Frage von atheobe:
Hello,
lack of comparability, I would have gladly of times you know how the quality of a good miniDV camera (about SonySX7)
with a HD quality (such as Canon HV30) behaves.
At what point would be because the HD quality felt and how much ...?
Thanks for your answers in advance ...
Antwort von Daigoro:
Hello,
lack of comparability, I would have gladly of times you know how the quality of a good miniDV camera (about SonySX7)
with a HD quality (such as Canon HV30) behaves.
At what point would be because the HD quality felt and how much ...?
Thanks for your answers in advance ... I do not know SX7 and FX7 is not but miniDV HDV.
If you have the standard definition VX2000 thinkest - guckst you own:
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Test pictures/Sony/Sony-DCR-VX-2000-E.html
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Test pictures / Canon / Canon HV-30.html
"HD" is above all time "high resolution", which tells about the picture quality is not much. And ne used VX2000/2100 can cost more than ne new HV30, making the comparison a bit unfair.
Antwort von atheobe:
For example, I recently a used Canon MVX3i bought as easily machinable MiniDV is yes.
For comparison I've SonyHD Camera (800.-Euro class) loaned to HD and then recorded on SD runterkonvertiert to edit s.Computer.
And these recordings are all sharper, richer detail than the Canon, which are the tests that should be quite good.
Hence my question: In what (price) class I have with SD embarking similar quality as HD cameras, if that is possible ... because I miss the comparisons stop ....
Antwort von Daigoro:
And these recordings are all sharper, richer detail than the Canon, which are the tests that should be quite good. Not 'good will', but 5 years ago (or more) times in the price range was good.
(and yes, there is often times at Ebay and co. with the former driven prices Schindluder - ne camera, before the 5 or 10 years, times several thousand euros has is not with today's camera in its price class comparable - the development is not stopped, but sometimes comical excesses in facilities - the MVX3, for example, still in analog and DV, which is now virtually nowhere in the consumer area and found quite handy if you have old Analogaufnehmen which you want Digitizer)
In SD Comsumer area because there's little that would be worth buying a new and little garkeine development.
If you have 'good' pictures and not want to do HD resolution, as linked above, which VX2000/2100. What is new is the far too expensive (~ 2500 - there's already synonymous - or better still ne-FX7) if they still held, used, depending on their condition and Zubehoer 800-1500.
Antwort von joerg-emil:
Sorry, now I've typed the whole time and missed the interim answers fit ... because the whole is no longer I leave it ... but times drin ...
Good DV Camera Sonysynonymous, in addition to the Canon XM2, have the times down in Comparison to computed seen and felt HD images are not as bad ... (which HD-Cam that was, I did not)
Hi atheobe,
HD makes only noticeable where the full Resolutionauch can be displayed, say on players and HD-enabled devices. And since the difference is very impressive. But before you decide on a format, do you sometime idea where your movies will finally end.
If you want your films s.viele other people pass on, then the good old DVD is still the best option. Since you're on the Page and can safely assume that everyone you can see movies synonymous.
If you want your movies on the Internet, you're best served with DV.
If the films are actually sent, ask at the station, which for a format is necessary. The local forest and meadow sender accept DV, because they're not yet in HD send (them).
HD makes the private sector for my words only make sense if you own the appropriate equipment and have more or less you yourself turn.
Do you work professionally for clients or rotate feature that may actually sent or times gebeamt be kommst du s.HD course not drumrum.
I think the time is in the amateur field is still a good possibly used DV Camera use. Until HD in most households for some time now, it has a few more years if we are synonymous resourceful marketing strategists always successful einbläuen, the DV is completely outdated.
The higher Resolutionvon HD makes it only noticeable when viewing distance of 80 cm on a standard TV, well below 2.40 m is located. From 25 cm distance, our eyes max. Perceive 336 dpi (print quality). This corresponds to a distance of 2.40 m as the PAL-Resolutionvon approx 35dpi.
Perhaps I am somewhat synonymous purist, as my television was broken, I broke my first an LCD Television from the mid-price segment highlights. After three days watching, the thing I brought back again and frustrated me a mocking cheap "tube" bought, the true relaxation ...
Greeting
Jörg-Emil
Antwort von Daigoro:
HD makes only noticeable where the full Resolutionauch can be displayed, say on players and HD-enabled devices. Not necessarily.
If obtained from a larger Picture calculates a smaller, more output can be information for a pixel Endpixel deliver. (but it is synonymous to the software - some software throws synonymous only 3 of 4 pixels away ...)
As in the consumer area, the picture is not very good anyway and razor-sharp is not SD or HD, an HD Picture runterkonvertiertes certainly look better than a native recorded in SD Picture.
The image noise at the pixel level, for example, can simply be weggerechnet (or in pan-ne farbe purely expected) and edge, etc. better 'is defined', because they are higher dissolved (so ne kind of anti-Alias | Wavefront Mayaing).
The stupid in our 16:9 HD are the black bars above and below, if you simply convert to SD 4:3 - that goes back a portion of the image lost.
Antwort von joerg-emil:
@ Tape suicide
ok, with the calculated Resolutionklingt down the obvious, I have no experience with gathered.
But when I look at it this workflow, which is already a mad effort, only in HD filming on DV down and then expect to cut ... because after a short period of time determines the temptation is too great, its HD camcorder on DV -- Studio to make ...
Antwort von PowerMac:
EACH SD Camera stinks down against SD calculated images of a HD camera from. I like any more pictures of a contracting SD Camera offer. Even if SD primary is required, which implies the duty to shoot on HD.
Antwort von Daigoro:
EACH SD Camera stinks down against SD calculated images of a HD camera from. Not the 800 euros HD cucumber, of which we speak here in comparison to better SD cameras.
Where no picture information, because there is only black & Noise are synonymous is not much herrechnen.
Is it synonymous easily test by looking at the images of video downloading and active with Gimp (or Photoshop) rumbastelt.
Antwort von Axel:
But when I look at it this workflow, which is already a mad effort, only in HD filming on DV down and then expect to cut ... because after a short period of time determines the temptation is too great, its HD camcorder on DV -- Studio to make ... In HDV cut
s.Schluss to SD (DV or better Mpeg2) runter reckon. It is clearly advancing one that HDV actually better for SD is made. The picture is much clearer than the beginning of recorded s.in SD, then that no longer exists temptation. Especially since the workflow is not complicated: With modern NLEs on modern computers, it is totally trial sequence in which one does what - from the effort, not by the outcome!
Antwort von PowerMac:
EACH SD Camera stinks down against SD calculated images of a HD camera from.
Not the 800 euros HD cucumber, of which we speak here in comparison to better SD cameras.
Where no picture information, because there is only black & Noise are synonymous is not much herrechnen. A Picture of this HV20 is certainly synonymous with good light of better than a PD170.
Antwort von Daigoro:
A Picture of this HV20 is certainly synonymous with good light of better than a PD170. Ich hab grad a few 'quick and dirty' down conversions made and the "daylight" pictures do not give much.
What is surprising of course for 800 euros ne camera, when you consider that the PD170 used more than twice the cost may be.
But from "artificial" and without further downwards post's still zugusten the higher-SD Camera.
Antwort von joerg-emil:
@ Axel
... if you can cut in HD, is that clear, but the questioner writes that he was only in DV can cut .... and then he would have in fact previously only expected everything down ...
What you can guess it depends of course from his budged. Did he just about the 1000 Euros available, I think it makes no sense to him to an HD Camera to guess. Den after that makes sense only so far written, when he is cut square and upgrade to HD, a software concern, which (like tape fetishist noticed) when Runter Computing is not just 3 of 4 pixels disposed.
Antwort von Daigoro:
which (such as tape fetishist noticed) when Runter Computing is not just 3 of 4 pixels disposed. That makes for current programs actually only the preview feature to save time - maybe even any schrottigen Programs of 10 years ago, when processors do not have a glass of water got warm. :)
As the real-time Downsize to the cameras so synonymous have to work, because I can not say experience.
When the Camera ne now hold, you can still safely in the HV30 (or the Phantom HC5 for $ 500 which I've never seen!) To invest, simply because for the money's no superduper DV cameras are used and ex "prosumer" Devices only for very specific applications of interest (who has already bock NEN 2 kilos Henkelmann through the region to balance:)
Antwort von Axel:
As the real-time Downsize to the cameras so synonymous have to work, because I can not say experience. At best, good computer, then yes because it
is DV. The only advantage is that any better 16:9. Possibly because there are a number of smaller synonymous with DV Cams 16:9 capable chips (800,000 pixels) there. At worst bad DV, especially in the canyons always like to read from the upper edge of the screen, which flickers. What the heck. There are HDV cams, no DV cams.
Antwort von joerg-emil:
... hab grad mal compatriots ... the HV30 or HC5 have as far as I could not find out the mic input would be for me .... NEN drawback, of course depends on what you do with it want ...
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Atheobe
The only advantage of HD recording to SD down conversion is only that you in the border area of the SD to the 5 MHz around in HD Picture a linear course and have the better advantage of the lens MTF.
The whole Herunterrechnerei brings you not one more picture detail compared to a good SD recording.
Advantage of SD recording is often that each individual pixel of the image sensor is larger than that of HD, which is the known consequences. Because it does not come out on same, whether I 4 tiny pixels in post production on an inter-polish, or whether the original pixel image sensor in the same 4-fold surface has.
Prerequisite for a good SD Studio is always a good (and most modern Lens. As has occurred in the meantime really done much.
Comparing images unterschiiedlicher format with each other, and makes it through the conscious choice of an appropriate Objektivgüte SD (possibly an HD Lens) for a good picture, then look down converted HD recordings to SD significantly worse than SD recordings with an equivalent lens.
The tale, of the image enhancement in the causative Downconvertment is very widespread, but so far not correct. The causes are not to be looking for.
So if you need to make SD a good camera head and to have a chosen lens sets, you're all better than in the male Downconvertment.
Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:
Hi,
and consider whether the material you are not in 4 years or so but still need HDV. Then you're with a Downkonvert but now better served.
BG
Andreas
Antwort von WoWu:
That may well agree, but was not the question ...
Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:
Hi,
oh come on sometimes there is a :-)
BG,
Andreas
Antwort von WoWu:
Hi,
I can understand, I personally would give me so synonymous not bother, SD equipment, or even choose to purchase now, but it is just simply untrue and poignant when the story of the glorious sweeping Downconvertments so widespread, quite aside that in the event of serious election has good software to find ... otherwise the shot is pretty synonymous backfires.
Greetings to Kiel
Antwort von Manuell:
Hi,
So then when I think s.die Panasonic HVX201, but then it would make more sense if the end product is a DVD, with DVCPRO50 incorporated, rather than in HD, right?
In particular, the processing then yes synonymous much easier to handle for the computer.
Then you only have to consider whether you are not yet in a year of the material like a BluRay would :-).
mfg
Manuel
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Manuel
waited until the second approach with the Reduktionsalgritmuns something to do.
The transition of HD to SD or SD originally come primarily other conditions apply.
And to load is much less in a calculator it is not synonymous, we compared DVCPro50 and HDV. Given the differences stand out almost.
The Grudsatzentscheidung is, as Andrew already mentioned, whether the material again later in HD will need.
Antwort von Daigoro:
Mr. Wunderlich,
we write here again about popel consumer cameras in the <$ 1000 price range.
As their fans Betrachtungen nuanced than my summary, but neither the lens nor the number of pixels, Pixelgroesse and Chipgroesse are any parameters that you could choose here.
Antwort von Meggs:
A Picture of this HV20 is certainly synonymous with good light of better than a PD170. These are unrealistic assumptions. For a good video, one needs a camera, the
well in hand,
well and intuitively can
many well-to-reach manual intervention opportunities.
Everything is in place and PD170 at the HV20 does not. I would for a job in SD be delivered, a PD170 clearly prefer an HV20.
Antwort von PowerMac:
I can not. Nothing I hate more than a PD170. The HV20 can I get better. Although small, but synonymous Picture of much better.
Antwort von WoWu:
Mr. tape fetishist,
Thanks for the useful hint. The wär'mir not noticed, but nothing changes s.dem fact that synonymous in the consumer area, the pixel sizes of SD chips compared to those of an identical HD chips in chip masses are larger and that the requirements s.die lens performance is directly related to this.
Antwort von Daigoro:
Thanks for the useful hint. The wär'mir not noticed, but nothing changes s.dem fact that synonymous in the consumer area, the pixel sizes of SD chips compared to those of an identical HD chips in chip masses are larger Are they?
http://217.7.21.86/pdf_printing_neu/datenblatt_ph.asp?model=NV-GS330EG-S
http://217.7.21.86/pdf_printing_neu/datenblatt_ph.asp?model=HDC-SD9EG-S
Vorrechnen please.
Antwort von WoWu:
Cryptic contribution ..?
Vorrechnen please. Buy calculator.
Antwort von Daigoro:
Buy calculator. Well, there is the problem.
Both: 3x1 / 6 "CCD
HD: 3 x 560,000 [total]; 3x 520,000 [effectively]
SD: 3 x 800,000 [total]; 3 x 540,000 [effective; 16:9]
The calculator says that for the same area of the chips (such as the right is indicated) and 560,000 to 800,000 "total" pixels (the 800,000 has surprisingly SD Camera - and not make the space when not in use, so that the "effective" pixels can extend) the SD pixels can not be bigger.
There are no variables in it, of course, from the data sheet is not necessarily apparent - for example if the 1 / 6 "not on the Chipgroesse, but the Abbildungsflaeche relate, the Pixelgroesse closer beienander than when the chips really 1 / 6" ( 2.5 x1, 8mm) are large and on one 560K and the other 800k pixels available.
Antwort von WoWu:
Now I could from the catalogs as many cameras out looking, all use different chips and would lead to any number of statements coming.
The fact is:
If I were on a 1 / 3 "chip with 2 million pixels do I have a Pixel Pitch of approx. 2.9 ¼
I bring on the same chip for SD just under 445,000 pixels, this corresponds to a PP of 6.23 ¼
With 3-chip cameras with higher pixel volume is synonymous binning possible, which ultimately also to larger pixel pitch leads.
Where is the problem?
One must, of course, the various possibilities and know not synonymous of "make room" talk.
Antwort von Daigoro:
This could not only that we even have to practice-relevant statements to be taken.
Theoretical considerations and pretty good - but what does the SD's when all the cameras' megapixel 'photographs have?
The GS330 as Schaustueck is sure to be even a good start, since it in a corner of the consumer is better - the rest does not synonymous grad's good.
The "binning" is certainly not funny, but you can in a bastardisierten version synonymous with an HD Down Scale make - and this comes back on the quality of the reduction software.
The distinction recognizes the layperson eh not.
Antwort von WoWu:
synonymous with an HD Down to Scale not because the light has now times certain proportions. If the pixel is too small, the product is blurred.
By binning the (total) pixels bigger and the projection can be played sharp.
The difference is sigifikant.
In scaling these fuzzy representations then next worse, because at
each interpolation quality is lost.
The distinction recognizes the layperson eh not. Re wrong: Extensive tests of the EBU, ZDF, and Barco, and, and ... have clearly shown that the layman well see the difference. He can not competently explain why one picture looks better than the other picture, but with absolute certainty, he characterizes the better picture.
Currently, most consumers know not only the true Resolutionvon HDTV (1920), because the industry still being denied to them and instead with the dung abspeist which gives them a FullHD sold. But the real difference to HDTV is already quite serious.
I would not because consumers underestimate .... You konsumierst but synonymous?
What should you be different? Why do you see more than the normal consumer? You see sharper, you have other eye?
What makes you so?
Antwort von Daigoro:
In scaling these fuzzy representations then next worse, because at each interpolation quality is lost.
If no "interpolation", but a "Reduction".
Boil sauce - sauce stretch.
The distinction recognizes the layperson eh not.
Re wrong: Extensive tests of the EBU, ZDF, and Barco, and, and ... have clearly shown that the layman well see the difference. He can not competently explain why one picture looks better than the other picture, but with absolute certainty, he characterizes the better picture.
Currently, most consumers know not only the true Resolutionvon HDTV (1920), because the industry still being denied to them and instead with the dung abspeist which gives them a FullHD sold. But the real difference to HDTV is already quite serious.
I would not because consumers underestimate .... You konsumierst but synonymous?
What should you be different? Why do you see more than the normal consumer? You see sharper, you have other eye?
What makes you so? I actually sharper.
20/18 according to the Snellen and after 2 decades before the screen.
Good genes.
MaFo tests, I would not over rate. Here comes the biggest nonsense regularly in rum - irrespective of the "seriousness" of the organizer. Is in the nature of things.
Antwort von PowerMac:
Now it's polemical and unobjective.
Antwort von Daigoro:
Now it's polemical and unobjective. Because of my studies s.MaFo criticism?
So I find this rather positive that Mr. Wunderlich get my argument of a few discussions followed (when it's a long time synonymous) and "resolution" is not only more than 1920x1080 independently of the "Detailschaerfe" (or as he always synonymous call will) understand.
not because the light has now times certain proportions. If the pixel is too small, the product is blurred.
By binning the (total) pixels bigger and the projection can be played sharp.
The difference is sigifikant. As usual in technical matters, you are correct, but the consumer video camera used as' real 'Binning, of how you described?
For the Picture subjective impression, however, there is still much more parameters.
Large square, "Monochrome" pixels vs. reduced anti-aliasing pixels by downconvert.
Noise ratio and other Bildstoerungen? This is at the very cheap Consumerschuesseln a major drawback and it is well with downscaling "wegkaschieren".
The picture is clean, the edges are less angular, then even if a good deinterlacing is done the picture looks really cool from .. good downscaling is not as bad as they want to do.
Antwort von Markus:
Currently, most consumers know not only the true Resolutionvon HDTV (1920), because the industry still being denied to them and instead with the dung abspeist which ... ... the basic attitude of many consumers fits: "I do's cheap!" Is it no wonder if the industry delivers the corresponding product: Eben more apparent than his. ;-)
Antwort von WoWu:
If no "interpolation", but a "Reduction".
Boil sauce - sauce stretch. About Your semiotic problems, we have already spoken.
Since I no longer need it indicates.
I actually sharper. Congratulations ... all the more incomprehensible it seems that you are admitted to the interpolation are taken .... perhaps you should then check your monitor.
MaFo tests, I would not over rate. Here comes the biggest nonsense regularly in rum - irrespective of the "seriousness" of the organizer. Is in the nature of things. A pity that nearly 100 television stations with over 4000 specialists of the Dung fooled if it (accumulated) over 10,000 professionals do not.
And all are wrong in the same direction.
Really a shame that this nonsense on television systems around the world to be ... really a pity.
Antwort von Daigoro:
If no "interpolation", but a "Reduction".
Boil sauce - sauce stretch.
About Your semiotic problems, we have already spoken.
Since I no longer need it indicates.
Now you do not speak out, the mathematical process behind it is quite different.
The interpolation from known data about a few (more or less good) formulas (which you usually only need to find times) possible intermediate steps guess.
The reduction will be made up of many well-known data clearly definable and partially synonymous gewichtbare averages formed.
Antwort von WoWu:
We talk in the bitstream of a (data) reduction (MPEG), but not in the manipulation of images at the pixel level.
I can really only the literature for obtaining knowledge of a friend in order to be able to differentiate synonymous.
Antwort von Daigoro:
I can really only the literature for obtaining knowledge of a friend in order to be able to differentiate synonymous. But I have but you. :)
And yes I would be synonymous for your insightful technical view of things to thank you not so terribly far from the topic abkämen.
I do not know when the last time the current offerings on the consumer market have studied or even the last time with such a <1000 euro Camera worked.
The SD camera, which you describe as there are simply not in the segment.
We have unfortunately just bad SD chips with small and even smaller pixels or pseudo-HD - the "better" SD (as for the HV 30 with 2.07 million, "effective" pixels / 3 ie approximately 700k), which is smaller by a bit of the omnipresent noise wegpfuschen can.
More realexistierend there's not.
And add to your library a few times during cooking, you know what synonymous with "reduce" in the culinary sense is meant.
If you have a little thing addressed interdisciplinary s.die describes the Prosess (not just the formula) and the difference between "inflation" and "evaporation" quite vividly. : P
Antwort von WoWu:
Thanks for the tip ... write cookbooks when you can send the script look a ...
