Frage von Lazy_p:
Hi,
I would be even turned full HD video footage in the AVCHD format s.PC edit (cut, edit, archive). The plan is this, either Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas to use (with two can edit AVCHD natively, know the programs but only from forums and they have not yet even tested and find out what I can do better).
I see no chance that my 4 years old notebook synonymous only way to approach the situation is, therefore, must be a complete new PC system.
I have the following requirements s.das proposed system:
1) The editing is smooth and without major delay in any effect previews to happen (very important)
2) The price-/Leistungsverhältnis should be as good (I do not want only the cheapest but quality already, but I am not synonymous to the latest and most expensive high-end components to buy)
3) The system should be as quiet as possible to
My ambition is so short is the eierlegende Wollmilchsau of PC systems at a reasonable price together ;-)
've Researched a bit and the following components according to preselected price-/Leistungsverhältnis:
CPU: AMD Phenom X4 940 4x3GHz II Black Edition (OC-good properties, because free multiplier), DDR2 - about 168,00 ¬
CPU Fan: Xigmatek HDT S1284 - approx ¬ 31.00
Mainboard: ASUS M4A78-E - AM2 + DDR2 1066MHz, ATI790GX, SB750 - about 104,00 ¬
optional: MSI DKA790GX - AM2 + DDR2 1066MHz, ATI790GX, SB750 - about 110,00 ¬
optional: Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4 AM3 DDR2, 790X, SB750 - about 94,00 ¬
graphics card: ATI Radeon HD 4870 - 1024 MB GDDR5 - about 156,00 ¬
OR
Mainboard: M3N-HT Deluxe / Mempipe - AM2 + DDR2 1066MHz, nVidia 780a SLI - approx 125.00 ¬
graphics card: Nvidia Geforce GTX 260 216 - 896 GB GDDR3 - about 156,00 ¬
RAM: 8GiB => twice 2x2GiB Kit - Corsair TWIN2X-4096-8500C5 - DDR2 1066MHz - approximately ¬ 50.00 per
OR
RAM: 8GiB => twice 2x2GiB Kit - OCZ OCZ2P10664GK - DDR2 1066MHz - approximately ¬ 50.00 per
(it is obviously a 64-bit operating system)
Hard disks: 3 times Seagate ST3500418AS 500 GB (Barracuda 7200.12) - approx 48.00 EUR each (as RAID 5)
Case: ATX Midi Thermaltake V9 (no PSU) - approximately 70.00 ¬
PSU: be quiet Straight Power BQT E6-650W (BN088) - approximately 95.00 ¬
Drive: LG Electronics (Bulk) GH-22NS SATA - approx ¬ 20.00
Drive: Scythe Kama Reader 2 black (SCKMRD-2000-BK) - approx ¬ 13.00
Monitor: 24 Inch Full HD - BenQ G2411HD - about 210,00 ¬
(I will be the components of HOH and Mindfactory order, the given prices are for one of two online shops, as of May 2009. In sum, so I come to about 1150,00 ¬)
While some have already researched but unfortunately have no practical experience can make, so I still have a few questions and concerns:
a.) Overclocking:
Have read that the above AVCHD video editing programs for a lot of CPU processing power and require that the GPU is not as relevant, because of the software are not specifically supported (test reports of "ACTIVE DIGITAL VIDEO" as the software test systems 2x Quad Core XEON (ie total of 8 cores) + 512MB GraKa use underpin this assumption) - but this is beyond my Config synonymous cost framework. Adobe Premiere supports especially the Nvidia Quadro CX 1.5 GB, but I'm not ready ~ ¬ 1700.00 just for the GraKa issue, so I would like as much as possible from the CPU rausholen.
Which of these Motherboards is suitable s.besten, the Phenom 940 and stable as possible to over clock? Which DDR2 1066 is easy to over clock and is compatible with the Boards?
If the CPU is in theory of 3 to 4 GHz overclock, then that is synonymous really a noticeable performance increase of 25%?
b.) Silent PC
The ultimate WaKü is, of course, but that is not priced much more (did a little of 300.00 ¬ for effective systems and really read silently). Did the PSU and CPU cooler to rest already respected. On housing, I am not sure at all, it provides excellent ventilation properties, but is synonymous fairly "open" with a lot of mesh and I fear
Antwort von unodostres:
So take each case on an Intel processor. The AMD might be quite nice but the performance of her can not even begin to match that. You get a lot more at Intel's for Money. And look not so much to avenge the 20-30 euro later.
I would assume Nvidia. Is geschmackssache. In my opinion, offers the best Nvidia Drivers.
Why eigendlich over clock? Geb but prefer the 50 or 100 ¬ more and get straight to the next better one. And a real board costs Overlocks times correctly coal. There are boards of all the test alone whether the processor when overclocking is stable. For this you need to but some times appeared on the table. Letzzendlich pays off the whole overclocking my opinion, absolutely not.
Antwort von Lazy_p:
@ unodostres:
The next would be better with the AMD Phenom II 955, but that would mean about 50 ¬ for 200MHz to pay more.
Synonymous Intel would buy if it only would be ¬ 20-30. The next Intel better with much more power would be the Core i7 920 (approx 250 ¬). Taking the necessary accessories such as socket 1366 mainboard (p. 165 ¬) + DDR3 memory (synonymous still more expensive than DDR2), it is at least 150 ¬ to the Intel system would cost more. Therefore, decision for AMD.
Antwort von tommyb:
@ Lazy_P
Absolutely richtrig thought. The Phenom devices are of price / performance much better off.
For DV editing, you need not be such a crude way, graphics card as you like of the listed - at least for Sony Vegas is definitely not. However, Vegas can be very good scale to play to allow liquid. So you can very well save s.der graphics card. One for 50, - it would be synonymous to do - whether ATI or Nvidia is relatively no preference.
In order to edit AVCHD liquid is required, however, already a smart box. The Phenom could s.seine limits. The graphics card s.der Money saved so you could very well be in a Core i7 stuck.
Antwort von unodostres:
Please do not make the mistake here and counts of 200 Mhz or less. This is absolutely no preference. Those times are long gone. Schaut euch mal benchmarks. The AMD's are as good as always in last position.
I can eich PC Games Hardware recommend. Entegen the name is not exclusively for Games tested. But synonymous memory throughput, etc. and all this can eigendlich 1 to 1 on the DV Editing transferred.
Antwort von tommyb:
Well ... that the processors between the producers rather than the Ghz number should compare at least since 2002, his.
The Phenom 940 holds, however, with a loose of Intel Q9550 with. And what cost? Mindfactory says: 232 euros for the 95W version, 280 for the 65W version.
And the Phenom 940? 164 Euro.
So what?
Antwort von unodostres:
I was once synonymous AMD fan. Have only AMD bought. Because the price / performance simply better. was. Meanwhile, the difference in price but not so blatantly. And since the Core2Dou has intel what concerns the performance ahead.
It may be that the Phenom has a similar performance, I guided myself because according to various benchmarks. (PC Games Hardware)
I personally prefer Intel because he is in doubt if the compatibility is higher. Whether this is now in video applications is much to bear but I know not.
The Phenom 940 for a Intel Q9550? The Intel has much more power potential. That said I with "Do not look at few euros." Look at the benchmarks. And what is more important:
In various hardware forums is reported that very many people of Phenom 940 are very disappointed. Seem well on the marketing of AMD to be fooled.
But ultimately, it is probably not matter what faith you Prozzi preferred. I personally would take Intel.
Antwort von Daigoro:
The Phenom 940 holds, however, with a loose of Intel Q9550 with. And what cost? Mindfactory says: 232 euros for the 95W version, 280 for the 65W version.
And the Phenom 940? 164 Euro.
So what? Depends on the application, which grad faster, but they do not give much.
How ever written, the problem of the AMD is not, that are not on the level and even compete on a better price / Leistungsverhaeltnis habem (especially for the CPU board's memory total package), but that AMD has at the end of the flagpole is. At Intel's (much absurd for Money) is still a bit faster.
The quiet and with the overclock on Luftkuehlungsbasis skin eh not out of preference, therefore, no isses.
Just a sentence really quieter fan for housing's more expensive than the Thermaltake,'s will probably still need something like a high end LianLi Aluminum Tower (approx 200-300Eur - plus power supply) with good air flow.
The graphics cards (both equally bad) + overclocked processor (temperature rise is not linear to the clock) + 3 hard disks in Raid (ie there is always simultaneously on all 3 is accessed) gets you can not so easily stopped.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Lazy_p
You make a conceptual error, which in so many posting here again.
There are memory-based processes, which by all Bechleunigung to be processed faster.
With AVCHD you have it (unlike MPEG2) not with such processes to be done, so use it you do not, by hardware, to support such processes.
Many people (usually with a lesser success) tries. It is not s.Calculator but s.der distribution of the processes, because even with a 2 GHz Calculator 80MHz, the image content of liquid 1080p display.
Whereas the Langzeitprädiktion the matter at AVC difficult, not in the main memory takes place.
For MPEG2 pushes a Picture in the main memory, all processes work s.and then loads the next picture.
When you have AVC (up to 16 images) over a longer hold time. This is the memory-oriented architecture is not suitable.
The processing of video data into scalar registers, usually uses only a fraction of the available dynamic range.
In the case of a logical link as of 8-bit values within a 32 bit processor, the higher 24 bits of the registers are unused. So ¾ of treatment capacity wasted.
That is better done in cash.
Cash memory as opposed to dynamic RAM devices usually consist of static memory cells and are characterized by higher throughput per cell.
In assessing the performance of storage systems is not only the amount of data per unit of time a role, but synonymous, the period between request and delivery of data. The latency.
There were also a lot to say that AMD synonymous blocks because of their architecture better for video editing are suitable ... But most important is that such software architectures. Therefore eighth less on the hardware, but on the fact that the software it can.
Saving you so thick the new calculator and you prefer to take a software-hardware combination, the liquid is already done (ADOBE premiere with the Quad-Map).
Otherwise, such combinations, such as the Apple Core 2x4 / OS 10.6 or COREi7/W7 things synonymous with no additional cards dominate.
Only it requires slightly more patience.
Not only repeated the mistake and you put a thick new calculator, which really does not gain what you really need for AVCHD.
Antwort von tommyb:
At Intel's (much absurd for Money) is still a bit faster. Sure. A golf / Ferrari Comparison;)
Antwort von Daigoro:
At Intel's (; absurd for much money) is still a bit faster.
Sure. A golf / Ferrari Comparison;) No, a I7 / Phenom II Comparison.
Antwort von Lazy_p:
Hi,
First many thanks for your replies.
@ undostres: Your Missionary experiments begin to bear fruit, I tend now synonymous with Intel, but I still not 100% sure am.
@ Daigoro: I have now accepted that the calculator is most likely not be silent, at least not without further investment in housing and cooling. Be the first to the best possible knowledge of home buying components quietly and then sometimes. right.
@ WoWu: Thank you for your detailed reply. Unfortunately'm confused than before. You say the AMD architecture is better suited for video editing and before you say Video Editing (SD in MPEG2 => the faster and larger the memory, the better) is not equal to Video Editing (HD in AVCHD, the faster and larger the cache , the better). Have I understood correctly the extent?
Embarrassed at the processors to the previously HARDWARE INFO Home based (http://www.hardware-infos.com/prozessoren_charts.php?cores=4). Since then, nor between L2 and L3 cache distinguished (Phenom 940: L2 = 4x 512, L3 = 6144 KiB, Core i7 920: L2 = 4x 256, L3 = 8192 KiB)? What is better than now for AVCHD editing?
Your proposed coordinated hardware / software combination with Adobe Premiere and a Quadro card is for the result certainly makes sense, however, costs the cheapest Quadro card, which I could find 730 ¬ and I find that simply outrageously expensive.
Supports ADOBE perhaps not synonymous current Consumer GraKas of Nvidia?
For what is the W7 in the core of you mentioned combination i7/W7 - Windows 7?
When I hover software ADOBE Premiere or Sony Vegas before, both to dominate native AVCHD editing. Whether any of the programs, however, of which you mentioned, appropriate architectures of AMD supports I do not know.
What do I need for you to view, edit AVCHD REALLY?
@ All: What hardware would you because, in combination with the above software programs (Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas) to the liquid handling of AVCHD actually propose?
Can I perhaps someone from the practical experience to say which of the above hardware with software processing liquid AVCHD-how?
Gruß,
Lazy_P
Antwort von WoWu:
Hello Lazy_P
Unfortunately'm confused than before. You say the AMD architecture is better suited for video editing This is understandable, because the image slightly out of the graphics has been developed and is now suddenly a method that specializes in Picture and much has suddenly becomes irrelevant.
AMD is not so much on high clock frequencies, which are long pipelines require and has thus a significantly better cycle efficiency.
Basically, the procedure for a better load balancing and designed with features
The limited number of available registers, particularly for applications with bi-directional filtering and multiple intermediate results in conventional architectures is a problem, the ways that each individual pixel calculation rules may apply, requires the calculation of all data paths. Such requirements will be only after a separation of the calculations in time lengths attractive interesting.
Also plays MPEG2 unlike MPEG4 decoder of the internal administration, no significant role. A whole series s.Verbesserungen allow for MPEG4 different.
Also the fact that, as already mentioned, instead of referencing an I-frames in MPEG2, up to 16 I-frames over a long period of references must be kept, will cause the volume of images the capacity of the cache quickly exceed, so a much better runtime behavior in an architecture with L2 cache can be achieved.
But systems synonymous with relatively large L2 cache must not advantageous behavior. For example, the PentumIV shows no improvement in clock cycles. Presumably, the processor considers the data processed relatively quickly as they fell and entfernd for speculative vorgelandener memory contents.
This is a general software-image problem. The block image reconstruction requires an access to two-dimensional data fields, while memory and its mapping to the cash primarily for continuous data are designed.
Therefore, here of the software, an adaptation of the computational steps s.Aufbau and operation of the memory take place.
Since this is so far in only a few programs and even fewer operating systems has taken place, I am still the hardware solution.
The DSPs are designed for such processes, and even if the calculator Hard-middle-and application software will one day follow suit, the degree of specialization of DSPs long time, probably not be achieved.
Incidentally makes premiere synonymous only with the Quad card really make sense, because (to my knowledge at present) of ADOBE (still) no such card is supported.
Despite the relatively high price but you have the advantage, not particularly exotic Calculator below to need, so far that quickly pays off again.
Vegas I do not know from personal experience, but they say it should work well for me but still represents the bottleneck middleware, thus performing, such as a hardware solution will probably not be. (?)
Ergo: My tip: Pick up your hardware, if you are in a hurry you, sparing you the cost of a large calculator.
Then you have a working system and the best chances with ADOBE that such systems on a long time (and synonymous for codecs that are not only out of the houses Sony / Panasonic come) is supported.
In addition, ADOBE synonymous extraneous codecs, of which the future with more certainty (and good) will.
So, that was "lots of stuff, although it is about much more to say there.
Sorry s.die who do not like to read long posts ... only the more complex issue is just stored as image previously was.
Antwort von pilskopf:
I know now is not the monitor of BenQ but if you buy something new, but equally s.Besten one of a very good panel and represents the colors correctly. I recommend especially 2 TFTs. Much of the cheap may be synonymous (; like because you've chosen, for example) and a smaller panel of the good has, on which you'll then have the preview. This brings enormous advantages when cutting. The cheap but TFTs have shitty verfäschste colors, I know what I'm talking about, unfortunately, so I use a. Did however get an extra small and am thrilled with how much space you have for the editing program has. Ne tube Institute for synonymous colors, all better than a cheap TFT.
Antwort von WoWu:
Hello Lazy_P
You see, companies sometimes respond faster than you think ....
Show times:
http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/pdfs/premiere_pro_4_1_update.pdf
Antwort von vidoc:
@ wowu
Saving you so thick the new calculator and you prefer to take a software-hardware combination, the liquid is already done (ADOBE premiere with the Quad-Map). What do you mean with "quad map"?
Bin attention to this thread because my Quad Q9400 is far from AVCHD in Premiere CS4 unnecessary play. Search for improvement opportunities.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Vidoc
Sorry, this was probably slightly misleading. I thought the Nvidia QuadroCX.
Your observation is absolutely right that even the multi-processor systems Fuktionen (as described) is not executed perfectly and I can, as long as there is no middleware with modified load drüber lies of such combinations only advise.
What describes the update, however, may now be synonymous probably other graphics cards of Premiere, which with the corresponding DSPs work. Perhaps among them are cheaper (hopefully).
But does it very fluently.
Antwort von vidoc:
@ wowu
oh so, yes, yes was the next synonymous mentioned above. Thank you.
But when I now look matrox video cards, I find solutions s.preiswerteren just plug the card compress HD.
Antwort von WoWu:
And I'm pretty sure that Adobe (maybe not now) s.der Matrox card is not over.
Only I would just synonymous times and compare the prices if the Nvidia Quad card is not really significantly more expensive, I would to a good fall back solution.
Antwort von vidoc:
@ wowu
So you think ADOBE supports compress HD (approx. EUR 400) did not, because the average rt.x2 card is not cheaper than the quadro.
Would it be (in principle - would be synonymous expensive) make sense to the less compressed format cineform to convert?
And yet 'ne stupid question: Of what quadro card is actually talking about here? Seems to give some ... Or did you all just the quadro CX meant that this specific H.264 CUDA exporter should get?
Antwort von WoWu:
Would it be (in principle - would be synonymous expensive) make sense to the less compressed format cineform to convert? Regarding the conversion into a different codec, there are numerous reasons for not doing so (and often are denied this).
Some say always, you can see the difference, but I would always be remembered that a workflow is not s.NLE monitor ends.
Admittedly, what is currently there, AVCHD s.Markt is really the lowest quality of AVC, which you can imagine, but I think better profiles (and other levels) are moving into the cameras and keep the gap at intermediate codecs next is always open. So why not put on AVC and start ...
LSO you think ADOBE supports compress HD (approx. EUR 400) did not, because the average rt.x2 card is not cheaper than the quadro. I do not know, but a card would only be used if they are explicitly supported ADOBE. There are currently only a "handful" s.Markt DSPs that these processes are the necessary support, but the implementation should be very accurate fit.
quadro map of what is actually talking about here? As I have already mentioned above, is about the
Nvidia QuadroCX.
Antwort von vidoc:
quadro CX: sorry, as you s.meinem edited Contributors can see, I was now synonymous discovered. Well that's priceless for me, more than double my entire computer ...
therefore remains only to wait until everything is affordable.
