Frage von fabkei:
Hello - I'm just about to be informed. A few words about the Comparison here.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/ Canon -HG10-Camcorders-Review-33146/Comparisons--Conclusion.htm
That is what I have in the past rausgefunden Comparison - Please add:
- With the Canon HG 10 can be directly deleted scenes and therefore space on the hard drive without creating a PC / Mac handy to have!
Is synonymous with the SR7, see below ...
- Better pictures in the SR7 / 8
- Image quality of two very good and probably a matter of taste
- HG 10 is cheaper
Antwort von Marco:
Things that I have the decision in favor of the SR7 can expect, were USDI optional touch-screen point measurements of exposure or sharpness. Simple and safe taken sowas can hardly be.
Gruß Marco
Antwort von Marco:
On a note of Bernd way I have the ability to delete individual files in the video SR7 reviewed again, as synonymous, I assumed that this was not possible. Is it, however, as in the other thread about this description. So you can be wrong ...
Marco
Antwort von Marco:
Yet what the price. I do not know how the HG10 is traded at the time, but there are SR7 eg DVCut for Euro 1111.
Marco
Antwort von fabkei:
HG10 - Computer Universe 965 http://www.computeruniverse.net/products/90238228.asp?agent=185
SR7 - 1070 at http://www.homecultures.de/product_info.php?products_id=664
So 100 euros difference - Stand Oct 2007
Antwort von Marco:
Then you will be spoiled for choice. I think that basically give and take these two models are not much. SR s.der What I guess I have already written above. What I personally like very s.der HG10 is an optional 25p mode.
Marco
Antwort von fabkei:
Habe noch was found to SR7.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-SR7-First-Impressions-Review-29388.htm
That with the touch-screen point measurements sounds really good. Do I simply give it a try ...
- 25P makes for problems HG10 yes. Would like to know whether the Pal version is synonymous?
- Sound is in the SR7 better.
- SR7, writes the video assets, had no sharpness adjustment assistance.
- AVCHD is her Picture from Canon seem slightly better managed.
- Had synonymous like a few photos of the two cameras to view.
- Underwater Housing
For the SR7 gives it a waterproof up to 5m Sport Housing SPK-HCC inc
Lanc control and external micro-under 200 euros. In youtube there are already movies ...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=M4ZQQSyau_w&mode=related&search =
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NrvYdoa4V_w
The HG10 is Ewa Marine in the next few weeks as supply - costs about 280 euros.
Antwort von Marco:
"Sound in the SR7 should be better." At the sound of such cameras, or so I would not give much. The way the mics being built and installed and are about the fact that there is attempted, now synonymous nor the Camera surround sound to conjure up, of which I believe nothing. Who really value good sound sets, which use external microphones, at least, if not external recording devices. Sure, her sole responsibility of the frequency response are not too bad, but they often have a relatively high background noise and surround this pattern is simply misplaced s.einer Camera.
Accordingly, I have so far the sound of the next SR7 not inspected.
"SR7, writes the video assets, had no sharpness adjustment assistance." That is true, that she has not. But it needs thanks to the measurement point are not synonymous.
"Had synonymous like some photos of the two cameras to watch." You mean photos taken with the Photo function were shot by the Camera?
Basically, I could be happy and you make such by mail, but this I will be in the next few days, unfortunately, not come. I would like to compare times even photos with my digital camera, because I think that the photos of the SR are really good. Since the Canon but will probably not be synonymous.
Have you really no way to bring you these models in a shop somewhere and be a couple of functions to test themselves? That's better than only read about to leave.
Marco
Antwort von fabkei:
Since you have right - The Canon, the next few weeks, however, not yet in a store here in Darmstadt or Freiburg are - have already rumtelefoniert. The Sony review, I at times the days ... Thank you but for your trouble!
Bin generally after Wolfgang was told at about the next generation AVCHD cameras to be seen ... Or you can find the result (synonymous in Lowlight range) well and hardly improved?
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Fabkei
--- What info you have given on the problem of the 25p in the Canon?
Can you give me as a reference type?
Antwort von fabkei:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/ Canon HG10 Camcorder Review-33146.htm
Ohhh, here in Europe it's 25p and 24p do not, well then that is hopefully irrelevant, right?
Antwort von WoWu:
No, no, this is anything but irrelevant because it would be a minor sensation because 1080p/2525 is only in the AVC (Class 50 and 100) specified, whereas in the 1080p24 synonymous AVCHD is specified.
And that would of course be the hammer!
Because it has very significant implications ... When the camera makes it really, this is the ultimate winner.
Antwort von WoWu:
If someone has given reliable information about the camera in relation to 25p really does, I would be grateful for any hint.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ fabkei
... thanks for the link but there is now nothing more than 25p, while I am in one of the top links actually do something about 25p have read. But this little news article I think now no more and think that someone may have access to a reasonable product sheet, which gives reliable information.
Antwort von fabkei:
Here only the American ... The German Canon Page is a gray ...
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&tabact=DownloadDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=369&modelid=15617
http://www.golem.de/0708/53858.html
Antwort von fabkei:
@ WoWu, I now have almost all your posts AVCHD read and the book is still synonymous in the list: You're convinced of the format and have demonstrated what may yet come.
Can you imagine when the real advantages of the format and Canon Sonyzum bear come from?
Now where HDV has done for me, I'd like to know if I really have a new generation of camera should wait ... I would like to stop at just a camera.
@ Marco, why did you not have a generation of AVCHD Cams wait?
Antwort von Marco:
"Or you'll find the result (synonymous in Lowlight area) a little
and hardly improved?" I say something like this: I consider such a camera anyway just as a compromise and so only as a conditional use. For my purposes, so I get a good price-/Leistungsverhältnis. I felt more, I would have to spend at least threefold.
A Camera, which hardly improved, I do not know.
"why did you not have a generation of AVCHD Cams wait?" What exactly should I wait there? Better cameras are almost always of generation of generation. If you here and now needs a new camera, then you have the purpose and the requirements as accurately as possible and define here and now to take what these requirements are best met. Waiting only makes sense if you do not need at the moment anyway.
In addition, this camera has been on the second generation of AVCHD models and the maturity she remembers synonymous in terms of picture quality to.
Marco
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Fabkei
thanks for the links .... CANON s.interessantesten was the product map, where s.wenigsten "general stuff" and was a little more detail. Unfortunately again the figures speak for it, although I said that after ABVHD specify unfortunately there is precisely this specification but no 25p since it is here that only 30 and 25 in "i" and 24 in "p" specified .... So along the American model.
Now there are two possibilities, either the European models have something like the famous 4% Speedup function inside, which I hardly believe synonymous or they may simply put the 24.Picture 2x a what a eledige Ruckelei would mean. In addition, there will be no NLE wahrscheilich synonymous around the world that this so-produced format support.
Something else would be if Canon does not specify AVCHD would, but after High10 AVC-Class50, because there is the format of P25, although it is known as I-frame and specify only has 50 Mbit / s-a 10-bit signal. And that's of course!
Schön would have been if anywhere would have confessed that in Cine mode only half the recording time has ... the wär doch mal an indication ...
But I believe that the prospect because the inspections will not stand up again and someone has written something into it, what the marketing department he said.
Maybe get someone so soon once the camera and can report what it really is ...
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Fabkei
@ Marco
.. Once the typing errors of the last post, please ignore. I know PM Streuber the neck hairs ... but this time it must be rich.
Fabkei ... yes, I believe that this format for the first time since the old times FBAS to a cross-format which does not synonymous for a few years may hold for only about 4 years, the broadcasters exactly this format alignment. Seen you finally get something that is not in the next year-old iron again.
Synonymous, I believe that the manufacturer is now in very quick intervals this format "s.den man" bring. However, because the hardware is mostly just consists of DSP's, and AVC is a scalable format, it is very likely that if the quantities s.billigen recorders are sold, the next step will be that the higher profile supported. Then we would have exactly what we need: 1080p25 or after 50, as a 10bit signal and I-Frame-oriented. The dual bandwidth is quickly absorbed another HD and now costs nothing. A very important advantage of this signal for a commercial use is still the possibility of down-sampling (of 1080 at 720). We all can convince what qualities when downsampling of HD to SD to ... We will be repeated.
And another reason: The emergence of new CMOS sensors was not synonymous with HDV but with AVC together ... because this generation synonymous digitization of a signal substantially next to the front sets and so not only resolves the analog filtering, which always has limitations, but because synonymous other types of filtering now suddenly possible.
So Marco ... if you are clever you can start the camera well for commercial purposes.
And Fabkei ... Of course you have right when you say, there is always something better and give better. But in the moth crate, I would really no longer apply and possibly buy a HDV. If you can live with that NLEs the format is not yet perfect support and you are still slightly with the shortcomings, but hopefully after and will give in, life can ... then beating it to ... After all, what I could watch it all here s.einem pull cord and we are very Bals a solid and sustainable standard of ..... for once!
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Fabkei
I had forgotten to your issue ...
I know there is a great forum in the Sony camp and a natural, somewhat smaller Canon camp.
From my experience builds Sonyetwas no more on the features (touch screen for this and this), where I often wonder how useful they are ... and whether in the course of time the eternal synonymous fingerprints on the screen may suffer. But this is a matter of taste ... Canon has always been on good lens systems and so set (with a few exceptions) made good pictures. I think between these two broad directions, you need to be distinguished. As a television man, I would (personally) looking for the good Optics decide. But that is not really hot, the Sony lenses are bad .. Sony's only when I "ClearVid" proceed at once, then only one image point of 2.05 ym, then I would first like to see that the images are sharp even synonymous.
But, as I said ... Your decision is likely in the features.
Antwort von Marco:
"Then we would have exactly what we need: 1080p25 or after 50, as a 10bit signal and I-Frame-oriented." Sounds highly AVC-I. ;-)
If I am not mistaken, would be for AVC-I even 1080p50 possible synonymous when the moment is probably not yet specified.
In this sense, would be synonymous me info to my questions about AVC-I, I on
this Page
Marco
Antwort von WoWu:
Hi Marco
.... basically, you have right ... AVC-I would of course be an almost ideal size ... if it is then necessary.
We are however faced with the problem that our CPU architectures in the PC is not for 600 billion and operations are designed specifically not synonymous for fast memory access.
There is little difference between AVCHD and AVC-I. So I think, and many pointed out that DSP solutions will give those in the computer status to the work and take on even the oldest PC is becoming the "smart" Calculator (for AVC). Thus, any intermediate superfluous.
And I think so synonymous that the following generations synonymous I can be. Currently, there are many broadcasters, but synonymous with the system and the traditional houses Broadcastausrüstern lively debates, such as a market for the future and will show up on the hard-liners who still s.liebesten for "Brown Paper" television would see the need of Camera commercial from a technical point of view is no longer ... It now goes to optics, usability, etc. Even AVC-I see already s.Output the MXF data container before, so even s.der interface, there is nothing more to "commercialize".
So you see, even AVCHD is not so wrong, there's just not the hardware support for NLE's.
And, if you have a AVC for commercial use plan should be to ensure that the signal is really clean and not generated by such filters, such as "contrast s.Kanten" artificially puts the focus is ... but basically you will share with the good pictures can make ... and know the radio people synonymous ... now need to quickly type in the new editors what else, to justify that only their Spezis good images.
Previously, this was with the relatively high initial investment possible ... soon no more.
Antwort von fabkei:
General AVCHD to: - "No NLE Support - Yes, so I can live - with iMovie08 I study for my movie satisfied - I have unfortunately only Final Cut Pro 5 ..
- What are the little imperfections, which aims to s.was Marco said: "What exactly should I wait because? Better cameras are almost always of generation of generation"
- "1080p25 or after 50, as a 10bit signal and I-frame for a commercial use" - this is it for me do not come. At least not with this device.
In order to decide HG10 or SR7: From Feeling ago I would have preferred synonymous times a Canon and understand your arguments, but poorer features like no underwater housing and Lanc, inferior image quality and only 40 GB to speak against it. Try again tomorrow to 25p more to learn and make my decision after a personal impression of the store.
Misc. - So what should it not only for HDV type ...
http://usa.canon.com/app/html/See_The_Difference/hd_cmos.shtml
On Youtube, the AVCHD recordings are simply terrible ...
- This way, I think a good thing - you can even easily via e-mail notice ... I had time for my notebook.
http://www.jambaschutzbriefe.de/vsw/schutzbriefe/schutzbriefe.jsp
Antwort von WoWu:
... that is true what you say and I'm quite sure you will for you find the best solution .... specifically with regard to the accessories.
With the downloads, is still such a thing with the computer performance.
With You-tube, it is always what I always "preaching". No cascading of different reduction algorithms ... then something that is emerging. That is not s.AVC but also because on the way there already gone, everything has been reduced, what each codec has the right .. s.Ende and then looks just like this .... I think yes, if you work with video, it is synonymous better understand what you are doing ... that protects against nasty surprises.
So .. a lot of fun with the new camera ... and tell me what, if you have them.
Antwort von fabkei:
I have just viewed the SR8, HG10 is unfortunately still nirgens delivered:
The handling is really great, the menu is easy to use and the touch-screen point measurements of exposure or sharpness of an innovative Knaller - It makes real fun, but I can not tell how good they are at greater distances to work. Whether the focus on a better screen across optimal, because this was over and over Component and HDMI are not connected? No Comparison is ...
http://usa.canon.com/app/html/See_The_Difference/hd_cmos.shtml
In any case, she was in comparison to the JVC HD7 sharper and the Image Stabilization funktionieret synonymous (although today I have no coffee). In turn, the latter I liked the color better because the contrast was with the SR8 just a bit too strong.
Antwort von Marco:
"Point measurements for exposure or sharpness of an innovative Knaller" Depending on the situation in order to succeed even really good sharpness relocation. I was super synonymous when it heavy synonymous of the light conditions and is one with a very rapid speed must be satisfied.
Also good that you Funktionsrad front may prove different. I did this example on the wheel most exposure correction is over and touch-screen, I often use the focus point. To keep oneself with such a camera to direct control over focus and exposure.
Marco
Antwort von fabkei:
Can I actually talk to the SR7 / 8 directly an external disk for backup dranhängen? Wär ja a miracle ...
Example:
http://www.arlt.com/pc+komponenten/festplatten/external/bundles+gehaeuse+festplatte/usb+oxid+oxid+oxid/25+oxid+oxid/80+gb+freecom+toughdrive+pro+mobile+25979+usb+20+4200umin.html
Antwort von wolfgang:
But in the moth crate, I would really no longer apply and possibly buy a HDV. If you can live with that NLEs the format is not yet perfect support and you are still slightly with the shortcomings, but hopefully after and will give in, life can ... then beating it to ... So I would Motte box to an HD device does not say - even if the mpeg2 codec used definitely older. The current "shortcomings" are simply enormous - an average.
The question remains as to the period "a little" is to be exact. What exactly does that mean - we are talking of a few months, a year 3 or 5 years? Where is this hardware today, it's already been announced, or is it in an even earlier stage of development? When therefore it is a quantum leap in processing capacity of AVCHD to expect?
Not that I s.dem future potential of H.264 doubt - but we need solutions synonymous in the foreseeable future, if today people based on such recommendations to buy camcorders. Otherwise, buy today, and until the real target hardware solutions are available commercially, have long been the next camcorder ...
And in the meantime brauchts extremely fast Calculator and eventually cut through intermediates ...
Antwort von Marco:
"Can I actually talk to the SR7 / 8 directly an external disk for backup dranhängen?" You mean to the recording at the same time to the internal and the external hard drive to make? No, that does not. During the recording, the camera with an external device does not start.
Marco
Antwort von fabkei:
No, actually when the camera plate is full or if you have the feeling that after the recording to make a backup.
Antwort von Marco:
Since I lack the experience, but I think it is already possible.
Are there not specific backup hard disks, the push of a button on an internal chip itself the necessary processes? This will allow it to function as the SR models, if s.andere USB devices, like a normal external hard drive will be handled.
However - pragmatic thought: Even on the SR7 fit 8 hours of HD material in the highest recording quality. On the 12th even SR8 Is not it very unlikely that a given so suddenly and unexpectedly the desire for a backup überfällt than that you do not always have enough time to take the next PC or laptop to be seen next?
Marco
Antwort von fabkei:
If 4 weeks in the summer in Mexico without a laptop on the road - klaro. Should you try it, but in the instructions on p. 24 is only of what DVD and hard drive ...
Antwort von Marco:
Ask a look at Sonyan what they you for such a case, recommended.
Marco
Antwort von joecast:
@ Wolfgang
... Greetings once in beautiful Vienna ...
Of course, the "moth-box" slightly exaggerated but we can all not only to reduce the new algorithm. There is a whole round s.Neuerungen the influence in this generation:
1)
It begins with the CMOS, which in the new generations, even the A / D elements in the sensor already have, with the corresponding sequences, each pixel individually in color, contrast values, gain, noise, even in the error correction for the Linsenfehlfunktionen (Lens shading correction) to the serial line. Result is already a picture, as it previously was not even conceivable. (Is there not in the old cameras)
2)
Resolutionvom sensor ago: 1920x1080 (Is it not in the old cameras)
3) High Quantisierungsgrad to internal 12-14 bit for the AD-conversion and 34 bit internal processing, which among other things to a finer Resolutionder gamma curve. (If there is only very limited in the old cameras)
4) The object-oriented features partielle sharpness, exposure, color matching, etc. Whether you need it now or not, it's the introduction to object-oriented MPEG4 (Facial) with all the possibilities still lie behind it. (Is there not in the old cameras)
5) About the new codec you need and not to mention that there is a real development, it should become synonymous not really be doubted. (Is there not in the old cameras)
6) On the recording medium can now argue. It is clear that less effort for the benefit of the payload for the data has to be (Is it not in the old cameras)
7) support of xvYCC (Is it not in the old cameras)
And now to the question what is and what is not already:
The essence is the hardware support and because it is actually just the DSPs: one quite apart from that it's DSP since the 80s there, here are the relevant modules now been more than a year on the market and (see camcorder) is now synonymous blithely installed.
They are synonymous so the NLE manufacturers are available! First (a) sidesticks in support of MPEG4 exists since early 2007. (However still in limited Resolutionund certainly not competitive model)
Interfaces: Are all be defined and integrated
Monitors: Sonyhat the end of the year for the first standard OLEDs announced a development, with high probability, the future belongs.
Interesting in this context is also the fact that the production of the De-Interlace chips by more than 60% was withdrawn ... you may now for a coincidence, I think this is a trend.
Now we should only ever slowing down slightly NLEs time that synonymous to do their homework and I think so synonymous that a second and possibly a third-generation AVC camcorders still have a lot more to offer and recommend slightly synonymous still waiting . One thing is quite indisputable: This train has no reverse gear and anyone who still has to decide for HDV certainly very good personal reasons, with a future orientation may not have much to do.
Therefore I believe synonymous that Fabkei the right decision for him and has taken at least have the advantage of 1-7 can benefit. Whether it is the footage, perhaps in half a year if it possibly NLE support is cut again or not, is something we will. Because who says that while recording synonymous for the convenient processing needs. Many ranges so synonymous only once a slow rendering and they like to wait until it is hardware support, if they take no monster PC to buy.
You see, it has everything its advantages and disadvantages. Only I find it increasingly difficult for the benefits of the purchase a new equipment to detect HDV. But perhaps I overlooked something. ?
And a bigger calculator, for the transitional period, I would at best will not buy anymore, because contrary to what the processing needs of the already irrelevant. (5 seeds and 70 GOPs / sec). Quite aside from that just the PC architecture is not right ... because the parts can still be fast. It is therefore not only
Antwort von WoWu:
---- Login miserable ....
As always remember ...
Antwort von fabkei:
As I wonder whether a smooth but firm, like Apple, for their NLE's no sidesticks offer in the near future on the conversion of AVCHD native and will waive import permit?!
Furthermore, would indeed zugern Comparison of the times worked and AVCHD material originals see ... 'm Probably the first to offer it here:)
Antwort von Meggs:
---- Login miserable ....
As always remember ... I was always synonymous. There is so ne checkbox without lettering below the login. If you are making a check mark, you remain logged.
Antwort von Marco:
"Furthermore times would indeed zugern worked Comparison of the originals and AVCHD material seen." I've been a few times AVCHD material (without prior conversion) geschnitten. This again showed AVCHD rendered subjectively no discernible differences. Luminanzpegel remain synonymous on waveform monitor checked unchanged, as is the color by Vectorscop examined. Visual inspection and difference images show neither control structures, details, shapes, colors, differences.
So at least after the first generation may render the result of subjectively lossless remain if a correspondingly good AVCHD codec with appropriate settings for the output is used. This can render after several generations may be different of course, synonymous, or if more intensive measurements will be analyzed, but it quickly because the issue of relevance is. I was quite surprised how well AVCHD to AVCHD quality is rendered.
Marco
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Marco
.. I know because I'm so heretical to me and I started here in the forum so synonymous so abundant wind always a 'but I think they are still miserable Umcodierungen and algorithms of synonymous NLE manufacturers which they simply can not manage better for the fundamental, which is the future Such hardware solutions will dissolve into thin air.
But the reason for such poor solutions is simply that the good NLE Manufacturer and patented solutions is not easy to use, or for cost reasons do not want. Many here in the forum do not even picture it, which is ultimately a market, which is about nothing other than money goes. And many have simply overslept the zeitgeist, never because someone of the developers for MPEG interested and has companies such as Thomson or Philips or NDA of course now all the patents under the roof and have specialist and for the "tired" software market, not much remains.
Look at just Apple ... but this is probably a peculiar irony that the only times in all on Wavelet play and with their multi-format timeline to shine.
But why is the time just so exciting and I would hope here in the forum as many critical players to find such things then synonymous times under the microscope and not take the case before each knee Manufacturer celebrate. (and incidentally, editors synonymous)
Antwort von fabkei:
What's up with AVID - have found nothing which suggests that they would support AVCHD?
What do these companies actually with the patents? Who else than the major NLE developers should they buy?
Antwort von WoWu:
Hello Fabkei
... firms only acquire licenses to the patent-protected algorithms used to be ... But clearly, with each license, which a company buys, of course, the profit is low ... since many say, then I write maybe even a must-Now but unfortunately much of a protected algorithm differ and of course has every chance that he is not better but worse.
So it is really only to the business.
why is the question of what happens when the H264 codec is really the standard and runs on hardware. Then the licenses on the HW basis. Only then will the NLE really only for the user interface.
I mean, do not be such a bad solution.
Antwort von fabkei:
Standard: H264 codec, which could then have 2 years in the case? It is always Sonyhabe with Panasonics AVCHD developed, therefore, they pay nothing synonymous with Vegas for the patents, does not it?
I see already, I must buy the book - is it synonymous to the most recent events?
Antwort von fabkei:
TO HG10 under http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=101059
For example http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg10/ download these files:
"24p mode animation.mov tv"
"HG10 24p 10k.mov"
"HV20 24p AIC.mov"
Comments? I'm excited spontaneously times ...
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Fabkei
H.264 is the only "official" designation ... AVCHD for example, is a protected brand name of Panasonic and Sonydafür ... but the content is identical.
Antwort von fabkei:
@ WoWu - What do you think really of ProRes 442? The results above can I find at least really good ...
@ Marco, you are as appreciative SR8 in Comparison to this material now on) (to once again return to the topic:)
Antwort von Marco:
I have this HG10 material not yet seen, but there should be no material to compare, due to completely different conditions do not actually comparable.
If the material you want to compare the two cameras, you have both cameras with the same parameters as in identical lighting conditions and be operated exactly the same motifs show (and if it is real, moving "Live motifs act s.besten still in synchronous operation) . Everything else is a pure speculation.
With cameras in those categories do I rate a little different anyway. There is the question for me whether the handling of the application can live and whether you ultimately after all still a work vorweisbar quality is for its own needs and those of possible customers. Is this the case, it is onfür me, as if synonymous possibly a Manufacturer Model X from Y in the detail sharpness still a little bit better wegkommt.
The appreciation of a camera comes from very many different factors and a CameraLink ever cheaper, the more I am ready to compromise.
Do it yourself with your decision is not too difficult, so synonymous if an investment of course, always wants to be carefully considered.
I see my HG10 material but still ... ;-)
Marco
Antwort von fabkei:
@ Marco - The camera evaluation, I will remember and the first strike, when I combined both times in a shop for you.
Antwort von wolfgang:
This train has no reverse gear and anyone who still has to decide for HDV certainly very good personal reasons, with a future orientation may not have much to do.
And the industry is on its way ... we give them still a few months time and just write our old equipment, a longer from now ...
But if I see the problem, two years ago have all said that we could with HDV did not work.
So if it's just a few months would be, then we would already know of product announcements. I fear that things considerably longer. True, the time is not so long ago, where you still mpeg2 as the "final format" described. And TODAY we have a situation that HDV on a standard 2-core PC for $ 500 of the HDV rod performs similarly well, times like DV.
My fear is still that thing much longer than just a few months, and I suspect that we have more of 1-1 1 / 2 years to be talking. The fact that the solution for AVCHD cut back more in terms of hardware encoders and decoders could lie, for me is not implausible. Like earlier card manufacturer just for the DV-codec hardware decoders had. But still man sowas in more powerful PCs integrate.
Of course, the thing so fast moving that the case in 1 or 2 years may look very different and will. But what do users today who want to cut their films? Therefore, although it may be that the choice of HDV although with little future orientation has to do - but who is now a well-functioning production system is required, has halt with HDV is still the easier and better processing capabilities. And it already. Perhaps with the main disadvantage that the capture of HDV material of bands HDV lasts unchanged and shows error - keyword "audio hole" or occasionally frozen s.Clipende frames, from the next clip. But with records on plates and chips will be synonymous, the more and more - these devices are already announced.
When CMOS would love me if industry solutions for the rolling shutter effect would have - but perhaps because she already was. Anyone who has pictures of fast moving objects makes his experiences so blue wonder. Rotor blades around ...
From a sensor resolution of 1920x1080 we have nothing but nothing synonymous seen what the consumer sector ever to be usefully can. The devices can while and after - but I know of so far not a single (!) A test of such a device certifies that the perceived resolution would be better than 1440x1080. Neither a JVC HD7, yet when the first AVCHD devices with full-HD. The fact that you have to look at the tongue melt - not a single test, the full-HD camcorders currently certifies a better picture. At least so far is the so - which does not mean that it must remain so.
And in the cut system is in any case, one point clear: the subject matters of course, economic considerations. If a manufacturer of a cut system enormously expensive and / or buy many licenses must be more expensive that the average system halt considerably. And it definitely pays the customer with. From the Page you have to be synonymous aware that the call for an improvement in the NLE editing systems through the acquisition of licenses synonymous systems for the more expensive retail needs. And the whole industry is groaning under the investment in HD systems - no preference whether you are in the broadcast area looks, or the small consumer sees. So of the Page brauchts affordable cost systems based on tolerable solutions.
See, for example, the PC solutions. Current price is now bearable and use the 4 quad cores already quite good at rendering the material - because we drive by at about 90% core utilization. But in the real-time preview ists mild clear - our current editing programs synonymous to use such a system in the preview use only between 40% and 60% of nuclear power, and show at the same AVCHD very sc
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Hallo Wolfgang
.... Dacor!
You have the whole thing even in a good word taken, which I never really want to succeed.
It would take me but not really fair, as "Verteufler" of HDV, there are ... by no means synonymous and we will, of the reasons you probably have a while to work (have to) and our predictions are of course only "crystal ball" in terms of time. But I think we all hope that as soon as possible. I see this with the (card)-developments so similar. What I just synonymous with the discussion Fakei have learned here is that the new generation s.Camcordern synonymous feature of the side for the "low-budget" market obviously of great interest to the course and the new sensor technology contributes.
As for the turn for the quality Resolutionund means synonymous, I must first consider very calm. Only with the Intermediate we diverge slightly, but I have yet to MPEG2 times the Rhode and Schwarz test, with which such a theme perfectly to the body could move. Unfortunately, even on a D5Band what I somehow only have to play. Unfortunately, the format does not designate times on plays ... but I'm working on it. Only thus could be the loss of each generation can be observed.
Otherwise, I'm going to do with the topic Resolutionvöllig right ... But I think we are still an exciting time of the "upheaval" in front of us and will probably still have a few issues with the "shock" act.
Greetings to Vienna
Antwort von snatch909:
That is what I have in the past rausgefunden Comparison - Please add: Hi all, had previously "anonymous" mitgelesen and now I am logged in, so I finally synonymous my questions going to be.
I am currently exactly this question: HG10 or SR7? I have heavily on manual functions, as well has the Canon, at least in the number of options slightly ahead. Viewfinders, micro-Input and Hot Shoe have both, it is also important to me. The differences seem - to me in the important areas - not so great to be:
HG10 advantages: - Aperture is in contrast to the manual setting SR7
- A more favorable price
- Slightly better picture (at least as I read in out camcorder info)
SR7 advantages: - Bigger hard drive
- Touch Screen point measurements (how well does it work in practice?)
- Headphone output (lt camcorder, the HG10 info no)
- Better housing design (subjective)
The question is, how important is the Aperture manual? Say: The Effect of the depths (a) should I focus so synonymous with the manual focus a lot of opportunities, right?
Possibly. synonymous times ne sharpness shift can make it more likely only with the SR7 by the point-measurement?
Can anyone (if it is allowed in the forum) a dealer in the Rhine-Main area (Aschaffenburg / Frankfurt) recommend where I can test the device?
Many greetings,
Olli
Antwort von Marco:
"Touch Screen point measurements (how well does it work in practice?)" The question is difficult to answer. This must be really self-test. Depending motif of light and the condition can function perfectly. Under adverse conditions it may be coming to a pump, until the focus is found. And it then under such conditions, especially in HD, synonymous barely possible, manual scharfzustellen.
Critically are synonymous very small objects, which then vswenn still synonymous move.
Personally, I like the point-measurement quite.
Marco
Antwort von snatch909:
The question is difficult to answer. This must be really self-test. Your comments will help me anyway next. Among the film conditions: I will be next year for an extended period of time in Miami and will be there to document my time. Since I am always of good weather and good light conditions thus expect the mechanism should work well.
Do you have a SR7? Otherwise there's any experience that you've collected so, especially under the aspect of the manual settings?
Thank you and many greetings
Olli
Antwort von Marco:
Yes, I have the SR7. Too many manual intervention options are available at the SR7 not.
The camera has front left s.Lens so a small dial on which the menu can assign different functions.
As might be synonymous as the focus on it, but because the attitude on this wheel but something Fummel and the SR7 is also no focus-assist offers, this is not really bring much.
Even a Farbshifting can be set, ie a kind vollmanueller White balance, I believe, but nothing brings back because it really is impossible without a correct color measurement instruments to be identified.
Interesting it will be in conjunction with the dial in terms of exposure. Either it is about the manual exposure control or an exposure compensation in conjunction with the automatic exposure.
Personally, I have this wheel usually fix the exposure is assigned. Camera is in mode automatic exposure ', but I can on the wheel in the range + / - 4 levels of control. That's enough for most lighting situations completely.
So I can now as the focus on the point measurement s.Touch screen simultaneously and make the exposure on the Kontrollrad correct (there are so synonymous a 70 - and a 100% - Zebra).
But promise you of the interventions on the exposure does not turn too much. Because that has nothing to do with the fact that targeted Aperture or shutter speed could be controlled. Exposure influence here means only: Picture Picture brighter or darken. If you are aware of the Aperture wide open want to keep, you have to work with Graufilter.
For a camera this price class, I find this all very onWenn I really did shoot, where I focused intervention, I use completely different cameras. But the SR7 is - synonymous just because of the relatively large storage capacity - somehow a nice handy "worry-Camera" for everyday life. Maybe the HG10 as well as pleasant.
Marco
Antwort von Bernd52:
Great idea, I am still around the Sound - Would like to interview one or the other during my master's thesis for this film and looking for the best solution - you can only connect a micro, or someone knows another solution?
The sound level can not be manual adjust ...
Antwort von Marco:
For something with such cameras s.besten a separate recording device (including separate microphone) and use later when the sound cut cause.
Marco
Antwort von Jan:
Since the HG 10 in Germany has not yet been delivered, one can only compare the technical data, it is yes it is a stripped down HDV HV 20 with hard drive now stop at AVCHD basis.
According to my information, the Canon HG 10, draw up a headphone output. I'm curious times when I feel in the hand - which now really is.
The hard drive is already small with 40 GB to 60 GB. I think the AF and stabilizer, the Canon vornliegen a piece of AF with external and internal sensor for HV 20 (HG has 10 yes synonymous) is quite impressive. The poorer wide (43.6 to 40mm - SR 7) has, unfortunately, the Canon.
Yes every company has special features that stop Canon horizon markers and gridlines, 25p Mode and Cine-mode, the main screens, or time code (although Sonyhat Exposure mix with Aperture and Gain in 32 stages - really sure what was done in each moment is you can not say exactly), Sonyhat point for measurement, point-focus, super-slow motion (200 fields / 3 sec Resolutionmit VGA Sound), so the main Dial Wheel with choice of Focus, Exposure, AE Shift and WB Shift.
Canon has yet to improve the external battery option - who insists.
On memory card directly record HD HG 10 is the third (when the disk is defective or not be described - great heights zb or wild camera movements) can indeed synonymous unable SonySR, Panasonic HDC DX 1 (DVD AVCHD Camera with SD card for photos) synonymous not, as is JVC HD 7 in front, if synonymous only in second-best quality.
Yes, Wolfgang, with VAD, the new Full HD SD 5 in the picture even worse off than the old SD 1, SD 5 rescued, only the improved stabilizer, pre Rec and contrast the new program (Tonwertveränderung be to lighten dark spots, light posts will be darkened) .
Let's see, synonymous tolerated as the material to other HD devices (Playstation 3) or universally to NLE - AVCHD is unfortunately not always AVCHD - Not everyone knows the neighbors ....
VG
Jan
Antwort von Jan:
Hi,
yesterday, the Canon HG 10 finally shipped, I just wanted a few lines as a first impression write down here.
First, the A and off, without knowing the camera, you might here of a 1:1 copy of Sony speaking.
Finally there is a reasonable Zoomwippe when HV 20 was the focal length change for me is still relatively difficult to operate.
Juhu, the viewfinders is in contrast to HV 20 in the rear rausgeschoben, which Langnasige and large battery users will be pleased.
Unusually, in contrast to SonySR series, it can not in the camera are cut, not synonymous in the resulting playlist. Also strange - no chance 576i PAL recording as with the Sony.
On the film record card is not synonymous yes (only photos), there is Festplattenguru JVC HD 7 Number 1 - if synonymous in the second-best quality.
Image settings, only the 1080 / 50 i or the popular 1080 / 25 P mode - nothing more.
Headphone output is provided, the backlight fix is now in contrast to the AGM 20 (front LCD is difficult to press) is now directly accessible s.LCD - not bad!
Canon has just like the new SR models, a smaller HDMI cable is selected, the SR 1 had the familiar times, when 10 states HG cable HTC 100th
Picture was very good, at a good level of Sony - and little Schlieren image error.
It must, however, the PC very carefully choose my 2,8 Ghz has vehemently problems that indicate the material smooth. VLC Player would not be right to have the file extension MTS.
Lowlight a little brighter than SonySR 7, color neutral synonymous for me, for me Sony had a slight yellow tinge in it.
Stability and AF as in HV 20 on a very high level.
VG
Jan
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
A point-Focusierung on the monitor can not do?
Have I understood correctly?
Antwort von Blupp:
The Punktfokusierung on the monitor in my opinion, is not possible, it's Sony-specific, and perhaps their greatest pros in addition to the hard disk capacity.
Antwort von Jan:
Focus Point has only synonymous Sony - as far as I know (if not once again a company copied). The A & Off Canon but definitely of Sonyabgeschaut.
No. I meant the Backlight correction - which is now directly s.LCD quickly accessible.
The Menutasten are now built a little more stable than the 20th AGM
SW is not Mac compatible, but was already clear.
Sonyhat When you stop but unfortunately do not have 3 speeds for the focal and no manual shutter as the Canon (TV - Program) - each has more or less any other functions
s.Bord.
VG
Jan
Antwort von Beethoven69:
Is the 25P mode synonymous with you so strongly s.Ruckeln? For camcorder info ja mal was mentioned that the camera in 24P mode would be useless.
Antwort von Jan:
This "Geruckel" (Noise in the images) is intentional, just like the modified gamma curve. Powermac times was well described.
The "movie" mode, it's not interesting for each rotation. 25 P or PF is not Allheilslösung - just an idea the Fim a different handwriting to give.
VG
Jan
