Frage von mannohneplan:
Hello first!
I wanted to ask what you would generally recommend me
- HDV or
- MiniDV
MiniDV is great because it can process a good and fast. In addition, the camcorders are much cheaper compared to HDV.
That HDV has a much larger Resolutionwas look contributes to the cinema (as ruessel 4:2:2 ???).
Which format should I choose?
HDV or DV?
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
HDV ...
Antwort von mannohneplan:
Take better not HDV. (also has 4:2:0)
Take MiniDV or wait for AVCHD
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) That has a far greater HDV Resolutionwas look contributes to the cinema (as ruessel 4:2:2 ???). (...) Ouch and ouch again.
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
He said Jehovah!
I recommend a cup of tea and MiniDV.
Antwort von ruessel:
That HDV has a much larger Resolutionwas look contributes to the cinema (as ruessel 4:2:2 ???). Where did I write that?
HDV has 4:2:0 ...... HDV has downscaled to SD 4:2:2 ......
Antwort von Axel:
The price / performance ratio agrees with HDV for amateurs at all. Even someone who already has a
HDready device and a quick calculator, must pay for the very-much-more s.Resolutionein more s.Money.
This is the only criterion Resolutiondas in which HDV at all points. And here is synonymous only with peaceful motives. A contemplative view with the river looks okay from a moving car, you can not take it, for example, because the motion resolution is lousy too. This is for me the crucial shortcoming. Film speed is more a roller coaster ride than an hour in front of the aquarium. Everything I've seen so far on HDV was sharp and optical content fad. Typfrage seems to be. The amateur today voluntarily several hundred euros in the high-wind shot,
wants no action.
All the rest, cut, features and price of the camcorder, easy reproduction and distribution gains, as DV.
Antwort von Wiro:
HDV has 4:2:0 ...... HDV has downscaled to SD 4:2:2 ...... Hello,
so slowly the chaos will be perfect.
Why has scaled 4:2:2 HDV to SD?
PAL operates both as synonymous with HDV DV with 4:2:0 - that's a norm.
What Have I misunderstood?
Gruss Wiro
Antwort von PowerMac:
HDV has 4:2:0 ...... HDV has downscaled to SD 4:2:2 ......
Hello,
so slowly the chaos will be perfect.
Why has scaled 4:2:2 HDV to SD?
PAL operates both as synonymous with HDV DV with 4:2:0 - that's a norm.
What Have I misunderstood?
Gruss Wiro Yes. PAL is not bound s.4: 2-0. DV is 4:2:0, as well as digital television via satellite to Mpeg2, synonymous DVDs.
Digibeta, for example 4:2:2, also DVCPRO50. By down sampling the high resolution (+ also receives high color resolution) to just one PAL 4:2:2. Just because HDV compressed more efficiently.
Antwort von Wiro:
Hmmm - I'm sorry, I can not follow.
The questioner asked if he should choose HDV or DV. We therefore speak no more of DigiBeta of DVCPRO50, but of a consumer HDV camera or a consumer DV camera.
If he chooses HDV, then picks up at PAL 4:2:0.
If he chooses DV, then he picks up at PAL is also 4:2:0.
If he takes on HDV and then prints as a DV (widescreen), then he gets ebenflass 4:2:0.
Where is my (or your) fallacy?
Gruss Wiro
Antwort von Axel:
If he takes on HDV and then prints as a DV (widescreen), then he gets ebenflass 4:2:0.
Where is my (or your) fallacy? Logic would be if you do not then picks up as the downconverted DV-camera, via firewire, but via analog components in a PAL - the format, the same 4:2:2 sampled. Or have I mixed up now what?
Antwort von PowerMac:
Hmmm - I'm sorry, I can not follow.
The questioner asked if he should choose HDV or DV. We therefore speak no more of DigiBeta of DVCPRO50, but of a consumer HDV camera or a consumer DV camera.
If he chooses HDV, then picks up at PAL 4:2:0.
If he chooses DV, then he picks up at PAL is also 4:2:0.
If he takes on HDV and then prints as a DV (widescreen), then he gets ebenflass 4:2:0.
Where is my (or your) fallacy?
Gruss Wiro No! HDV to PAL to get 4:2:2.
Antwort von Blackeagle123:
Hey,
Could you give me time to explain very briefly what it has with the 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 about? :)
Danke schon mal in advance!
Regards
Constantin
Antwort von Axel:
... to explain what it has with the 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 about? 4:4:4: Each pixel contains the full color and brightness information.
4:2:2: Every second pixel entält "" ".
4:2:0: Every second pixel on every other
line "" ".
Is done because the human eye has not already processed the full color information and less information stored in this way: Smaller files / streams. A compression trick.
Disadvantages: For keying (ie blue screen) messy results, as less nuanced color correction. In 4:2:0, of course.
Antwort von Murdock9:
Sorry, ruessel!
So when I read that HDV is not really suitable?
What do you think of AVCHD?
Even shoot in the wind?
Antwort von Markus:
... could you explain to me briefly what it has with the 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 about? :) Very detailed (Constantine, you will) see it again:
What refers to the 4, what the 2 of what the 0 .. Hmmm - I'm sorry, I can not follow.
The questioner asked if he should choose HDV or DV. We therefore speak no more of DigiBeta of DVCPRO50, but of a consumer HDV camera or a consumer DV camera.
If he chooses HDV, then picks up at PAL 4:2:0.
If he chooses DV, then he picks up at PAL is also 4:2:0.
If he takes on HDV and then prints as a DV (widescreen), then he gets ebenflass 4:2:0. That's true already. We should not just compare apples with pears. The consumer remains with the 4:2:0-Farbsampling, no preference whether DV (PAL) or HDV (PAL).
Antwort von wolfgang:
I once in the back that is actually enhanced by the down conversion of HDV to DV, the Farbsampling - russell at that time had described as approximately 4:2:2 (if I'm right in the head), but I do not think next explained.
But honestly, I do not remember that this is where it would otherwise have been described. Somebody once for 4:2:2 material at runterkonvertierten one source, the views presented in detail why the runterkonvertierte material is 4:2:2?
Antwort von Markus:
... a source that explains in detail views, why runterkonvertierte material is 4:2:2? The logic behind an already lit, but will only carry if you do not DV codec (with 4:2:0-Farbsampling), but a lossless codec used in the scaling. Moreover, we must exploit the material either on MiniDV or DVD-Video, otherwise again picks up the worse Farbsampling. This leaves just file-and left professional video formats.
But for what the consumer is relevant?
Antwort von wolfgang:
Mark, please do not be angry - but synonymous light of this discussion, I'd have times like facts and figures. I lit the logic so synonymous first time a ... but still.
:)
Here was indeed synonymous say about that in the 4:2:2 DV-avi would be possible, which I once seriously doubt synonymous (or I've misunderstood this).
But perhaps there because no precise link?
Antwort von ruessel:
oje .... here is some confusion, that'll go to my blog with more light images. If I downscale an HDV film in post production for example in digital fusion to SD, I get shrink because of the higher color resolution ..... to show the precise one would have to involve a few pictures here. Then I can on the SD resolution with clean punches than just DV. If this film is then output from digital fusion, I get, depending on the selected codec 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 reserve.
A contemplative view with the river looks okay from a moving car, you can not take it, for example, because the motion resolution is lousy too. This is for me the crucial shortcoming. Film speed is more a roller coaster ride than an hour in front of the aquarium. Everything I've seen so far on HDV was sharp and optical content fad. Sounds quite often after that as if you have rotated with HDV .....
Antwort von Axel:
Sounds quite often after that as if you have rotated with HDV ..... Not at all.
I do not synonymous say that everyone does that with HDV films, bland movies. Allow me just to exaggerate a little, because of the clarity.
The relatively poorer representation of movement is a fact and has been often described in this forum. From this I would make me as the owner of HDV any more than what I am now out of my computer doing worse resolution.
Especially for amateurs - and I do not pretend that you are one, - seems to be Resolutionaber an end in itself. What I have seen so far, impressed me.
I did not say that I do not
want to film with HDV. Only that the workload and the costs are disproportionate to the value.
At some point, HD is so normal that to specify that no longer worthwhile. Then we get to the dutiful admiration of these works synonymous not just a sugar shock.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
I did not say that I do not want to film with HDV. Only that the workload and the costs are disproportionate to the value. For the value = higher Resolutionhabe already invested and I am glad finally to have left 720x576. HDV is for us old Super8 film-makers a real step forward in the video section to the present no alternative exists. It has taken since surpassed Introduction of the video about 20 years until the Resolutionvon Super8 with electronic equipment could be.
I am making now with joy reports in video and high-resolution picture and rejoice in the fact that I my 37 "HDTV verwennden of this can and above all I enjoy s.der image quality. PC and HDTV are networked together with me, so I am using the Media Center Today activate all possible media files via remote control can conveniently.
That's right, cheap is the transition had not been out of the misery but I am investing for a long time out. A higher net-work in post production of high-resolution videos I see for me personally, not at all. While the PC is working for me can be so engaged with something else, such as what time, the Wolfgang W. has gebastelt look on his blog ...
Antwort von ruessel:
The relatively poorer representation of movement is a fact and has been often described in this forum. Hmmmmm .... This attitude reminds me a little from the early 80s when it was the first CD's to buy ..... The CD would not sound so good, so cold ........
I do not know what you've seen to date and where to HDV, HDV, but once you have seen on a real monitor, can not live without HDV. Some people, however, have problems with playback of HDTV material and talk of "streaking" artifacts "" motion blur "and then next, with all due respect: What nonsense!
Sony's new generation of cameras in more than 20,000 euro area is set to almost the same HDV codec with a slightly higher rate. Did you have brought the Sonydas XDCAM HD for a couple of spinners on the market and this would be synonymous not really good for "moving film"? Believe me, HDV is now no worse than half the professional format.
I would buy at least not "just" DV camera over 400 euros more, it would be a pity for the used-DV cassette! Dear filmed on HDV and then if need be spent on "just" DV, or edit, so I have this valuable recording for later in any case in High Def.
Antwort von wolfgang:
Especially for amateurs - and I do not pretend that you are one, - seems to be Resolutionaber an end in itself. What I have seen so far, impressed me.
Axel, not be angry - but then you still have no rational HDV material, high quality and recorded on a good HD-Ready play device seen.
The Resolutionist definitely not an end in itself. The HDV-picture has a completely different quality. Stand in front of a mirror once in a well lit room, and watch your own image. And now imagine that you are on a good plasma or LCD is precisely this quality get on the screen. And now compare the times with an SD recording ...
I will not forget how I once got into a media market, and then a clever FX1 time a sales team directly via the LCD component s.einen ago had joined. And the FX1 was addressed to me as a visitor, and we saw his own image. And that was like a mirror image.
I did not say that I do not want to film with HDV. Only that the workload and the costs are disproportionate to the value.
However, this exact relationship is given more and more. At some point each of us is the home living room TV a - and the replacement investment will happen probably in an LCD or plasma, if s.hochwertigem video has interest. And this replacement investment will not be greater than has been 10 years ago paid for a high-end TV.
The current entry-HDV camcorders today are priced below what used to have the upper caressed DV devices.
The editing programs can do more and more - and it can slow the entry synonymous programs. I myself am still inclined to think that we should cut HDV2 even more with the semi-professional tools like Adobe Premiere Pro2, Edius and Vegas. But there is more and more synonymous with Pinnacle Studio, Ulead's VideoStudio 10 +, Magix VdL, Vegas Movie Studio, Adobe Premiere Elemtents with plugin, etc.
Well, the PC will need to be more efficient - but we're geöhnt anyway, that each year the performance of PCs (for the same amount Money) loosely doubled. The new Conroe 6600 is quite affordable, and delivers performance, the only way it wobbles. And someone who is active in Videschnittbereich must consider before always stop when the right time has come for a PC upgrade.
Synonymous s.konkreten examples where I see that through some clever optimization cut programs HDV2 average synonymous (on existing, older PCs around 3.2 Ghz P4) can improve on - for example in terms of real-time behavior.
In sum: clear things cost what - but you should not invest everything at once, but after making the stop and after. But the video footage in HDV have been times today too, and it may be cut tomorrow in HDV, is a big advantage.
Antwort von Axel:
A higher net-work in post production of high-resolution videos I see for me personally, not at all. Color correction? Compositing? I only ever sit in front of computers for nearly eight years that I've just bought me for video editing. Today, for example, editing a video with After Effects as fast as the hand of a photo in Photoshop. Of these, one could as an amateur 8 years ago only dreamed of. I fear that I would be thrown back with HDV to this level. But perhaps I am wrong?
I do not know what you've seen to date and where to HDV, HDV, but once you have seen on a real monitor, can not live without HDV. I hear all the time. When HD would be a drug. My colleague in our video club (as a camera really does well) with its FX-1 in the HDV mode mostly images that I would not use as a cutter, because they make no sense. HD causes you to stare. The problem of the cameraman, not the technology? You are right, and a higher synonymous Resolutionhätte I liked.
Dear filmed on HDV and then if need be spent on "just" DV, or edit, so I have this valuable recording for later in any case in High Def. I consider synonymous. Maybe I will switch to it, the pages ;-)
Antwort von wolfgang:
Color correction? Compositing? I only ever sit in front of computers for nearly eight years that I've just bought me for video editing. Today, for example, editing a video with After Effects as fast as the hand of a photo in Photoshop. Of these, one could as an amateur 8 years ago only dreamed of. I fear that I would be thrown back with HDV to this level. But perhaps I am wrong?
Well, we do not know what you've been s.PC equipment. Perhaps you tell us again?
It is clear, of course, one thing required for HDV editing performance, performance, and again performance. Especially for compositing applications this is certainly another important.
But I even go so far with a 3.2 Ghz P4, so that the matter has been going halfway. With Edius definitely a pure software solution, with the upcoming Vegas 7 definitely. While I devote more to the classical DV editing - ie cuts, dissolves, titles and standard color correction, maybe even have a PiP synonymous. Nevertheless, of course, at some point to purchase a machine more useful - for example based on the new Conroe 6600, the dream certainly brings values. Or wait until the end of the year, then probably come out of Intel announced Quadro-core processors.
With this technique, you will certainly not back to the state 8 years ago - we were actually there at 286ern or even at 386ern?
:)
Antwort von Axel:
I will not forget ... . And the FX1 was addressed to me as a visitor, and we saw his own image. And that was like a mirror image. Dear Wolfgang,
I think your really moving, persuasive, and the poison begins to act so synonymous with. At home, I can, moreover, already enjoying HD. I estimate the distribution of hardware, but currently to below 5%.
The test of a good film for me is that he was on a 4:3 TV or ten year old runtergerechnet as Webfilmchen still "pulls". Anyone who can tell of his shooting, the HD survived brainwashing.
Nevertheless, of course, at some point to purchase a machine more useful - for example based on the new Conroe 6600, the dream certainly brings values. Or wait until the end of the year, then probably come out of Intel announced Quadro-core processors. It's will not fail. I currently drive well with my Dual 1.8 G5 Powermac, but on the Quadro-core, I also sit. But whether with or without a Formula-1 Calculator is probably the whole workflow does not natively in HDV.
That's what I meant.
Antwort von wolfgang:
You think it will and yes you can reconsider your decision before None - Remove all synonymous if the "poison begins to take effect" slowly.
- Lol -
And of course, is the market penetration - you think of the vision devices? still relatively low. But already at the last Christmas the electronics industry reported a run on plasma and LCD displays, the repetition is probably in the upcoming Christmas.
Why is created in HDV movie will not move of its content from? I myself produce - in the context of my limited time - from a FX1 HDV footage (and PD1 as a second camera means) SD movies. You have here (even some of the advantages here is that Farbsampling as mentioned) - the material can be synonymous in SD on a plasma / LCD look quite good. It definitely looks better than my old material 3chip Panasonic NV-MX350.
What, though, I definitely adopted, the production of 4:3. There is nothing öderes than if you have a modern plasma or LCD on the left and right, the black bars. I suggest that synonymous regularly to my clients, to produce in 16:9 - and had not previously experienced, who would have said no to. Because the argument that this makes the production in true 16:9, is now recognized as a "future proof" and accepted. Even if one does not have SD-DVD player, and when one is synonymous to SD DVDs, the video distribution. For in HD-DVD-/Blue Ray players is indeed the market penetration yet been definitively 0%.
Thus, in reality synonymous HDV offers already an invaluable advantage - namely, the production in true 16:9 on SD DVDs. Who does worry about the old black bars on 4:3 devices - well, I stop periodically to ask if he will not buy anyway in the foreseeable future a new TV, which is then in 16:9. Ok, can perhaps take another - but the people prefer to take the black bars in Purchase, then put on an old format. If they indeed of her movies before well known.
To make the poison still next to work ...
:)))
