Frage von Challenger70:
Hello dear forum!
Since I'm new and I understand it a little better starting point can, I'll give you first, some details are known about me:
I am 19 years old, was (until summer school, at the moment I do a "creative" free years and then in stock mach ne education in media design in Picture and Sound) and am interested in many years with different types of art. At first I was very intrigued and 3D for me was synonymous quite easily accessible. Meanwhile, I found the movie as my total passion. With the film I am working now intensively for 2 years.
I have the camcorder to my parents, Panasonic NV-GS24 lying around. At first gave me a credit to the synonymous, but for my first real amateur film but I wanted to grow a better, your own cam. With my mini-job, I'm about 600 ¬ available, which I now wanted to invest in the near future.
I inform myself have been a good 2 months on your camcorder and which to me fits. I have a pretty good idea about what he may want. Among the requirements, I think I need to say anything next who are at the amateur filmmakers who have a budget of 600 ¬ for their camcorders available, anyway about the same.
After intensive research, synonymous test here on slashcam / camcorder, I found these two candidates for me:
Canon HG21 and the Canon HV20.
Initially, said everything for the HV20, but since this is much more expensive (I could have it at most) are needed for the same price and I've read often synonymous, that tape will disappear slowly (;?) And the picture quality is about the same, was I do more on the page of the HG21. The lack of focus settings do about it but very painful.
Now I wanted to hear your opinion on the subject. I have really limited my search to these two candidates, but perhaps still a another camcorder for me in the eye? Has an experience with one of the two cams?
Thanks in advance!
mfG Challenger
Antwort von Challenger70:
Well, I correct: HF100, HG21 or SonyHDR-SR11 ... Are actually the last remaining candidates. Speaks vlt. which is contrary to the Sony? Is it true for example, asking when the shutter can not set manual?
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... HF100, HG21 or SonyHDR-SR11 ... the last remaining candidates ... Are you looking for more of a Second-hand? HF100 and SR11 have been replaced by successor (almost even by post-followers) and the HG21 is at least a discontinued model, which although no longer produced, but will probably get a couple of weeks again. If you are looking for a new camera and they do not need tomorrow, I would consider myself above all the featured models for 2010.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Need not be new, can be used synonymous ... When will the new models come out?
Noch ne thing: What exactly is the successor of the HF100?
And why is the HG21 an outdated model? But it's not so old ... You mean because she no longer sells long?
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... When will the new models come out? ... They were presented (last week, with the search function you can find the relevant news about it here in the forum). Delivery they will be dependent on type of Manufacturer and expected sMärz / April.
... What exactly is the successor of the HF100? ... HF200
... why the HG21 is a discontinued model? ... Canon has approved of the hard drive as storage media in these devices.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Okay, but on flash you can save the videos synonymous yes. Are any major drawbacks of a hard drive?
And hab grad mal checked: The HF200 can forget yes ... Then I'll take 10 times better, the 100s ... Smaller image sensor, lower max. Shutter time and man. Focus and Apperture control only over the menu ...
Antwort von srone:
Then I'll take 10 times better, the 100s ... Smaller Image Sensor ?
lg
SRON
Antwort von Challenger70:
If at least camcorder-test!
Antwort von srone:
If you're in your vorfeld recherche have read here in the forum a bit, you will have noticed that here a lot turns on the sensor size, because it means light sensitivity especially in the second line means a larger sensor synonymous less depth, more film look .
of test in which you quoted, I'm going from one of schreibfehler.
lg
SRON
Antwort von Challenger70:
Okay, that with the image sensor is so synonymous to me quite clear, but the other arguments are still in the room, so the HF200 for me really is not an option.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Well, then what else that I could possibly make the decision to buy (there are now only the HG21 and the HF100) in space:
As well as seeing the FARBEINSTELLMÖGLICHKEITEN in TWO camcorders, or if None knows it, from camcorders in this price range in GENERAL? Are there 3 RGB bars that I can reciprocate up and or there is only usable presets?
I've read a lot about the HF100 and HG20/21. In principle, 2 very similar cams. The HF100 has probably sold very well, but it has a smaller data rate. However, it seems that the auszuwirken not adversely affect their image quality: I've read many times as are its outstanding features but his Lowolight. Unfortunately, I have found so far refrained from Comparison Between the two camcorders ...
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... FARBEINSTELLMÖGLICHKEITEN in TWO camcorders ... You can download almost any of your camera in this class - and of HF100 and HG21, in any case - the complete instructions on the manufacturer's website. This enables front of a Purchase and see first hand what can the Camera and how it hires.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Thanks for the tip, will try the same time!
Noch ne question: are expected in the next big price changes of models to older models? And how long will the HG21/HF100 actually produced yet?
EDIT: Of course it was clear ... THE TWO models of exactly there is no manual (more) ...
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... And how long the HG21/HF100 is actually produced yet? ... Produces both are now no more, the HG21 for a few weeks, the HF100 has estimated that more than one year.
... From just the two models, there is no manual (;) more ... If both are present: http://www3.canon.de/pro/bda/vid/
Antwort von Challenger70:
Thank you very much!
Antwort von Challenger70:
Okay, I've yet to ne another question: How important is it for one such Cams Viewfinder? The HG21 has one, the HF100 does not. Nevertheless, the HF100 is considered with the best cam in the price range. Nevertheless gibts in camcorders-test was always on his cap, the absence of a viewfinder. So I ask you: How important is it a viewfinder? The best answer to people who have one or have none, and miss them so painful ... Reviews were also very nice!
Antwort von Rolf Hankel:
Okay, I've yet to ne another question: How important is it for one such Cams Viewfinder? The HG21 has one, the HF100 does not. Nevertheless, the HF100 is considered with the best cam in the price range. Nevertheless gibts in camcorders-test was always on his cap, the absence of a viewfinder. So I ask you: How important is it a viewfinder? The best answer to people who have one or have none, and miss them so painful ... Reviews were also very nice! Hello
On the subject viewfinder. When I had the legendary Panasonic GS 400, I thought synonymous without Viewfinder, impossible.
Now I have a HV 30 and an HF 100, the HV 30's got a viewfinder, and I NEVER use him, the shooting across the screen (I make nature films) is so great in all situations, the fact that I put no value at all.
The displays just the new Sony and Canon have 3.5 "and then synonymous better dissolving, so that I can really do without in my next cam on the viewfinder.
Incidentally, my 30 is for HV Verkaf
Gruss Rolf ...
Antwort von Jitter:
To your question about the importance of the viewfinder. I film with a HV 20, which has only a modest viewfinder. My next camcorder will be equipped in this respect better. A device without a viewfinder for me would never in question. Not only because you only a viewfinder in direct sunlight nor gives a clear view, but synonymous, because the viewfinder operation, a camcorder is much better with two hands to grip.
The HG 21 You're definitely nothing wrong. For less than 650 ¬ you get a top unit. Younger Canon cams do not provide better picture quality, synonymous Neueerscheinungen 2010 of the Canon will be - that show the chip features - the HG 21 does not topped in the year 2008 (,!).
Since this device has already fallen sharply in price (; goes deeper barely) and on the important features of ambitious filmmakers viewfinder, you should have a good chance synonymous. The part eventually sell without huge loss again. In a year or two itching to you for certain, and you'd like something new.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Okay, one can therefore dispense with the viewfinder, the other can no longer imagine life without ... Very useful ^ ^.
Nevertheless erstmal thanks for the good answers!
Antwort von Jitter:
You'll find this Theama always conflicting opinions. This forum can give you mostly only subjective experiences. Whether you'll need even as movies a viewfinder or not, you will find out only after you yourself have started with the shooting. It is clear that a superfluous Viewfinder None affected you in ways a non-existing, however, can not be upgraded, and validated a film unit, if you should later decide that a viewfinder but is of benefit. What is clear is synonymous to significantly improve an existing viewfinder resale value.
Antwort von meawk:
So - a viewfinder is always better than None !!!!!!!
Especially in sunny days you will know to appreciate a viewfinder.
Therefore: Buy No Filmcam without Viewfinder. . .
LG
Antwort von Challenger70:
Okay, thank people for these important posts so far!
Now comes mal ganz ne silly question: Since I did not have a camcorder with viewfinder, but I usually only ever heard that it was particularly important in broad daylight, I prop does not know exactly what makes a viewfinder? If the color is something? Or, it obscures the display?
Antwort von Higgi:
If you you pictures of various views anschaust camcorder, you'll be able to see the difference!
Without Viewfinder until you rely only on the screen!
Only there you will see what you want to shoot straight film /.
One has the camera viewfinder, you can either look at the subject on the display or, alternatively, stop by the viewfinder!
Is it see through like nem binoculars - camera's viewfinder to your eye and.
Unlike binoculars but you look at a small monitor - in almost all of the camcorder is now colored. Only when the professional league of black and white again (is) better suited to judge the sharpness.
Advantage in the viewfinder is why: When the sun is directly s.Auge viewfinder, and therefore can be seen as nochwas be seen on the screen while nothing more to ...
Antwort von Jan:
Hello,
I think a better time searching on your part would be of advantage.
The HF 100 has, like the HF 200 to Shutterbereich of 1/2-1/2000 sec, although hardly as important as described, because photography has to do in the fall with nothing to videography. Not without reason, many professionals are working! with 1 / 50 to 1 / 250 sec, because look at objects with a fast shutter cut off. The 1 / 2000 is sufficient and is used very rarely.
The manual focus turns 100 on exactly the RF in the HF 200, as controlled by the joystick, joined at the HF 200 is to focus more on the automatic face recognition.
Touch screen is then the new manual focus in the 2010s models such as eg the M 306, the successor of the HF 200 and HF Nachnachfolger the 100th This kind of Schnellscharfstellung can bring benefits synonymous with, seen object getoucht drauf = sharp.
The HF 200 is not quite as bad, good in low light a bit (a lot of test pictures on the net were made with different shutters), the HF 200 is working for a newer image processor, now more and more wide-angle optical zoom, the new HDMI CEC control is with s.Bord, XV Color, Pre Rec and snapshot mode ...
Lange will give the HF 200 but not synonymous, the M 306 is coming soon. HF 100 is by anyway, with the HG 20 man should be quick, with the HG 20 with Viewfinder (HG 21), it will be very difficult.
The LCD viewfinder vs. time anyway Fight is not entirely clarified unequivocally.
Right now the trend is clearly on the LCD (Amateur League to 1000 ¬), because the LCDs hold more sharply, more identifiable synonymous of the page (viewing angle), are always better to read in sunlight. The bad viewfinder in the consumer class - when the cameras have this (just the small resolution color viewfinder with 100-123 k) are focusing on the likely take up a lot worse (as it is now time, a 900k 3.5 "LCD zb of SonyCX series).
Previously LCDs have now shown in the light no more blurred, they were synonymous with their 115-230 k pixels. Given what has been done with the newer models.
The new LCDs are still dazzled with strong radiation is a fact that Samsung provides with their Amoled (do not need a backlight) different screens, it can therefore be seen as a disadvantage.
Also, some users might use the viewfinder as a stabilizer of the action, which is synonymous as an advantage (for me personally take no).
If a MiniDV model is planned, one should fast the HV 40 (when securing new model with a warranty), it will soon be synonymous not exist anymore. With used models you need the owner can rely on good, a good head drum will cost something, if obtained a repair.
VG
January
Antwort von Challenger70:
1. I have researched, but mainly on this page, camcorder-test.com. If the data therein are incorrect, I can not help it synonymous.
2. In the great and all for me to bring the two successors of the HF100 is no benefit. Especially in lowlight segment, which is especially important to me, looks better on the HF100 EACH Comparison as its direct successor, the HF200, dating! And s.opt to the minimum increment. Zoom and Wide Anglekann I waive any case, since it is a Wide Angle Converter eventually anyway no longer around it's coming! And price comes up against the HF100 with my claims anyway no camera. The HF200 is to my knowledge a little more expensive, and the successor of which, I suspect once strong, synonymous!
Antwort von Jan:
But beware, a few magazines have made the HF 100 test pictures with 1 / 25 shutter and the more or less admitted. Then there was the function of "Long Exposure" enabled in the automatic transmission.
The test pictures of Camcorderinfo.com I would, in my experience with both cameras so synonymous reflect:
HF 10 HF 20 There was a lowlight of ca 14 overall rankings came out to 11, not a world of difference. Something brighter the HF 10 (, 100 identical) model, but please not so bright as almost a SonyEX 1 or better than the Henkel Camera Canon XH A 1s .....
Videoaktiv saw between the two cameras meager 3 points (; of 100), although I would not take their synonymous Lowlightbilder as a benchmark.
And strong noise all have two cameras with lowlight, look at (this time, the Exmor R cameras, eg CX 505) Comparison of Sonyim directly to.
But the choice of the top s.eh been taken already, then buy yourself a used HF 100th
VG
January
Antwort von Challenger70:
It's not as if I was a fan of the HF100 "and" haters of the HF200 or whatever, but my searches on various Internet sites simply have shown that the HF100 shows for its price class is the best lowlight performance. I think I have pictures of a total test comparing 3 very reliable sites to each other and my camcorder next to the test results thus synonymous made my own Picture!
Antwort von Jitter:
I've already bought several camcorder and thereby made the experience that some differences that have been previously difficult recherechiert and considered important after the purchase was relatively inconsequential. What have you s.Unterschieden found between HF 100 and HF 200, and is marginal in the everyday use of film yourself probably not detectable. Purely academic!
An HF 200 belommst you with a full warranty and return policy with a reputable sender (computer universe) for 509 ¬. An RF degegen 100 only still needed for slightly less money, I guess. Ultimately, you yourself decide, however, would be the economically rational choice, the 200th RF
Antwort von Jan:
Similarly, it is jitter, the camera is not better, at worlds, only a piece with a slightly brighter picture. Although (for me the 60 lux pictures of Camcorderinfo.com weltweitbeliebte precisely a fair and database) does not give the impression that the HF and 100 days in the same moment in the HF 200 overnight at 1 / 50 sec, Aperture and open up DB.
If it is not clear whether the picture with 1 / 50 sec, Aperture has been made open and equal gain, then I do not trust the thing. Almost no test gives you these values to secure.
The test pictures eg in Videoaktiv agree 100%, because there makes even the XH A 1s substantially darker images at 20 lux, the RF is 100 there is almost as good as the SonyEX 1 (which may not exist at all). With 1 / 25 s filmed simply, 1 / 25 called for 1 / 50 sec twice as much light on the sensor, then quickly becomes clear why a picture is much brighter.
Since I already synonymous in my camp in the company's RF 100 (which I just sold like HF 200) and the HF have used 200, I then saw a difference, but only 5-10% in low light.
VG
January
Antwort von Challenger70:
Okay, but what benefits from the HF200 because it is against the HF100er to justify the "slightly weaker Lowlightverhalten"?
Now you bring me back into doubt, although I have a camcorder, still wanted to buy the Evening ^ ^.
EDIT: Okay, I think I need to apologize to the nice users participating in my thread: I have just the first sticky thread in the category of "camcorder generally read, is thoroughly explained in the sense that no test, even of magazines etc . can be truly objective.
But how to make his purchase decision, then? For something you have to leave it, or not?
Go to overview FOR All (since the purchase equip my new camcorder within the next few days and should be of is why I need as much help as possible), here are the list of camcorders that come into question for me. Of course I have made this list by the test results of different sites, but I think I'm well established with this list in my price range (max. 600 ¬):
- Canon HF100 (587 ¬)
- Canon HF200 (482 ¬)
- Canon HG21 (621 ¬)
I compared the last few months like a madman, and to think practically "just now" that I had found the HF100 with my camcorder. But the fact that it has now already 2 followers (of which the most recent times for various reasons, not the question for me) and comes in contrast to the direct successor (HF200) 100 ¬ more expensive to make my already created.
What bothers me s.der HF200, however, which is ALWAYS BACK reported poorer Lowlight behavior (much worse), mainly due to the smaller image sensor. But now I wonder how much I might still be on these tests ...
I ask one last time thanks to your advice.
Antwort von Jitter:
You do it to you, but damn hard! If you supposedly lowlightstärkere of the RF chip is 100 so important to take it but the HG 21st
Which has the same chip as the RF 100, also illustrated the viewfinder, a 24 MB hard drive, and the mode, so synonymous with panning artifacts are kept in check (HF 100: up to 17MB). And the 100th for only 30 ¬ more than HF Canon 11 of the RF (do not know if it still exists) has the same camera as part of the HG 21, with no viewfinder and hard drive.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Well, I make it hard for me because it will be my first camcorder purchase their own, I've saved up the 600 ¬ for a long time and just wants to make the right decision.
What then is the real difference between you just mentioned of the HF11 and the HG20, which also provides less space and no viewfinder available?
EDIT: Votes for at least the 12 lux test pictures on the HF100 camcorder-test?
EDIT 2: All right, the question differently: HG20 - HG21 ... 60 ¬ extra for 60 GB more integr. AND Viewfinder disk space? About the Viewfinder divorced so the spirits ...
Antwort von Jan:
Yes, the test would be 12 Lux Slashcam signed pictures of me:
Antwort von Challenger70:
I found your posting top-notch! Unfortunately, I have a small note or a little lacking on the HG20/21/HF11 Comparison ... Thanks anyway! Every contribution helps me to purchase a little bit.
Antwort von Jan:
The HF 11 is a 5 months later appeared with HF 100 as already mentioned 24 Mbit / sec and 32 MB internal memory. Plus the software supplied with Blu Ray is capable. Otherwise, an RF 100th Is just not available anymore as the 100th RF
HG 20 was delivered before a few weeks ago, now being phased out of Canon HG 21 is the same camera with larger hard drive and one viewfinder. The HG 21 has long expired, so they can still get more difficult.
HG 20 & 21 can be recommended already, just because they bassiert on HF 100, consume hard drive cameras, but 5-20% more power, heavier, and theoretically repair.
VG
January
Antwort von Challenger70:
And how it looks with the resale value? Finally, I have now read that the whole model, which I will buy myself () except the HF200 discontinued models. How about because with the price? Be the vlt Prices. even increase slightly in the coming months / years, because the devices are still on top (all have been run during the tests good results), but no longer available? Or decreases the resale value by that fact very dramatically?
