Frage von Martinz:
Hello,
wanted some advice for the purchase of a 16GB SDHC card intermediaries. What is in this segment from experience to recommend and make sense?
Thank you very much and friendly greetings,
Martin
Antwort von B.DeKid:
Hi
Without really closely related to this card now and experience in the video memory card case to have ......
- NoName brand memory products should be preferred, especially for fast access (eg, multiple exposure photos)
- You always buy 2 of the same brand / Speicherkkarten a stable envelope / pouch is COMPULSORY.
- Memory cards should be purchased online retailer because the price range considerably to the prices of eg Media Markt Saturn or similar varies - synonymous the media market may be certain sizes (yet) not at the range.
- Bill always good lift synonymous card can be exchanged - PLEASE ALWAYS LowLevel ALL FORMATTING ;-)
- Good Mobile backup solution s.der hand to memory card directly after / during the shootings to secure.
Alla MfG
B. DeKid
Antwort von Zizi:
I had my Pana SD9 a 16GB for 65 ¬ of TRANCENT indoors!
Everything went wonderfully!
So with all the rubbish of overpriced original Panasonic ...
Just because the minimum speed in the transmission are ...
If all you ding wait 5 seconds longer on the PC transfer 100 ¬ more cheaply then the horizontal orinal ;-)!
Antwort von Jan:
Well, just for the recording for a consumer camcorder really fast cards are always a Schmarn. Because even the best MPEG 4 HD camcorder up to date with 17 Mbits / sec is only just over 2 MB / sec need.
MPEG 2 HD JVC as they are offered with up to 27 Mbit / sec (the cameras with SD / HC cards) which, a Class 4 card. 16 GB cards are normally anyway often faster than most Class 4 Class 6th
But please be careful, cheap Manufacturer write on their cards often utopian Class 4 & 6 figures. I have a client with the least need to know where a cheap Class 6 card not even 4 MB / sec, has managed the Panasonic Camera said "must stop - map is too slow ...."
Panasonic even gives MPEG-4 HD for a Class 2, MPEG 2 HD for a Class 4th
It is thus to create more games in the PC than the mere recording.
VG
Jan
Antwort von WoWu:
Jan and Zizi, because I have to contradict times
.... Video is fundamentally different than photography and on the memory card while the recording is really "the bear off."
Photos can still hold in the cache until it is not found defective memory, all stored and has been verified. With 25 or images / sec. (or more) is already slightly more difficult. Since there will be a permanent access, store and verify instead. There are always several files simultaneously written and regularly closed.
In the P2 system, for example in 4 memory cards used in parallel to the adjacent bus s.internen interests bandwidth to come.
The administration accepts a host controller in P2 PCMCIA housing.
The modules can only be in the width of the page registry described. The NAND at 20 MHz and 2048 words, all 700ys cycle are stored. It is the management and error handling, because memory modules are with any writing process next "damaged". But not only management but many other processes that describe the context here would blow up, demand for video has a lot of the card.
It would be easy to think that the transport speed of the data should be restricted.
Also I do not know how long the card with the second and third choice goes well. Quite aside from that flash even with faulty cells is delivered (this is normal, up to 40 blocks even with the best quality product), I can well imagine that when the card looks cheap .... and the particulars of the wear and tear of 100,000 accesses (and zTmehr) per memory card does not refer to the power but on the read / write operations during which the cells do not always remove them and thus sustained damaged.
You see so many things are fairly easy to explain ... perhaps synonymous, why the data in the Consumer still cameras is kept quite low ... higher data rates require a larger storage system ... not only after a larger map.
In 10-bit 4:4:4 systems, for example, about 130 cards in parallel over 16 internal coaches. ... well, other league but it's clear that flash memory is not simply a replacement cassette is.
Who's video is worth something, which saves not s.der card.
Antwort von chlorophyll:
If his video ... so something is worth, which saves not s.der card. Or prejudice to the tape ... ;-)
Time in an emergency - if memory really so "vulnerable" are, I have the same problem as with the drop outs on the (H) IR bands, only much more expensive.
And the tapes have the advantage that the archive must not umkopieren.
Antwort von WoWu:
Well, not quite ...
of course, are synonymous because of the limited shelf life of the head drums, the poor S / N ratio, it does not allow any more than 8 bits Resolutionzu go and of course, synonymous mechanical fragility of the tapes (drop-out).
The Dropout Problems of memory cards are the way, with the "Bad Block" bypassed tables in which the memory management of all defective cells and writes the block is managed.
Also, tapes are not as optimal storage media (Long) out.
In addition, of course, that the memory access - rather than consumers, because probably no longer than 25 Mbit / s beyond) when tape is too slow.
1080p in the "real" tape with Resolutionist simply not feasible.
There are still a few more, synonymous massive economic reasons .... but the caravan is now considered next and there is little opportunity to reflect on how nice it could have been ...
Antwort von Zizi:
yes quite've ..
I'm honestly glad that the time of the tapes "over" are!
Nevertheless, at the moment, the tape is still the best stand and storage s.markt what it is!
Alone of the HDV codec has for me is still better compression with less error than AVCHD!
AVCHD is called in its early stages and if you ask me do not STILL marketable!
alone because it is so Sogut as of any device / player / cut support and equipment to participate deffekt even if you can go to play AVCHD ...
In a few years will be different but at the moment is the better Mpeg2 format as the 4er!
Antwort von WoWu:
Well, Zizi, because you're certainly not bad to me if I'm a different opinion, especially as MPEG2 and MPEG 4, the development is virtually the same age, MPEG2, but relatively quickly s.den start to digital TV and had s.MPEG 4 many years could be further developed and it is therefore more sophisticated than it ever was MPEG2.
This comes just yet that this unspeakable bad DCT no longer be used, which, since MPEG is always a cause for (legitimate) criticism.
So it is not that MPEG4 is a newer format .... MPEG2 is just a quick birth been s.der around for many years and we gedocktert was always real improvements in terms of backward compatibility, not carried out.
And with the defective devices .... na, I do not know what the back for "Tales from the Vienna Woods" are.
Maybe because you have specific times?
Antwort von Jan:
Wolfgang, but this is to max 17 Mbit / sec (current) Consumer AVCHD.
Panasonic is even s.das a Class II - ie a map in each case 2 MB / sec write and can read (usually these cards with 3-5 MB / sec) for AVCHD camcorders cards suffice.
For MPEG 2 HD (such as JVC HD 3,5,6,7 etc) should be according to Panasonic designed a Class 4 card.
It is synonymous in the general catalog of Panasonic 2007 as synonymous the 2008th At 2008 on 96th Page Pana would hardly slower cards for their devices recommend - if not 100% would be sufficient.
I've often synonymous a rather slow 1 GB Panasonic SD card code name - SDR - taken for testing. The only Class 2 and has in the few minutes it worked never strikes. From 4 GB card is often the speed eh Class 4 (which is the speed for a San Disk Ultra) or Class 6 (speed class for San Disk Extreme III).
As I said I had the experience that a card inserted, the camera is too slow for thought - say the cameras of the often within 30-60 sec. In my case it was a Panasonic TZ 5 Digicam - the video has 1280x720 resolution and 30 B / sec - the second data rate is expected to slightly above 3 MB / sec are - as they are with Quicktime Motion JPEG stores - which is a very slight compression is.
VG
Jan
Antwort von WoWu:
Yes, Jan, I give you are absolutely right, no manufacturer would recommend a slower card than the requirement allowed. The core of the statement was synonymous only, not to build, that slower cards necessarily fulfill the purpose, just because the data rate of the video abzuspeichernden lies within the classification.
I had synonymous to higher requirements only as an example, due to such systems is actually going on and that with increasing data rate is much more difficult. That is precisely against such photos ....
And the actual work and the right s.die card only happens in the system.
Not for nothing are striped cards, synonymous to slower and thus more economical to be able to use maps. Probably not in the consumer area ... but it is not synonymous yes at 17 Mbit / s airport ..
From this point of view is only a very loose connection between maps and data specification.
I would be there already at the request of the manufacturer to leave. For example, I come with a slower specification perfectly, if I use multiple cards at once.
Because we do not in any camera to know what and how the manufacturer makes it, is the choice of the map is not arbitrary.
Also, it remains the vendor to decide in what format he writes.
In P2 we know it very well because as the market leader Panasonic given out makes no secret and can only draw conclusions on other Manufacturer draw, sometimes by their Geheiniskrämerei only try to hide weaknesses.
I think that we are still a lot of surprises with the use of the cards will experience. So far the only systems of Ikegami (a pioneer) and Panasonic's long experience with truly free of the bugs.
Antwort von Zizi:
regarding defective:
AVCHD Caution
DVDs with high definition video in the AVCHD format, should not be inserted into device, the AVCHD format does not support them. This is synonymous standard DVD player and DVD recorder. The DVDs will be inappropriate in systems not render correctly and can be damaged and may even come s.Wiedergabegerät dysfunction.
So I am going to buy me AVCHD format if that is the market ..
So in about 1 year.
Until then, for me, the better HDV format!
Had now already 4 AVCHD cams and was happy with None.
Now that the series of RF Canon was there, I decided rather fürn HV30 and regret it not one bit!
Antwort von WoWu:
Out of interest:
On what kind of a manual (or paper) have you found?
Given the short time in the AVCHD s.Markt significantly represented, you have quite a lot of money invested, you like every 2 months a new camera to buy.
I can well understand that you now have some "solid" back attack.
Antwort von Zizi:
Out of interest:
On what kind of a manual (or paper) have you found?
Given the short time in the AVCHD s.Markt significantly represented, you have quite a lot of money invested, you like every 2 months a new camera to buy.
I can well understand that you now have some "solid" back attack.
What do you mean with dapper?
The warning I AVCHD from the Canon HP!
AVCHD cams I have:
SonyCX6
Panasonic SD1, SD5 and SD9
Not because I have so much money, but because I sold it on Ebay and was mainly because not much was loss, because I have a cheap Panasonic dealer I've found the device 1 month before Realease extremely vegünstig sold.
However, was really satisfied with None, s.ehesten with the SD1.
but to me (maybe synonymous imagination) the quality of my HDV Cams really better and is flawless.
What next for new AVCHD maybe always will be better but at the moment I just still immature and there is no AVCHD cam gives me the necessary feeling Cam offers!
Are usually so small "toys" when the chips are too small for the amount of pixels which they must process.
A question as an aside: Why not build Panasonic HDV Cams?
Did the absence of any license for this?
Antwort von WoWu:
404ERR
Antwort von Zizi:
Strange .. in the field of consumer HDV Panasonic is not represented at all and there would be s.meisten Money to fetch?
A pity the GS 400/500 cams were perfect yet.
This in HDV would be a dream!
Antwort von Jan:
@ Zisi - Panasonic is simply the view that HD in the consumer area with a tape and asked to be less practicable represents. In addition, the bandwidth of MiniDV tapes for HD too limited to big now to develop what it - so in the future in mind.
Yes, Panasonic has HD cameras mixed "with bands like the HVX 200 & 200 A - but rather they are the exceptions. Furthermore, with flash memory is significantly more profit - a price war with Sony & Canon Is there more to win, because 25% lower manufacturing costs are not inconsistent with the identical HDV cameras.
In the HD professional Panasonic But the area is already partially operational even on tape. Flashmemory win but more and more s.Wirkung - Panasonic is always a flash memory-friendly company.
@ Wolfgang - I have my statement partially retire, Canon indicates in the manual that came with the HF 10 & 100 (AVCHD 17 MBit / sec) when using the 17 Mbit / sec quality level to Class 4 cards out - the use of "inferior" levels of quality 1440x1080 but a 2nd class
VG
Jan
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Jan
Thanks for the hint ... I must admit that I have with these self-classifications will have a closer and there's plenty of room for rework have.
Synonymous Especially against the background that a manufacturer at NAB a colorful bouquet s.Adaptern offered by any map on any format to be adapted.
I can imagine that this is not always going to can. But as far as I'm not, so I'm happy about every hint.
Antwort von Jan:
Panasonic is one of the first providers to the clarity of the speed classes for memory cards wanted. Speeds such as 20 Mb / s or 133x are simply wild Werbeausagen, as the cards normally rarely create.
San Disk Primus had a short time synonymous the Class 4 & 6 for their Ultra II (normally is 10 MB / sec on it) and Extreme III cards (typically 20 MB / sec) forgiven, but removed again. It is synonymous with San Disk or intermediate groups such as the Extreme III Ducati Edition (I think there were 45 MB / sec on it) or the Ultra with 15 MB / sec.
The reason why the class of San Disk has been removed, one can imagine. Some Ultra card owner was a little shocked that this card "only" 4 MB / sec always creates in spite of the large 10 MB / sec printing. Customers to muck around with great information, sales activities as honest statements .....
The Class 4 and 6 indicate, however, is not a "carte blanche", as I was last at a Praktica Class 6-8 GB SDHC card had to learn - not even the 4 MB / sec created!
VG
Jan
Antwort von WoWu:
Thank you Jan, the hab'ich me in my saved files over.
Say, what are these rankings mean?
Who has established and is there such a thing as a standardization for?
If the manufacturer only a loose arrangement or somehow there is a labeling requirement?
The issue is likely with increasing bandwidth yes * always interesting. So for me, is reason enough for me as synonymous times to the administrative parts to worry about.
In any case, thanks for the good info.
* (I know, like someone meckert again, because I use the wrong phrase)
Antwort von tobi1977:
Uh, somehow I'm out of this discussion has not yet become quite clever. If I have a Canon HF100 with 17MBps and a memory of either Panasonic, Transcend or Sandisk wants to do so, what would you (Jan) recommend? Transcend and Sandisk are cheap manufacturer?
@ Y = WoWu greek mu ( 'mü')?
Antwort von Jan:
Since I have no idea exactly who is responsible.
My memory cards Panasonic representatives said the Panasonic this topic is quite important - that is to say the clarity should prevail. Panasonic initiator? No idea .....
Panasonic says that the flash memory only a Class II, IV or VI, if they obtain in each case 2,4 or 6 MB / sec writing and reading can provide.
Since I "Dealers" bin, I get quite often sent many cards. Therefore I am only pleased that San Disk card synonymous the Class 4 and 6 noted, but was in a few weeks still surprised that the information at the next delivery again been omitted. Meanwhile, I have no more San Disk card with a class name.
The company may have a "loose arrangement", otherwise I can not explain to me synonymous why a Class VI Cheap card (the same icon as the Panasonic cards) for an average data of 3,25 MB / sec is not coming back .. ..
VG
Jan
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Host
Yes, y = ¼. I find just as quickly, the characters on my keyboard and not always starting shortly. Sorry
Antwort von Jan:
@ Guest - Transcend because I know less and not distributed, I can be difficult to express. About the company from Taiwan, one hears, but rather good.
The U.S. Flash Memory Manufacturer San Disk is such a thing - yes, the best-known company at all - has developed the SD card - and is today the world leader.
San Disk Ultra II is s.der (the Class 4 card / 10 MB / sec) are very popular, 10-year warranty is already a good start. I have little problems with the cards - the withdrawal rate is very low. And then when the customer purchased the wrong card, or device tolerates no 2 GB card, so really broken, there is a few cards.
Under the Ultra - the normal San Disk - is more critical. Many other companies complain that the card is a cheaper electronics, who is in this card is a high card (halt because SanDisk brand name) is expected, is often disappointed. Also, the speeds are slower to lengths.
Particularly stressful, it was with the simple 2 GB, which in recent times with some Navi's, Philips' new digital picture frame and Fuji digital cameras with SD slot often stopped their operation.
San Disk has just once again a title at the EISA (European Imaging and Sound Association) won - best card 2007 / 2008 with the 4 GB SDHC Card - Extreme III.
I would therefore only San Disk Ultra but recommended.
Panasonic are very good, I almost never have trouble. The Rückholquote is very low as the Ultras of San Disk
Schön is synonymous to the small cheap tickets exist. The SDM 2 GB for about 6-8 ¬ - it creates Class 4 (ie as fast as a San Disk Ultra) - a fairly cheap card for the speed, the warranty period, but it is "only" 2 years.
Canon asked the filmmakers of the HF 10 / 100 during operation of the 17 Mbit / sec 1920x1080 modes a Class 4 board to use. So sure is a San Disk Ultra or a Class 4 Panasonic. I hope times Transcend holds its speed, then goes up a 66x or halt Class 4 (I do not know how Transcend now make their data).
VG
Jan
Antwort von yeah:
Thank you, Jan!
