Frage von Challenger70:
Full of joy I have thrown myself on my new cam. But lo and behold: Is it really true that you, the exposure time and the aperture can NOT adjusted separately? That would be fatal to any amateur film, because then the automatic brightness constantly readjusts. I simply could not really imagine've read the manual and rumprobiert. Finally, I found then on the Test of camcorder-info.com:
"This is a useful tool if you're trying to control your depth of field. You can not, however, set the aperture and shutter independently"
Do I misunderstand what is wrong now, or I see it really so that A can issue automatic before? I sincerely hope I am wrong!
Thanks s.alle helper!
Antwort von deti:
I sincerely hope I am wrong! No, but if you now why not "right" can shoot, then you disqualifizierst yourself and who before the purchase without the manual as PDF downloads from the Manufacturer, which is simply a "gigantic" stupid.
Deti
Antwort von Challenger70:
Well, then I probably will not be alternative but to return the camcorder. I'd rather stick to my old SD Cam, because you can do so selectively, and all quite independent of each other! I would have dispensed with some quality synonymous, but these settings do I absolutely need. If the Auto da constantly engages my picture and make good, brings me nothing.
Antwort von deti:
I'd rather stick to my old SD Cam Oh dear - the testimony of expertise!
Deti
Antwort von Challenger70:
Rather than abandon stupid comments, you could just as synonymous constructive to say to that? Are there any HD Cams those settings anymore?
Antwort von deti:
Are there any HD Cams those settings anymore? Not in this price range. My comments are not stupid, but they should lead you in mind, your views are as wrongheaded. If you ever are realistic, then one hand, you should know what to expect of a consumer camera and superior to the other, how many times you have full control over aperture and shutter speed is really required.
Deti
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... Is it on HD cams such settings anymore? ... Manual settings, worthy of the name are synonymous in the consumer sector has unfortunately become rare:
http://forum.slashcam.de/re-canon-xh-a1-oder-panasonic-hdc-tm350-vp391804.html?highlight = # 391,804
How it looks like the 2010s with models, I can not say, but its devices Sonyhat synonymous in this respect at least, improved.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Okay, I was feeling really synonymous longer that the automatic control of image brightness continuously make good as soon as I dissemble the shutter (in the "Shutter Priority" mode) or Aperture (in the "Shutterautomatik" mode). I have just herrausgefunden that he does not compensate the cinema mode. Well, but as the Cam but I'll return and look for a cam, in which one can set separate. Finally, I will once synonymous with a liquid Picture have little light, without the automatic Aperture opens again!
Antwort von Jitter:
If I understand correctly, you want to turn off the automatic exposure control and prevent that adjusts the aperture. Once you activate the manual control Apperture is frozen the existing value, or manual can be corrected. That's how it works, you can easily check by you at a fixed aperture of the camcorder in different light and dark areas move. You'll see that the optics will remain unimpressed of brightness variations and maintains the foxierte aperture. The only thing with this camcorder, you probably can not, is time-and set aperture value unbhägig each other. If Deien EC 21 as the canyons, with whom I have worked so far filmed, the following happens: When manual fixed aperture, changing the exposure time is not synonymous. It is frozen all all ". If you fixierst contrast, the exposure time, to regulate the aperture.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Aha, thank you very much! Get it right once and then report to try again! That would still be an acceptable state ...
EDIT: So, which regulates the brightness in the two automatic modes to auto! So useless. So the only mode of the movies, unfortunately, not by Aperture and Shutter are adjustable. There is only one light beam of -11 to +11, not now know whether the aperture value is supposed to represent. Good, then again, I'll examine the other Canons, otherwise I grasp just too ner Sonyoder Panasonic, which are indeed supposed to provide more control. Perhaps I might stay synonymous with my Panasonic NV-GS24 ...
Antwort von Rolf Hankel:
"This is a useful tool if you're trying to control your depth of field. You can not, however, set the aperture and shutter independently"
Thanks s.alle helper! Well, and why this is so bad. In many cams can be adjusted even less.
Furthermore, you can if you films such as the TV mode, adjust the exposure, while just over the bar in the + or - but that's what already (so it's certainly on my HF 100)
So keep the Cam. And then return to SD, so I do not know ...
Gruss Rolf ...
Antwort von Challenger70:
Yes in the HG21, it is the same as your HF100! Well already, only the brightness value I think has little to do with the Aperture. But true, if any, is the TV s.geeignetesten mode, because in the movies mode you can adjust brightness value than anything!
But still found the experience very well know, now that today's cams all have much less control. Or is it just the fact that I had before now ne ne Panasonic and Canon. For the amateur films, it is my opinion, but only partially useful.
Antwort von Rolf Hankel:
that I had before now ne ne Panasonic and Canon. For the amateur films, it is my opinion, but only partially useful. Previously I had 2 of the legendary NV GS 400, now have the HF 100 and HR 30, the one I want to sell it.
've Never regretted the change, when I look at my movies in EDIUS cut and printed as full HD player on the WD, which is already a stunner
Gruss Rolf ...
Antwort von Jitter:
Second attempt:
So then fix the Aperture (I suspect you have HG makes 21 so as 20-40 HV and HF 100): On the back of Kamara You will find a small joystick (via the function key). This is what you press, then pull the lever down until BEL. appear now press the lever, and the display appears above a bar. The Aperture is now fixed. With the joystick, you activate the manual Tonassteurung synonymous.
You've probably been on the function (menu), the time-and auto exposure button called. This is something completely different.
A well-meaning advice: Learn the camcorder first time at rest to know, read the manual of the first to the last page. Only then will ask in the forum after.
Your questions can be seen that you have no film experience. Let's assure you, the HG 21 offers more options than you'll use in the foreseeable future.
Antwort von Challenger70:
Yes you're right already, but how do I fix the Aperture I already know. And of course I figured out after just 20 seconds synonymous, that there are 2 basic menus. In addition, I have some film experience, but not with newer (HD) cameras. Nevertheless, I think it's a pity that the brightness value is not presented as an aperture. But then I just get along again. Maybe I still keep it, let's see. 14 days time to think I have.
EDIT: I now have even the Council of camcorder-info and follow tried the following: I enabled the TV mode and set the brightness value. Then I had to press lightly on the photo button to get shown the current aperture value. Worked! So I can set the shutter mode, and change the brightness! BUT: Now my question: For whom no preference, I've set brightness value (whether -11 or 0): The aperture value was always 1.8 (it probably has stopped automatically, as it is quite dark grad)! Could this mean that the brightness value (in the "Bel.)" Just a digital effect is? I have a feeling that the aperture does not change the fact.
Antwort von nicecam:
... (I think you make the HG 21 as 20-40 HV and HF 100) ... @ Challenger70:
Give the HG21 nor a break. If
jitter with his guess is right then you could be in addition to the second paragraph of your last post or the following links (of interest are probably a lot more, but I could raussuchen on the fly):
http://www.feuerwerk-forum.de/showthread.php?t=18941 http://forum.slashcam.de/viewtopic.php?p=213742 http://forum.slashcam.de/hv20-unklarheiten-kameralook-vs-qualitat-vt54490.htmlhttp://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Tips/ Canon HV20 Image Parameters professionally-kontrollieren.html
Antwort von painter:
Hello,
No, no digital Effect, but the camera when pressing the Photo button displays only the values of aperture and shutter. But when the camera due to the darkness which you mention, the more Gainwert increases, the value is not displayed! Unfortunately, the Canon is on so you experience only indirectly (there are still contributing here somewhere) how much gain at the moment car (! Switched on) was.
Greeting Painter
Antwort von painter:
Oh, Nicecam was faster now as I did, but that is what I meant!
Painter
Antwort von Challenger70:
@ Painter: Why can I set this brightness value synonymous yet, if I had activated the Shutterautomatik mode (not the "good" TV mode) and at the same time as a fixed set of Aperture 1.8? I then Aperture 1.8 and can still illuminate the Picture to +11! That can only be done digitally, because the next Aperture can not do that to ...
@ nicecam: Thanks for the links, is indeed true madness to me how you and the HG21 puts in stuff! When will I have then accomplished it once to watch video on my monitor (via USB so lost in transmission quality, right?), I decide the "fate" of the HG21 xD.
EDIT: @ painter: Hab grad den 3 Link seen through, there is that the brightness value Aperture AND GAIN (!) With adjustable ... Apart from that, it's pretty complicated to make some settings exactly (see link 1 and 2), and I find it incomprehensible that the Canon developers have implemented not just with this (or it's hidden to be found) would be the matter with the GAIN very bad. This indeed means quality loss ...
Antwort von B.DeKid:
For the amateur films, it is my opinion, but only partially useful. What if you please, then?!
What do you want to stop just costs MONEY!
MfG
B. DeKid
Antwort von Challenger70:
And I paid 620 ¬ to get any controls for aperture, while I'm in TV mode! For that I also paid money? Wow, I just give it back! And ESPECIALLY for the amateur movie you need those settings, if it were to documentaries or the like I would see it, yes, but not so!
Antwort von RickyMartini:
How's your definition of amateur and documentary, if I may ask?
Amateurs erstmal is anyone who can not work professionally or at least semi-professionally. Synonymous to a cell phone enough to make using Point'n shoot a video.
For a documentary there are already at least semi-professional skills important so that the film is not for the unplanned bobble orgy with lousy assembly! ^ ^
Manual controls are sure to offer much more than for simple amateurish Videografieren!
If you have such high expectations s.The technology, you'll have to fork out a few thousand euros more for a (semi-) professional camcorder!
Antwort von Challenger70:
So my requirements to see something like this as less important in my first, 2007 purchased, SD Camera for 250 ¬: Many controls, rest. That is, for me that the picture quality is not synonymous How bad is important, if not synonymous with neglect. And that's just fine! And in principle can be adjusted with the above trick shutter AND brightness, just bothers me that is adjusted gain synonymous with what one sees synonymous! Since quality is lost again. As I get Sonyand Panasonic for the same money more options and lower quality, as I define amateur films earlier. So I'm currently thinking big grad, returned the camera and switch to another company (given the fact seem to work all the canyons so).
Again the issue up next: HD material with USB is not transmitted as well, right? Because in HDMI - mini HDMI cables so lacking as well.
Antwort von Jitter:
Via USB you grant footage of the hard drive of the HG 21 on the PC, via HDMI you close the camcorder s.den on Television. Via HDMI you can not transfer data to your PC. Both connections are therefore completely different functions.
The selected TV mode (where the exposure time) can still complement the way, the exposure (ie, lock the aperture).
That coupled with the exposure control gain - and are Apperture control is in most camcorders nowadays and in practice, not a disadvantage.
Antwort von tonymontanax:
Why that would be worse?
You grant so slowly, not less ... -.-
Antwort von Challenger70:
Okay, since what was once thought would be with "quality difference". Sorry. Again, just something else, etc. because of the lack of controls:
Because I really want to come too close to none, I find the quality top-notch and the rest synonymous makes a straightforward impression. Who owns the HG21 or a similar model and a couple of settings without the benefit of better picture quality can, which is the abler. I find it hard to digest at the moment that I just SUCH A missing setting.
Antwort von nicecam:
Many versions below relate to Canon HV-models, preferably HV-20: however, it is indeed of the opinion that for HF-and HG-like models apply.
Look here,
Challenger70, In
this
1. Shutter speed: 1 / 50
2. Aperture: medium (for the AGM-20 let's say f4.0 and ruesssel take this as a reference in this 3. Gain:-3db
These settings apply in good light.
Next we learned in the first thread that you prefer the Aperture in lowlight opens completely, as (too many to admit) Gain.
What we want to say this in reference to the HG21? It may well be true that one at Canon HV / HF / HG models Aperture and shutter speed can not be regulated independently, but in contrast to your statement in this http://www.feuerwerk-forum.de/showthread.php?t=18941. In this link you provided me Of so is expressly stated in the 2nd post on the "double-click trick" Item 5:
[list] Quote: "This is repeated until an Aperture> 2.0. Because we now come to the right-looking Aperture 1.8 with 1 / 50 shutter speed and 0 db gain." list [/ u: 0dae5b1761] This is exactly what we want - synonymous with Lowlight! If the picture is too dark then you need appropriate course by "joystick right" add gain. This fundamental approach is different with "semi-professional - professional cameras or not. Only with the difference that one has complete freedom in the latter, so that what you want eventually.
In good light do about it but Canon HF / HG / HV models excellent shots. Probably because the automatic control of these models is quite good.
Again
ruessel as reference:
http://forum.slashcam.de/viewtopic.php?p=325592 # 325,592 or here:
http://www.fxsupport.de/blog/06_08.htmlIm letzten Link stellt er unter anderem fest, dass sich die HV-20 im Comparison zur SONY PMW EX1 ganz gut schlägt - dort ziemlich weit nach unten scrollen. Ich las synonymous schon mal of ihm (Link finde ich im Moment nicht) dass die HV-20 manchmal besser Bilder liefere als die XH-A1. Außerdem las ich mal hier im Forum - of wem synonymous immer - dass das Material der HV-20 manchmal (es hängt synonymous wohl of Kameramann/frau ab) nicht of einer 30.000 Euro-Camera zu unterscheiden sei.
Nun will hier ja niemand dich auf die Canon HG21 festnageln. Sony, Panasonic, JVC - muss man synonymous noch andere nennen? - produzieren absolut gleich
valued camcorder.
What causes head shaking here, is the fact that you are apparently ready for more manual controls in case of doubt, losing more quality to want. Basically your basic attitude is criticized for your decision making.
You probably claim to want to be good to s.der Camera and therefore sets for maximum usability. But you'll have to be DAMN good, but if you want to produce good images, while the - the camcorder possible - Image quality hintenanstellst.
So I do not consider myself good for PRETTY!
Look, I'm here synonymous have an old Video8 Camera of "annodunnemals. The do it, not more, but then everything went still synonymous mechanical - zoom, focus> everything, nothing electronical regulated. The gap is just now especially between consumer-and apart Prosumermodellen more and more.
Just think once s.den View
Antwort von Challenger70:
@ Nicecam: Thank you for your efforts! Never in a forum I had such a useful contribution. I will read me in peace, if I do not have something with the gain completely understood (what would great!). I rise again until I get it finish the story. And 14 days time, I have anyway.
PS: USB data transmission also works great, thanks for the answer (if somewhat synonymous with arrogance bear)!
Antwort von domain:
I find it hard to digest at the moment that I just SUCH A missing setting.
I never liked this digestion is difficult, not even in professional photographic cameras and not synonymous with the FX1. Because with an automatic light metering through the lens I think it must be for ever: either aperture priority or shutter priority associated with either AE-Lock.
Not even subsequent ev + - exposure compensation are important. In that case, keep on holding the camera in a bildwichtigen part that makes AE-Lock and ready.
Just as consumer camcorders can act if you can turn the gain synonymous additionally (and manual switch on in stages, such as synonymous with the JVC HD40).
Consumer Cameras with automatic exposure controls of their car swiveled and variably gray filters work incredibly intelligent and simulated exactly what would you do professionals synonymous in the situation, that is not extremely short exposure times and not allow too small apertures.
So what do you want?
You can set the Aperture and trust that are optimized neutral density filter and exposure time.
You can set the exposure time and trust that the aperture is not too small, and at the same time maximum use of the variable neutral filter.
You can gain off and AE lock.
There really is missing something? ;-)
Antwort von Challenger70:
@ Nicecam: Oh my God is brilliant! Although it is not so super easy as I imagined it, but it really works! Perfect, now I will occupy myself once with the action and then we'll see whether or not the thing I still can not connect to the heart! Thank you!
