Frage von scrooge:
Salü together
what is here and elsewhere about so-25p progressive recording or reading is not exactly suited to a clear decision as to whether you have now in 50i or 25p will rotate.
Sure seems to be that man for sports photography and other projects with many fast movements should interlace film. But otherwise I think the question of the proper mode is not clearly answered.
Stu Masch joke recommends Rebel Guide necessarily progressive filming. However, he lives in a NTSC country and writes that as a filmmaker, failing PAL synonymous interlaced and then deinterlace film can.
The company Swiss Effects (specialist for Filmausbelichtung) wrote me, I should with my cam (HV30) interlaced video. At the same time, they gave but synonymous, that they have not recorded with a progressive consumer Cam have tried.
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S.den Mod Note: Please do not thread into the HV30 forum move, I would like to issue a general discussion times
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Then write on the Video Active HV30:
"It is, however, canon-typically not a true 25p mode, but a chip from the progressive scan produced interlaced signal, which is recorded in HDV. When the playback is then the first half of the picture, then the others . Since only 25 images as real data are available, the picture appears in the typical progressive manner slightly jerky when panning and moving objects. Many fans will find this feature looks like. "
After all these confusing instructions, I would hope that it gives clear answers to the following questions:
1. What is a true 25p mode?
2. Is it the consumer cams and if so in what?
3. In which cases is the "fake" 25p mode of
Consumer Cams HV20/HV30 like to recommend and
when should you prefer 50i choose?
4. Is it really only a "certain look", or
There are technical reasons for synonymous Rotate in 25p?
5. Are there issues for a good article on the net?
Thank you in advance.
Greeting
Hartmut
Antwort von Axel:
Sure seems to be that man for sports photography and other projects with many fast movements should interlace film. This is no longer so clear. On a progressive working output device (LCD, plasma, computer, projector) generate fast movements interlace artifacts. Background of this "clear" advice, the better representation on the ollen tubes. Today we should say no more Interlace GAR, and 50p for sports photography.
Stu Masch joke recommends Rebel Guide necessarily progressive filming. However, he lives in a NTSC country and writes that as a filmmaker, failing PAL synonymous interlaced and then deinterlace film can. He is a Kinofan. He said that 30p video looks after more than 24p, and that we Europeans are to be envied for our 25p. He is right. 50p looks more like film than like video. It is technically better, but has a look like 50i. The look-issue we can not throw into the discussion, there's really only "opinions" and no facts.
The company Swiss Effects (specialist for Filmausbelichtung) wrote me, I should with my cam (HV30) interlaced video. At the same time, they gave but synonymous, that they have not recorded with a progressive consumer Cam have tried. Denen graut before video, which with all sorts of filters on film was pained look, which is the quality of the data in any case reduced. They are specialized to a neutral video with all video-typical values for Fazen adapt. They are expected to synonymous, interlace material to get. Admittedly, they can de-interlace - perforce, because film is nunmal 25p - but it is always, always, always made shitty. Dear original 25p material, or even predict with a very good deinterlacer iron out.
Since only 25 images as real data are available, the picture appears in the typical progressive manner slightly jerky when panning and moving objects. Many fans will find this feature looks like. These unsuspecting fans certainly have a few DVDs of Hollywood movies at home. Maybe James Bond? Bourne? Something with a lot of movement. These are in PAL countries, 25p. Jerky because it nostalgic? Please check times. Film cameras, the 24 B / s expose, are standard on a shutter of 1/48tel seconds. This is a relatively long exposure time, which leads to motion blur. At
exactly this time they do it but to an extent that the movement was very natural, flowing look like leaves. The HV20/30 now (and all) does not care about the fact that they are in "p" mode is only allowed to use shutter 1/50tel. The Filmfan goes in the sun, which provides the automatic shutter to 250, or what I know, and the motion blur is
actually off. Then it jerky.
It also jerky for a wrong swing speed. In the above action movies there are of course synonymous many camera movements. They are either infuriatingly slow (Steadicam, dolly) or very fast to fast. Everything in between does not fit on the 24/25 movement, it's jerky. The swing can be seen occasionally bucking synonymous with expensive shooting (when it respects).
1. What is a true 25p mode? s.Wenn the camera takes 25 stages (the good old VX2000 was 12.5 in the "p" mode), minimum requirement.
b) When the (CMOS) - Progressive chip is read out (XH-A1 does not)
c) If the recording codec "p" specifies (HDV2 not AVCHD yes)
2. Is it the consumer cams and if so in what? See above.
3. In which cases is the "fake" 25p mode of
Consumer Cams HV20/HV30 like to recommend to
Antwort von Daigoro:
In the above action movies there are of course synonymous many camera movements. They are either infuriatingly slow (Steadicam, dolly) or very fast to fast.
How clever Hollywood blockbusters with Bewegungsunschaerfe umgehet can zb trailers in the Ironman, which 1080p24's to download there.
Especially the scene where his Ironman hochfliegt driveway or garage where the tank shoots at him.
Played the film normally, the total liquid movement and we feel we really know about details - the blur deliberately take virtually nothing true.
Looking at the sequence as a single, it only really notice, as the blurred fast moving objects (the tank projectile are found in about 2 frames as shadowy line through's Picture zb).
One can recognize virtually garnicht of fast moving object, but the optical illusion of movement is fantastic.
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
Shorter exposure times for film cameras are common. It is perhaps unfortunate wording that Bewegungsunschärfen look at some help (a fortiori, the 12,5 fps with the VX2000). When the blur of motion picture "A" Picture seamlessly with "B" goes, you have an unusual, lubricating moving impression. This has nothing to do with film (it is not possible) and shall, on a large canvas wenns ONLY goes well for mild nausea. This does not mean however that it is not synonymous dramaturgically could use.
To understand the imaging procedure of Film:
zum Bild
Here you can see that for the film transport is one of the exposure time is equal to long interruption, the impression of movement movie has influenced. It is a naturally prejudice to those established aesthetics to resist.
An example of seamless exposure times, the sequence in the office building towards the end of "Collateral", where the motion blur.
And perhaps the best example of "i" and "p" is mixed with Michel Gondrys music for "Let Forever Be" by the Chemical Brothers, or the old Mr. Bean sketches (for my sake synonymous Loriot). There was in the studio working with video systems, and for outdoor shots with film (because it was easier).
Antwort von scrooge:
Schleich Hello Michel,
if I understand you correctly, then the only problem is the camcorder with 25p the fact that the auto shutter modes elect, instead of relying on 1 / 50 to fix.
That would mean the reverse, it is no longer there to film interlaced (not synonymous with sports photography), as long as the shutter at 1 / 50 and then fixes the brightness exclusively via Aperture regulates. Right?
Antwort von Daigoro:
That with the sport has fewer with i / p to do than with the number of images that are recorded.
50i are also 50 half-images, the fast movements dissolve differentiated than 25 full and 50 more than 50 full or 25 half-full.
And if you do analytical training, are you at 300 fps again quite different matters.
Antwort von MacPro:
This is no longer so clear. On a progressive working output device (LCD, plasma, computer, projector) generate fast movements interlace artifacts. Background of this "clear" advice, the better representation on the ollen tubes. Today we should say no more Interlace GAR, and 50p for sports photography.
If you have the choice between 25p and 50p would. This tip is therefore still for most users is not helpful. They have only the choice between 25p and 50i. And there is clearly advisable that what you just wrote about 50p, by analogy to 50i can be transferred. The Kammartefakte (due to not perfect deinterlacing on modern displays) are by far not as dramatic as the Stroboskopeffekt, by the time sub-sampling at 25p material.
Stu is a joke machine Kinofan. He said that 30p video looks after more than 24p, and that we Europeans are to be envied for our 25p. He is right. 50p looks more like film than like video. It is technically better, but has a look like 50i. The look-issue we can not throw into the discussion, there's really only "opinions" and no facts.
Exactly, and that is synonymous the only reason to 25p film. A question of aesthetics Picture ( "looks less from video")
Since only 25 images as real data are available, the picture appears in the typical progressive manner slightly jerky when panning and moving objects. Many fans will find this feature looks like. These unsuspecting fans certainly have a few DVDs of Hollywood movies at home. Maybe James Bond? Bourne? Something with a lot of movement. These are in PAL countries, 25p. Jerky because it nostalgic? Please check times. Film cameras, the 24 B / s expose, are standard on a shutter of 1/48tel seconds. This is a relatively long exposure time, which leads to motion blur. At exactly this time they do it but to an extent that the movement was very natural, flowing look like leaves. The HV20/30 now (and all) does not care about the fact that they are in "p" mode is only allowed to use shutter 1/50tel.
This jerky is not so strong, because as a whole rod s.Vollprofis s.Werk are the medium of film and the inadequacy of a 24/25p Recording know. This jerky is not as strong as scenic work means that all movements and attitudes to freely choose and so are the alternatives to decide which Geruckel (film Judd, strobing ..) s.wenigsten appear to be.
It is less jerky, because the cameras are a major recording sooviel chip have a Consumercam will ever have (because it is always less ..) and thus the focus selectively on a particular motive may be. If an object outside the focus, then it can move as it wants (eg, background on camera swing), it is absolutely not bucking.
But these are all possibilities that the amateur simply does not have.
The Filmfan goes in the sun, which provides the automatic shutter to 250, or what I know, and the motion blur is actually off. Then it jerky.
It also jerky for a wrong swing speed. In the above action movies there are of course synonymous many camera movements. They are either infuriatingly slow (Steadicam, dolly) or very fast to fast. Everything in between does not fit on the 24/25 movement, it's jerky. The swing can be seen occasionally bucking synonymous with expensive shooting (when it respects).
Even. But here is the question of an amateur, what attitude he should take. You do not ask Michael Ballhaus ....
50i should be w
Antwort von Axel:
@ MacPro:
Absolutely correct. You relativierst my statements in exactly the right dimensions, merci.
Antwort von scrooge:
Oops ... My demand is just not on a statement of creeping michel but of Axel, so again:
@ Axel:
If I understand you correctly, then the only problem is the camcorder with 25p the fact that the auto shutter modes elect, instead of relying on 1 / 50 to fix.
That would mean the reverse, it is no longer there to film interlaced, as long as the shutter at 1 / 50 and then fixes the brightness exclusively via Aperture regulates. Right?
@ MacPro:
That sounds again as if it is but definitely take a strobe-effect there (synonymous with 25p with 1 / 50 progressive and continuous processing and projection), so that cameramen in Hollywood must be trained to this effect contrary to the best possible effect.
Provocatively asked:
Was stimmt denn nun? Bucking or not?
Greeting
Hartmut
Antwort von Axel:
@ Scrooge
Both assumptions are correct. In plain English: The movement resolution in 25p is not unproblematic. One must take into account a lot. I wanted no confusion, only a few public places ( "p = poor, i = good") attack. I recommend their own tests to the right mode for you to find, taking into account the above aspects.
Antwort von scrooge:
At the same time with my last statement came even Axel's reply s.MacPro.
It is therefore a purely aesthetic point out 25p to use?
Is it not so that, for a possible film on the closing date of Kammartefakte recordings 50i partly problems facing synonymous a good adaptive deinterlacer only tinkering with it?
Greeting
Hartmut
Antwort von Axel:
Is it not so that, for a possible film on the closing date of Kammartefakte recordings 50i partly problems facing synonymous a good adaptive deinterlacer only tinkering can
A "good" is. I doubt that works in such a copy is known. In the movies, in which I work, I see an advertisement in so many Kammartefakte decreases, the only of "i" can be derived. There are quite a number of copying works. If someone inquires, respond by copying the work "This is the material of what we got you" (Black Peter-slicing).
If you already know that the target format film is, you have to anyway all the rules that prevent the strobe. Since you use an adaptive deinterlacer synonymous nothing. This applies particularly for synonymous and the Postpro. Animated graphics like the "news", the lower abdomen as a binder through: This is a ratio of speed, motion stages and Motion Blur and expresses itself - as in all - in compromises in readability, and avoidance of fluid Alias | Wavefront Mayaing. That should be everything in the fps of the target format created and evaluated.
Finally, a case for the work in "p" as a model synonymous for "i" to make: if we apply the same rules to Halbbildverfahren (swing speed, fixed shutter - then 1/100tel) are synonymous these better-quality recordings.
Antwort von scrooge:
Thanks Axel,
I think this is a very valuable tip for all filmmakers.
Greeting
Hartmut
