 = 0.016 sec "
The problem (; flickering) arises precisely when the sine curve intersects the 50 Hz, the X-axis and the same time a picture is exposed. Without now next calculated how often that occurs in one second is clearly synonymous with the increase of the shutter, the effect of the flickering slightly veringert but still come to the about-mentioned case can.
Antwort von Pianist:
"Anonymous" wrote:
Without now next calculated how often that occurs in one second is clearly synonymous with the increase of the shutter, the effect of the flickering slightly veringert but still come to the about-mentioned case can.
Even. And in contrast to the single ended on a PC monitor, which indeed works very well with a good viewfinder, it will be this kind of flickering can not always reliably detect and assess the viewfinder.
Another situation: The 15,000 volts with 16 2 / 3 Hz scatter in the railway sector, although in the viewfinder, a but not in the camera. It thus has a shaky picture, even though the recording is fine. Also because you have to get used times. The camera head itself is deflected only in the engine compartment of an ICE a little.
Matthias
Antwort von Otwin:
Hi folks,
I would like to discuss it briefly. For one, I win here in parts also seems as if one with a 1000, - Euro DV camcorder or a 1500, - Euro HDV camcorder to a group of miserable hell that may participate, although quite nice s.Thema "shooting", but not more.
A film assembly based can be creatively assembled far more useful and more accurate on a standard DV camera raw material, than a bad one built from raw material 10000, - Euro camcorder.
Ultimately, then, is the creativity is still an A and O.
Secondly, it's no preference what name the child carries. At least for the masses s.Amateur, Hobbyfilmern.
The recordings in HDV with my SonyHC1 typifies quality s.LCD are regarded of the clarity, sharpness and resolution produces fantastic.
In any event, so well that a really well-made Spiderman or whatever synonymous always s.geilem DVD movie even on a really good DVD player s.Qualität has a disadvantage compared to what I should capture s.Qualität with my HC1 and spending on LCD can.
Years ago, each of which had yet dreamed in Consumer Applications with only his camcorder. And you ought to see here that so much is doomed. A perfectly ordinary camcorder user has the ability to shoot a film, which lies high above the level which is currently offered on first-class DVD shoot.
This is synonymous ripped off a lot, is fucked, is covered up, is always and always will be. In everything.
So no preference, which means vergleichseise s.end HDV to HD, the fact is what rüberwächst. That someone who has to spend 1500, - Euro to 2000, - Euro ready, now has the opportunity to qualitatively vozustoßen in a top league, is still great.
If one could find fault with something, it would in my opinion, the fact that an HDV movie recorded and processed not synonymous nor qualitative in the program as it currently is feasible as a final result on DVD. At least, not usual in the ordinary sense.
Or that with an AVCHD in the next moment, nothing through the cutting and burning can be done as synonymous outcome.
Such things make me rather ill. Just that I already purchased quality can not or do so only on circumstantial completely blank.
Greeting Otwin
Antwort von wolfgang:
"Otwin" wrote:
Hi folks,
I would like to discuss it briefly. For one, I win here in parts also seems as if one with a 1000, - Euro DV camcorder or a 1500, - Euro HDV camcorder to a group of miserable hell that may participate, although quite nice s.Thema "shooting", but not more.
THANK YOU - the HDV videographers are here hold only tolerated, with the SD-speaking filmmakers is safer not more ... ;)))
"Otwin" wrote:
Ultimately, then, is the creativity is still an A and O.
Secondly, it's no preference what name the child carries. At least for the masses s.Amateur, Hobbyfilmern.
Just as it is. A bad movie, no preference in what format, is a bad film.
"Otwin" wrote:
The recordings in HDV with my SonyHC1 typifies quality s.LCD are regarded of the clarity, sharpness and resolution produces fantastic.
In any event, so well that a really well-made Spiderman or whatever synonymous always s.geilem DVD movie even on a really good DVD player s.Qualität has a disadvantage compared to what I should capture s.Qualität with my HC1 and spending on LCD can.
Years ago, each of which had yet dreamed in Consumer Applications with only his camcorder.
Only apparently are not granted this pedestrian dreams. On the one hand there are the countless pseudo-critics who have no experience with HDV know, but to balance very carefully what kind of a shit to be. And then joined by professionals who deride the format, because there is too little professional.
Extinct until a strain is, and the second has learned that you do not need to fear from HDV to death, I go in the meantime would rather shoot - in HDV. And enjoy the amazing videos I've shot this year as in the U.S. and unforgettable memories for the family.
"Otwin" wrote:
So no preference, which means vergleichseise s.end HDV to HD, the fact is what rüberwächst. That someone who has to spend 1500, - Euro to 2000, - Euro ready, now has the opportunity to qualitatively vozustoßen in a top league, is still great.
Well you will not be able to advance into the top league - HDV is and remains a consumer format. But one gets when observing a few rules, a quality that has to stop the amateur and small commercial filmmaker Heimandwender was not feasible. And that is and remains a step forward, no preference, however much it may annoy other people.
"Otwin" wrote:
If one could find fault with something, it would in my opinion, the fact that an HDV movie recorded and processed not synonymous nor qualitative in the program as it currently is feasible as a final result on DVD. At least, not usual in the ordinary sense.
But that is far from feasible. It is possible in a conventional DVD blanks native m2t burn HDV2 material. This material can take place smoothly and in full HD resolution - s.Xoro HSD 8500, although this phenomenon has received relatively difficult, because obviously the demand is much higher than the quantity produced. Even with native m2t material halt fit about 22 minutes on a standard 4.3 GB disc, a dual-layer disc sinds 40 minutes. Menus will not stop - but it works! The matter otherwise excellent.
Antwort von Pianist:
"wolfgang" wrote:
Well you will not be able to advance into the top league - HDV is and remains a consumer format. But one gets when observing a few rules, a quality that has to stop the amateur and small commercial filmmaker Heimandwender was not feasible. And that is and remains a step forward, no preference, however much it may annoy other people.
This is exactly what we may like some, because I am absolutely agree.
Matthias
Antwort von wolfgang:
Just do not stop now to solve your problem, Matthias. Those who know all about HDV intense that even before knowing that this is so. Only s.Markt many customers always know the difference does not stop.
Antwort von Axel:
Also in the consumer sector will be handle with removable hard disks. They will also work with uncompressed HD, each pixel is defined (at any 60tel seconds progressive recording, because that one will agree). In the meantime, the professionals will be with 4k or more to work with. Each pixel is a separate lens in nano-size, which defines the position of the pixel on the Z-axis. How exactly this will be defined, which will be the resolution to issue it.
As this course, science fiction, we are left only consumers of HDV as annoying transitional format, and it is up to everyone, even to speculate, for how many years. I'd bet on a further five. Because I want to make at this time continue my shit, I must deal with HDV modest, at least less messed up than the starting material as AVCHD or any other scrap metal.
These discussions have not been previously conducted in Internet forums, which is why some people believe s.eine new problem. In fact, nothing changes. IT was a compromise, and it has served us quite well. We could live with the disadvantages, and there was nothing to be synonymous us differently.
The attacks of professionals against a consumer format would happen not even if the format would be the question.
Antwort von wolfgang:
Hmm, may well be that there are less than 5 years.
Is clear, you will be able to film so well for so long - but already in April, so get the JVC Everio HD7 that records, at least in full-HD. What I expect of the times, but not significantly better quality than we get today of an A1, Z1 and FX1 - the data rates are not significantly higher. We'll see.
Quote:
The attacks of professionals against a consumer format would happen not even if the format would be the question.
That is probably a true point - I think these protests against Video8 gabs not, which should only have come with the digital recording.
And in addition to the attacks of professionals gibts interestingly - as in DV - the attacks from the camp of the consumer who still want to stick with the old technology. Nothing new, witch burnings are just always come back into fashion. :)
Antwort von Axel:
"wolfgang" wrote:
Hmm, may well be that there are less than 5 years ... [...] ... is in April so the JVC Everio HD7 come, the records, at least in full-HD.
Even. Technically, the format and resolution even possible, they are just too bulky for the processors, storage medium and a standard PC reworking. Or will they, as here, so badly compressed that a 720p JVC Recording of the older sister looks better (; of the lenses, the connections and processing) to mention. But in a few years ...
Here, then gets the arrogant snorting of professionals towards prosumers its equivalent. The material of such an Everio can yet be useful only for the holidays.
