Frage von MartinMcFly:
Hello!
I wonder momentarily zuzulegen me a new camera.
I play in with the thoughts SonyHvr-Z1E
or would you prefer a used Betacam in the same price range.
The camera is in the broadcast sector (TV), and are used for feature films.
I just wonder whether the Z1E, through which can ranreichen HDV Resolutionund as a 3-chipper s.eine Betacam. Above all the noise is supposed to be a problem in the HDV camera.
Has anyone experiences and / or a Comparison or a tip he can give me here?
Greetings and thanks in advance
Denis
Antwort von Wiro:
Hello,
I would first of all at once you ask of the target broadcast companies, as it looks with HD. Do you accept it? In what form? HD or SD? Do you want a Betacam master? Or an MPEG-HDV? What experiences have they done with HDV in Sendbetrieb? What do the technicians of the broadcast about this company?
Thereafter, the decision will be easier.
Greeting Wiro
Antwort von MartinMcFly:
So therefore I have no problems.
to me it's really about the image quality
Antwort von gaddagah:
Is it synonymous all necessary equipment available? The problem is not the camera, but begins only with decks, etc. to ...
Antwort von MartinMcFly:
Complete editing suite is available with Camp beta layer, etc.
I am talking really about the camera. I only Betacam and minidv 1-chipper know, I have this comparison. But have no idea how the 3-are chipper. let alone 3-HDV Chipper!
Big difference in quality or even None ...?
Antwort von PowerMac:
So if you say, movies, theatrical films and in the same breath, beta, no. Whether SP, SX or no - no. The only beta, is making with the film digitally and it costs 10 times as much.
I would really take the Z1.
The lens is not really bad, at best, the handling could be fiddly annoying.
've Surely heard that their quality, if you can corresponding to s.Schluss herunterrechnet of HDV on a PAL Digibeta ".
Moreover, it has a mode that frames at least tried to imitate the look.
I contend that of the Z1 HDV s.end than PAL is much better than a Beta SP Picture.
Where you of course in the EB could be used in handling problems.
Antwort von MartinMcFly:
Thanks for the tip, PowerMac.
Which correspond to a Digibeta HDV may "," I have not heard, no. Therefore, the question here:) How you are referring to your knowledge?
You're right. With Beta and scenic film - looks at court show fakes out! ;)
Mir's just important that I synonymous interviews can make that look for tv. So rich colors - no noise.
With 1-chipper dv cameras, I'm not completely satisfied!
Antwort von wolfgang:
And why can not be the JVC HD101?
Antwort von MartinMcFly:
Where is the benefit of the JVC HD101?
Have a small Sonytick. The JVC seems to have more manual settings.
But apparently the picture quality is said to have some shortcomings.
Or how do you see?
Antwort von PowerMac:
http://filmerforum.de/Forum/search.php?mode=results&sid=09f7206d825920d2d2f304a39fe0810d
in one of the threads to several people to speak.
What you need is a good HDV camera, such as the Sony. If you are good films in HDV, vsim focus area and proper control of the situation.
Say no wild or stray light pans, then the HDV encoder is well with.
This material can be precisely s.Mac / PC with runterrechnen one good scaler to PAL. From 756x576 to 1440x1080.
That looks good, they can already almost think.
It is important for HDV pay attention to:
http://forum.slashcam.de/viewtopic.php?p=111333 # 111,333
The Sonyist all right for you. The JVC has noh some teething problems, also it only stands to 24/25 progressive, which is unsuitable for your EB-normal things (!!).
What is clear is also much better than the picture of a 1-Chipper.
Lend you over the weekend but the Z1 of Sonymal out. Come possibly to 100-150 euros. So you can test it and learn.
Saves money in the end. Better than to buy into the blue due to other opinions the wrong one.
Patrick
Antwort von MartinMcFly:
So I had really decided to SonyHvr-Z1E. The Sound and the tests had convinced me.
That with the pan is of course a problem which I need to take in Purchase. (or should I make slow pans, and then double the speed?;))
I hold that wants it at least looks as if I had filmed on Betacam, when I do interviews.
Antwort von motiongroup:
Now we have 2 FX1 s.The HD100U in use but they do not come herann .. also, this Cam is a dreichiper and no one-chip ...
apart from the interchangeable lens ...
With the advantages of the 50i instead of 25p or even 50p you should explain perhaps synonymous
The cam can 720/24p, 720/25p, 720/30p, 576/50p, 480/60p, 480/24p, 480/60i
späterstens him .... we are looking at keyen
The HD10U you might think that no longer exists and I is the einchipnachteil sags mal so not always real
Antwort von wolfgang:
http://filmerforum.de/Forum/search.php?mode=results&sid=09f7206d825920d2d2f304a39fe0810d
So complaining that there were links to the video meeting, not be read without registration - and this link is now even on a bare search function is surely the best! But only in passing.
The Sonyist all right for you. The JVC has noh some teething problems, also it only stands to 24/25 progressive, which is unsuitable for your EB-normal things (!!).
What is clear is also much better than the picture of a 1-Chipper.
Lend you over the weekend but the Z1 of Sonymal out. Come possibly to 100-150 euros. So you can test it and learn.
Saves money in the end. Better than to buy into the blue due to other opinions the wrong one.
Sorry, this is the content no longer tenable. The DV Forum has been reported that for the split screen Beginners disease is now a firmware solution.
The recording in 24 or 25p is better in many ways Qualitatively 1080i, with smooth motion, the function of the HD101 is perfectly adequate motion blur in there. The belief that this is compared with 1080i is not usable for any type of recording is a pure superstition. Whoever wrote this has not yet worked with the device.
And the HD101 is synonymous not a one-chip, and of the entire equipment is not synonymous consumer camera like the souped-FX1 alis Z1, but a real shoulder-mounted camera for the professional market. Since you have a very different quality in hand, but the HD100/101 synonymous costs significantly more.
But can read all details about the device itself:
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=1457&boardid=36&styleid=6
Antwort von PowerMac:
[quote = "wolfgang"]
http://filmerforum.de/Forum/search.php?mode=results&sid=09f7206d825920d2d2f304a39fe0810d
So complaining that there were links to the video meeting, not be read without registration - and this link is now even on a bare search function is surely the best! But only in passing.
thou hast nen vogel!
The link was supposed to depend on four links found there; found with "+ HDV, Digibeta.
This is wrong! The camera takes no 50p or 60p on! Only 24, 25 and 30p. On the analog component output to the lies anymore.
I played around s.dem thing. Pseudofilmmäßig see everything from here on Picture, if you reinmacht this blur effect, wants vorgauckeln the fields, so it looks really small. The picture in general I would describe as very Videolastig. To sharp for the scope, they would like to mention the scenic area.
In addition, the lens unusable m. E. after. It is far too narrow, somewhere 40-45mm equiv. to 35mm chip, the Resolutionnimmt strong s.Aperture 8 s.and she breathes during focusing. Even harder. Does she really useless for many people. As a cheap photo lens. And greater costs a lot.
To talk of dead pixels, and split screen, oh well. Teething problems perhaps.
Nevertheless, this is not a prof. Shoulder-mounted camera. Schonmal had on the shoulder's? This OHRDING (balanced luckily abmachbar), small, ill. And far too short to take advantage of the stabilization of the shoulder.
The Battery is not synonymous holds particularly long.
Moreover, it is so well suited for Martin synonymous because of Resolutionnicht. The 1440x1080 is much better for the scale-down of Pal than 1280x720.
I think with the Z1 you can work well. Has anyone seen the last video of greenhouse? Z1 and Movietube. Can you look at the camera synonymous pool in Lubu.
Dear Wolfgang, you assume, without really wanting to, I think bounce here everyday working life in TV / film to know better amateurs.
Patrick
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Is there a link to the acclaimed video?
Antwort von PowerMac:
Wolfgang, at least, your display is neat.
To my criticisms of you, but a barely walk.
One can but an EB film maker has no exclusive full-screen Camera recommend, so please!
I have both already had in hand, even rotated, and no, no ducks in the Prater, or my grandchildren:) But theatrical film.
What I just think, the HVX200 would be even better for our candidate ... almost like a DVX only in HD.
Has a class Cinemodus and a great field mode.
Whoever wins his contribution as DVCPRO HD, get safely from great looks;))
Antwort von PowerMac:
Video of the current greenhouse is believe, which means "you." Plays senem boat in the Caribbean and synonymous s.Strand. MTV / VIVA often s.Tag.
He who comes from Stuttgart, it can look into the camera Luwigsburg pool in Film and Media
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Acha,
this
hier
Noch genauer here with "DU" Fein gemacht ...
Antwort von PowerMac:
just that
looks great, then habs s.Monitor times
Antwort von wolfgang:
thou hast nen vogel!
So I hardly think that I have a bird, my friend. Or even if I have one, then you probably stands as a statement in the ninth way to ...
Your link goes to halt a search engine, no more and no less. Anyone feeling sowas postet should not stop abusing others who share views synonymous links - but put more broken links or keep shut up.
For more substantive part: I did not say that the HD101 would take 720 50p or 720 60p to tape. Or - where the stands of me? On the component input on 50p/60p is because you're right, I admit. But I have nothing else says.
But we hold times: YOU have for this application, a pure consumer product with 1080i recommended, which is even more hideous than 720p in one unit, at 7000 Euro. And now you come with DVCPROHD therefore ... The halt does not fit together any more. 1080i should be able to that in Comparison to 1080i better 720 25p can not do it more, and then abruptly recommended DVC PRO HD. Dich mal Decide what you really mean.
And for Optics: So if the FX1/Z1 Optics is better than the lens of the HD101, I'll eat enes broom. I have found neither a breathing, or anything else that could FX1/Z1 in terms of better optics.
The same probably applies to your camera to the shoulder Comparison: The FX1/Z1 is not even a shoulder camera, the HD101 at least already. The Pana is not something.
Another thing: we do not compare well ¬ 30,000 devices - for that would neither tolerate nor FX1/Z1 the HD101.
Scale Down on PAL: Where is the knowledge that 1440x1080 is much better in the downscale, as of the 720p? To resize an interlaced format to another interlaced format - where each NLE / hardware has to deinterlace the interlaced video before resizing only lossy times - compared with a progressive point where you stop for a full screen without deinterlacing resized, but must be calculated-between? On and on I think this question is indeed exciting, but I would be tempted to None without clear evidence of such statement. Therefore, the question s.dich if you have some time for this claim the sound-?
It is true that I come from the amateur camp - and na? At least I know that the EBU, gives priority to 720p before 1080i. And not taking up as a result, many broadcasters tend to 720 50p (25), rather than 1080i.
Boy, I see considerable inconsistency in your entire line of argument. From personal insults to dissidents not to mention ...
Antwort von MartinMcFly:
I've just seen the video.
Clearly, there is the 35mm on it and the colors extremely Movietube adjusted accordingly etc.
but still looks quite nice and convinced me even more for the Z1E ...
@ powermac
well you know the HVX200?
1920 x 1080 and 24P are true?
Antwort von MartinMcFly:
@ wolfgang
The HD101 comes for me is more the question.
Not because of picture quality, but rather the low-class. More than ¬ 5000 I would not spend it all.
If you think a big difference when he, on the SonyCamcordern?
Antwort von PowerMac:
Without going into Wolfgang, the JVC HD101 is simply nothing for EB.
The HVX200 has only s.Weihnachten / January. Will cost around 7-9000 euros + P2s.
The recent opinions on it are good, the best picture in the 5-20 one thousand high-class, good features. But just Dorch quite expensive.
Antwort von PowerMac:
But we hold times: YOU have for this application, a pure consumer product with 1080i recommended, which is even more hideous than 720p in one unit, at 7000 Euro. And now you come with DVCPROHD therefore ... The halt does not fit together any more. 1080i should be able to that in Comparison to 1080i better 720 25p can not do it more, and then abruptly recommended DVC PRO HD. Dich mal Decide what you really mean.
And for Optics: So if the FX1/Z1 Optics is better than the lens of the HD101, I'll eat enes broom. I have found neither a breathing, or anything else that could FX1/Z1 in terms of better optics.
The same probably applies to your camera to the shoulder Comparison: The FX1/Z1 is not even a shoulder camera, the HD101 at least already. The Pana is not something.
Another thing: we do not compare well ¬ 30,000 devices - for that would neither tolerate nor FX1/Z1 the HD101.
Scale Down on PAL: Where is the knowledge that 1440x1080 is much better in the downscale, as of the 720p? To resize an interlaced format to another interlaced format - where each NLE / hardware has to deinterlace the interlaced video before resizing only lossy times - compared with a progressive point where you stop for a full screen without deinterlacing resized, but must be calculated-between? On and on I think this question is indeed exciting, but I would be tempted to None without clear evidence of such statement. Therefore, the question s.dich if you have some time for this claim the sound-?
It is true that I come from the amateur camp - and na? At least I know that the EBU, gives priority to 720p before 1080i. And not taking up as a result, many broadcasters tend to 720 50p (25), rather than 1080i.
. 1. Is the Z1 definitely not a consumer product. Even if it had one when it matter? It is one of the Picture s.Schluss, not the ego with shoulder-mounted camera around to run. She has a good Resolutionin HD, Pro has the usual features such as XLR or peaking, a follow focus and is fairly easy. I do not know what should be better for EB under 10 T.
In addition, you can get a decent picture of her on film. Although gefaked, but the look is interesting, nothing else.
2. The Z1 has a better wide Angleund not breathing. When I had the thing in his hands, and although it was so terrible. Schärfeziehen impossible.
3. Well, and? It is synonymous with no shoulder! And if need be, then right. The JVC is not really good for m. M. after that.
4. I do not have evidence. I do not have HD Camera. At least, why should when HDV interlaced scaled down to be what it takes to make internal full pictures? A good system like Final Cut Pro, or an MC makes sure not. The question is not. But because this is not synonymous to Progressive because he wants synonymous EB and you can not.
5. Nice that you are for 720p. If we have been discussing basically the TV Standards: Then you know synonymous sure that HDV is 1080 and HDTV 1080 different things.
Have you ever thought that spending such as the FW900 or 750 synonymous 1920x1080 25p? While in Halbbildsignal 50i, but still progressive. Come out to the absolute same.
1080i does not necessarily mean an interlace save material, but only the radiance of interlaced fields, ussynonymous to bandwidth. But twice the resolution! Good, some proponents 1080i synonymous my better motion representation (having general) such as football and sport. I do not agree.
In the penultimate cameraman a Special to HD, the various fronts was compared.
6. HVX200 that I bring into play, yes and?
Okay, it is probably too expensive anyway, and not yet available. Nevertheless, they were still a stückweit better than the Sony. Nevertheless, both professionals. Can quasi 1080p and 720p output.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Whether this re Joerg writes an open letter?
Antwort von wolfgang:
Then stop collide opinions that can not verfizieren falsify or so. Most readily with empirical studies.
Currently, are just the choices in the camcorder still limited. Personally, I would want to actually go to 720 50p or 50p synonymous 1080, which neither the souped-FX1 can take up the HD101 to disk. Synonymous's just a question of cost, the aforementioned Panasonic will halt the necessary P2 chips with very quickly reach the $ 10,000 limit.
I would be here for this discussion but the issue already on
camcorders and want to tie
the record with camcorders, the difference between HDV and HDTV have this thread here rather little. What help is if there about s.Komponentenausgang full HDTV quality is present or not? That would only be of interest if the same is recorded differently - some purely via SDI into an editing machine.
No, the bottleneck is definitely the record format if you want to work the next disk (and normally will probably synonymous), and against this background, the discussion of 720p versus 1080i already has a relevance.
Bruno has even taken together vulnerabilities honest here:
http://www.hennek-homepage.de/video/hdv.htm
And that makes it even makes sense to think about whether you want to record in principle, still half-frames or not - in an era of more progressive vision devices. Thus, it is seemingly irrelevant to this thread, if an effect like a rescaling calculation must deinterlace before or not. But only apparently.
Because I stopped to ask simply: what will make the software to where, after the rescaling of 1440x1080 have to resort to 720x576 in a blank line? The 1080 lines can be assigned only stop with the ratio 1875 to 576 lines of PAL and pass on that, unfortunately, not 1:1. And so that you can umskalieren without prior deinterlacing think they might not really missing in the Field gewungenermaßen lines must be interpolated.
Why is this relevant now? Simply because, at every step of forced moderation deinterlacing image information loses, synonymous of 1080i to SD. But even if you remain in HD, so probably have the most HD vision devices have a scaler, and then deinterlace the display unit.
And if you know this, then one synonymous know that you have the conversion of 1080i to SD halt losing image information forced measure, And that seems to have the advantage of 1080i to 720p rather, the 1080i time would have strictly from the perspective of the number of pixels.
In empirical tests with test groups threw halt so that compared to 720p on 1080i only extremely large vision devices (beamer in widescreen) had an advantage. In a plasma with 50 Inch stop gaining 720p (although 720 50p).
Z1, the FX1 as I will not deny their ability to call on but synonymous and for the HD101. Both have in common is that they record with relatively low data rates, and not just located in the professional sector are in terms of data rates. Artifacts gibts in principle less for progressive images, with limited data rates. Times with the ratio (pixels per minute) / (data rate) for 720p is synonymous cheaper than 1080i. One has but in one case per minute 38.8 m pixels, in another case, only 19.4 m pixels - and the data rates at 1080i not twice as high as 720p, as can be easily read. What this means for the hardware encoder, and where therefore s.Artefakte the low number is to be expected, which can be counted in s.Fünf fingers.
The are just the - hopefully once comprehensible - considerations that move me to my current knowledge, rather to 720p. Maybe even get results that change this assessment. The earlier fears about that 720p would show a strobe-effect, I could not even after detailed testing to confirm with my PD1.
But this much I otherwise have not really new points that would be relevant to this issue. And since I basically do not want to argue here - if I'm not just a bird show - I'll stand with the views of these substantive answer that.
@ Bruno,
no, we are discussing thematic, although
Antwort von jens:
Whether this re Joerg writes an open letter? Sorry guys, do not let interfere. Make fun, zulesen here with. Just a small note, I can not help myself:
Bruno, slowly you make yourself ridiculous. Include but rather in the appropriate thread position as bully around here too ;-)
Greetings, Jens
And now, next! From the topic!
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
@ Wolfgang,
You have with your statement from your point of view is right. Since I need add nothing more.
Weiter so!
