Frage von Snape:
Moin,
I know there are already several posts with this issue. But my specific needs I have never seen reasonable answers and the Manufacturer in fact, carry almost as quickly as new models on the market for printers. : (
So:
I'm looking for a camcorder in the price range of 300 to approximately 500.
I know good brands are Canon (I digicam and printer of, am excited of the two), Sony (co-worker once had) a DCR PC105 and Panasonic here (it is often recommended).
What I want to do with it:
- Filming sporting events (table tennis) in the Hall
- Riding lessons, lessons in riding and filming outside in the paddock
- Other shooting opportunity inside / outside
- Rework
What should have the device:
- Tripod possibility
- Possibly external connectivity Micro (when you needed the really)?
- Easy connectivity / compatibility s.ein synonymous Apple iBook G4 and iMac G5
- The longest possible battery life
- Low to medium weight
- What connections are still important?
The top priority for me, of course, the picture quality. Ordinary sound synonymous to come out, not necessarily tinny din.
Based on my recent research on the net, I had narrowed my choice to actually
SonyDCR HC 44 (419 EUR)
SonyDCR HC 46 (444 EUR)
Canon MVX 450 (419 EUR) - about this but I have yet found any Review
Panasonic NV-GS 37 (339 EUR)
Panasonic NV-GS 180 (490 EUR)
As I am beginner and would probably shoot synonymous only occasionally, I had really specific ausgeguggt NV-GS 37th But am now seriously confused because there appeared to prepare the sister model NV-GS 27 problem when shooting indoors.
If other models have more / better offer for the money, I am not averse, and of course, not limited to the osChoice.
Do I get for my purposes, even in the lower price synonymous (if 500 EUR are still around 1,000 DM and thus not necessarily be described as too little money) is good / usable? Or should I rather drauflegen 50-100 EUR to get really good? If so, what models would then be in the category of "no preference which, with which one can do no wrong"?
To get it conclusively to the point:
HELP! ;)
And thank you in advance. :)
Antwort von steveb:
I know there are already several posts with this issue. But my specific needs I have never seen reasonable answer not bad ... but I think that
exactly the questions that you have made here at times have been discussed repeatedly.
Search times with the term "buy recommendation" here in the forum ... and then determine if there are questions about .... herzlisch happy :-)
You look http://forum.slashcam.de/search.php
Antwort von Snape:
Hi Stefan,
what I find is evidence that the GS is 27 is not well suited for indoor shooting, and a frequent recommendation is 280th GS However, with the 650-700 EUR price well above my imagination.
Antwort von steveb:
these are precisely the lessons that should help you ... Most of the "seeker" who now have to make the experience that is available at 500 ¬ hardly something that will satisfy for a little more ambitious claims. I was unsuccessful this fallacy once synonymous ... Compare it with things like: A Plasma tvs under 1000 ¬ is usually nothing dolles .... a digital interpolation with 5 million pixels is now synonymous not usable ... and a camera should be halt synonymous certain properties, so the result is presentable ... we do not talk of holiday movies, or movies birthday ....
As a minimum it should be a GS 180 to be (better a 280er/300er). Below are the Kompomisse, no more compromises ... but poorly invested money.
Antwort von Snape:
> these are precisely the lessons that should help you ... Most of the "seeker" who now have to make the experience that is available at 500 ¬ hardly something that will satisfy for a little more ambitious claims.
OK, that's once a statement.
I'm just not sure if my claims already in the category of "ambition" are. For actually looks to me more after field-forest-meadow Shooting with not very high expectations that I have articulated above. There are supposed to be any recordings that I want to drive professionally, but more will be recorded for training purposes. And for occasional shots, I think 500 EUR synonymous been not a little money, if I'm honest, if I have it synonymous. The benefit here seems a little too low.
'I had this misconception synonymous unsuccessful times ... Compare it with things like: A Plasma tvs under 1000 ¬ is usually nothing dolles .... a digital interpolation with 5 million pixels is now synonymous ... and not usable a camera should stop synonymous possess certain characteristics, so the result is presentable ... we do not talk of holiday movies, or movies birthday ....
But? I really do not see any big difference to my expectations.
> As a minimum it should be a GS 180 to be (better a 280er/300er). Below are the Kompomisse, no more compromises ... but poorly invested money.
OK, I think about it for once and look at the differences between the 180 and 280/300, synonymous price.
Antwort von steveb:
But? I really do not see any big difference to my expectations. in your original thread was a bit of sports photography zb ... that would be (imho) has an ambitious theme ....
But you're right, which means for you "while you ".... Ambitious but None can help. But one thing experience has taught that one really wants more than we got!
Antwort von ToMMYFiLM:
Hello Snape!
Schau doch mal for used camcorders! There are great opportunities.
I'm still thinking, but maybe I'll sell my MiniDV Cam JVC GR-DV700 - along with all necessary accessories (tripod, bag, headphones and 3 Batteries). Thus, at 500 ¬ uros which will cost then.
But good deals are everywhere: If you're brave, you can synonymous with
Antwort von Snape:
Hello Tommy,
JVC ... still synonymous to this model - that tells me nothin 'at all. oO
Had I been prepared to compare the store, the GS 180 and 280 with one another - even though one of the two Hauptprotegees here has the cam and still not yet widely recommended. Even though I have not yet heard whether the Sony HC 44 and HC 46 (sooo much) will be worse and therefore I really want to exclude only reluctantly. Similarly, I can hardly believe that devices should be less than EUR 500 so bad that the money is practically thrown out.
It really is an epidemic. ^ ^ Yesterday I was so far to have set me on a GS 37, is now once again everything is different. ;-(
Mal ne night sleep over it and watch your account balance ...
Antwort von Ivy:
Hi Snape!
Now listen, let us not confuse yourself of like that. The problem now is time s.diesem forum that the root user simply shooting have made it more than just a hobby for themselves and thus are not really in a position to recommend to Trashcams. We would not use it themselves and are therefore far from they put someone to buy this to heart. The look you need us. ;-)
The budget is $ 500 down there - let's take the 180 out of Panasonic - the widespread opinion, simply no camera, which meets the minimum standard of those present in the forum. The cameras do not take much, I would rather the team s.deiner body Pansasonic / Sony / Canon serve as other brands. For example, I used to have a SonyDCR-HC40E, with which I have always been clearly quite good. Somewhere on the Internet I've seen them for 300 euro new. Perhaps that would indeed something for you. Look for.
Btw seems to me just the thought that this forum has given the camera industry probably several hundreds of thousands Euronen. After all, we do not have any convincing to buy a more expensive camera, which arrived with a thread, in which he said "budget price to 400 euros ...
Lg,
Ivy
Antwort von Markus:
Ivy, you did really well and made understandable to the point! Above all, a notion made me smile: Trashcam - slashCAM? - This may sound similar to the synonymous, but the difference is obvious. ;-)
- Filming sporting events (table tennis) in the Hall Due to recent events, I can say this a lot: The lighting in sports halls are usually pretty good. The headlights have a daylight-like color temperature, ie you get no problem with mixed lighting when daylight while falling through the skylights.
A Manual White Balance, the machine should have (the fixed value for daylight goes well). Also you should be able to accurately adjust the sharpness of the Hand and Resolutiondes displays should logically allow for a meaningful sharpness control.
A manual iris control to avoid over-exposed ( "yellow") faces, especially when the background is dark with the audience (varies according to Hall).
- Rework Here MiniDV is very clear on the first place, while others drive recording formats such as DVD or hard not even close to the winners' stand. - Your camcorder enumeration is to this question, however, except shuffle mode. ;-)
- Possibly external connectivity Micro (when you needed the really)? A built-in microphone can record sound only technical or at best an atmosphere. Often, however, this recording of enforcing so-called structure-borne sound (= equity and) noise control of the camcorder.
If there is more to be, then you need one or more additional microphones. Which should be synonymous, of course, then join s.den camcorder.
- Easy connectivity / compatibility s.ein synonymous Apple iBook G4 and iMac G5 This requirement is expected to meet every digital camcorder, the interface has a DV (=) Firewire.
- What connections are still important? For me would be important to the said DV port, s.Television an analog connection for fast image control and a microphone, a headphone jack and associated synonymous (the tone control is the use of an external microphone is very important!).
If you want to use together with the tripod at some point even a Hinterkamerabedienung, synonymous camcorder should have a corresponding duty jack. If this is the Sonyand Canon Lanc port, at Panasonic, I'm not sure if there is such a thing.
Antwort von Ivy:
Above all, a notion made me smile: Trashcam - slashCAM? - This may sound similar to the synonymous, but the difference is obvious. Dear Mark,
synonymous unfortunately this is not always true. ;-) Lg,
Ivy
Antwort von Markus:
Okay, the exception proves the rule!
The
contribution of Brandt
Antwort von tfp:
Noch ne interesting exception:
http://forum.slashcam.de/king-kong-vt31158.html?highlight=king+kong
And Snape let you, just like Ivy discourage it or simply do not anticipate you into taking costly but ne Cam, buy yourself a good ne is in your budget and have fun so, the quality difference you will notice the televisions come not as good as if you not particularly strong so that you are preoccupied.
And yes gehts Dir vileicht then like me and it makes you a great fun, you stay here you are doing here a little bit clever, always something to learn and you can spend irgentwann a more expensive model, which you may not be "Schähmen" need.
And most important during the shooting and cutting is not the quality of the Camera special creativity of the maker (you can from the Misslungensten rausholen something, so everyone thinks it was intended)
Antwort von Snape:
Hi Ivy,
> Hi Snape!
'Well listen, let us not confuse yourself of like that. The problem now is time s.diesem forum that the root user simply shooting have made it more than just a hobby for themselves and thus are not really in a position to recommend to Trashcams.
> The budget is $ 500 down there - let's take the 180 out of Panasonic - the widespread opinion, simply no camera, which meets the minimum standard of those present in the forum. The cameras do not take much, I would rather the team s.deiner body Pansasonic / Sony / Canon serve as other brands. For example, I used to have a SonyDCR-HC40E, with which I have always been clearly quite good. Somewhere on the Internet I've seen them for 300 euro new. Perhaps that would indeed something for you. Look for.
Have I not found. But as I said, is almost as bad as in printers, where almost every week (or at least a new model comes out with a new name).
Also I am not firm in terms of the successor models. Is this the HC42, HC44 (419 EUR), HC46 (444 EUR)? In addition, there is already here and there before me, that are removed during subsequent models, certain features / Connections.
Otherwise do I do with a purchase for less than 500 EUR prinzipell nothing wrong, because then there is a quasi-standard? No matter whether I take the NV-GS 37 or the Canon or osSony? Or are the $ 100 more for the HC46 to the Panasonic synonymous with respect to its money-value equipment and (Picture-/Sound-) quality? I accept synonymous that this Sonynicht does a lot with the GS180 and both are on a level?
> Lg,
> Ivy
Danke schon mal for the "all clear". :)
Antwort von Snape:
And Snape let you, just like Ivy discourage it or simply do not anticipate you into taking costly but ne Cam, buy yourself a good ne is in your budget and have fun so, the quality difference you will notice the televisions come not as good as if you not particularly strong so that you are preoccupied.
So should it be.
And yes gehts Dir vileicht then like me and it makes you a great fun, you stay here you are doing here a little bit clever, always something to learn and you can spend irgentwann a more expensive model, which you may not be "Schähmen" need.
That was my idea. Only something favorable for the initial purchase, but this already provides usable. Opportunity to spend films 650-700 were grinding a little steep to me a lot. When I should find more use for it and should get my unfulfilled ambition, I can still get me a good camcorder.
And most important during the shooting and cutting is not the quality of the Camera special creativity of the maker (you can from the Misslungensten rausholen something, so everyone thinks it was intended) Well, I'm not blessed with a creative mind ... :-|
The primary purpose is to once be the recording to play table tennis, to show the boys (and girls) what they really do not think and what they do. It has (not just the TT often) that is a false picture of what is technically lying down. Almost always follows the realization that "Oh, so I hit?" ;-) Correct, practice, re-filming to make progress (or standstill recognize), etc. These occasional shots of games in championships, tournaments, etc.
The same will happen with riding lessons. Example, someone who thinks they sit up straight, is often taught by the "video evidence" of a better one. ;-) And so on.
I still think that will be acquired for these purposes must not camcorder for 650 EUR, but 500 should be more than sufficient. Or?
Antwort von Snape:
- Filming sporting events (table tennis) in the Hall
Due to recent events, I can say this a lot: The lighting in sports halls are usually pretty good. The headlights have a daylight-like color temperature, ie you get no problem with mixed lighting when daylight while falling through the skylights.
Lights are normally very rare in sports halls to be found. Almost everywhere there is illumination by fluorescent lights s.der ceiling, coupled with windows, through the proper light shines in the summer. Often, too much, so that the reflections on the tables will be very detrimental. In principle, should be bright enough, in fact, every hall, because AFAIK, there are even guidelines must be brightly lit as the play area.
A Manual White Balance, the machine should have (the fixed value for daylight goes well). Also you should be able to accurately adjust the sharpness of the Hand and Resolutiondes displays should logically allow for a meaningful sharpness control.
* Quotations *
A manual iris control to avoid over-exposed ( "yellow") faces, especially when the background is dark with the audience (varies according to Hall).
* Quotations *
- Possibly external connectivity Micro (when you needed the really)?
A built-in microphone can record sound only technical or at best an atmosphere. Often, however, this recording of enforcing so-called structure-borne sound (= equity and) noise control of the camcorder.
If there is more to be, then you need one or more additional microphones. Which should be synonymous, of course, then join s.den camcorder.
I do not know if that (for my purposes so) is important. But be prudent to be safe so far.
- Easy connectivity / compatibility s.ein synonymous Apple iBook G4 and iMac G5
This requirement is expected to meet every digital camcorder, the interface has a DV (=) Firewire.
* Quotations *
- What connections are still important?
For me would be important to the said DV port, s.Television an analog connection for fast image control and a microphone, a headphone jack and associated synonymous (the tone control is the use of an external microphone is very important!).
* Quotations *
If you want to use together with the tripod at some point even a Hinterkamerabedienung, synonymous camcorder should have a corresponding duty jack. If this is the Sonyand Canon Lanc port, at Panasonic, I'm not sure if there is such a thing. * Quotations *
Thanks for the many small, but certainly not unimportant information!
Antwort von steveb:
rather snape,
that with the "what camera is sufficient for my purpose and my budget" is already an important aspect. probably pertinent for the subsequent Purchase synonymous. The largest part of the forum members are
not professionals and they somehow use their equipment like you'll do it. However, I would point you again to the fact that it (with all the "electric things" are) standards that we should not go. And (the experience not only mine, but synonymous) newer members has shown that it was often better to meet the "standards". Therefore, my recommendation .... busy yourself with the different models, they Try to remember from (separate tape) and then decide ... but I'm sure you'll find the right .... :-)
Antwort von Ivy:
Have I not found. But as I said, is almost as bad as in printers, where almost every week (or at least a new model comes out with a new name). Well, I have just searched again, and am also now synonymous unsuccessful. I mean, it was an ebay offer was by NOW, but I'm no longer synonymous foolproof. The cam was synonymous meant more as an example of good cams in Lowprice segment.
Otherwise do I do with a purchase for less than 500 EUR prinzipell nothing wrong, because then there is a quasi-standard? No matter whether I take the NV-GS 37 or the Canon or osSony? Or are the $ 100 more for the HC46 to the Panasonic synonymous with respect to its money-value equipment and (Picture-/Sound-) quality? I accept synonymous that this Sonynicht does a lot with the GS180 and both are on a level? So basically you're right. The cameras take as I have said little. But they are already different. Sun has Sonysynonymous in lowpricesegment in Nightshot very far (ahead, while Canon is characterized by an acceptable range images in lowlight and Panasonic with simple handling (no touch screen, fortunately) and slightly better image quality than less noise in lowlight area) excels . That is your personal taste. Since you will be filmed in the halls at night or insufficiently hardly light, I would suggest you a Panasonic, if you have a seemingly sympathetic you'll find in the price range of your choice. The NV-37 GS, I do not know personally, for me, however, the GS180 is the absolute favorite in Lowprice segment, because they provide the price-/Leistungsverhältnis like the more expensive and better successor NV-GS280/300 simply unbeatable picture quality.
Ultimately, however, you just have to go to the store and play around to comment on the choice Cams standing in his hand to film a bit, zoom in a bit, a little bit with. And then pick the one you feel s.besten appear. You see, it is hard to flat-rate compensation in the segment. Everyone here can tell you probably enumerate the benefits of XM2 to an NV-GS500 and runterbeten, but the cheaper cams we are stumped as I have said many times.
Lg,
Ivy
Antwort von Snape:
Hi Stefan,
rather snape,
that with the "what camera is sufficient for my purpose and my budget" is already an important aspect. probably pertinent for the subsequent Purchase synonymous. The largest part of the forum members are not professionals and they somehow use their equipment like you'll do it.
I think that most people here trained, different, more professional, more so than I would handle it.
Therefore, my recommendation .... busy yourself with the different models, they Try to remember from (separate tape) and then decide ... but I'm sure you'll find the right .... :-) I think synonymous, and that it will probably amount. Which reminds me is not a separate tape will help a lot - where should I play it?
I also want to look up, in fact, not different stores, try all the interesting camcorder watch to decide at home, and then order on the Internet. I do not feel as particularly fair to the shops. On the other hand the prices were often synonymous MUs not fair. ;) Problem and - for me - too expensive, it is of course if it is not my favorite in a shop there and I would look for half the Ruhr for it. I would obviously prefer a statement like "Whether you ne SonyHC44, 46, Canon MVX ... or Panasonic GS ... buy - so you can not go wrong, it all depends on the equipment. :-)
Antwort von Ivy:
I would obviously prefer a statement like "Whether you ne SonyHC44, 46, Canon MVX ... or Panasonic GS ... buy - so you can not go wrong, it all depends on the equipment. Whether you yourself a Sony, a Canon or Panasonic are buying in your price range - so you can do no wrong, there is (as above) discussed in full detail only a matter of how you put your accents (picture quality, Nightshot, lowlight area , handling) and what you s.besten in the hand.
Lg,
Ivy
Antwort von Snape:
Hello Ivy / all others
well, then I will go soon on the way to the souvenirs shops. If I choose headphones, and external microphone-Connections as a KO criterion reduces my list pretty neat. ^ ^ And I'm curious if the price meet me this time, because I do not just expect internet rates.
I thank you once and you keep up to date, if I've made my choice.
Antwort von Jan:
Hello,
yes, the famous companies take in the whole not too much, but an amateur synonymous sees the GS 180 just a better sharpness, richer colors leuchtent with 3 CCD technology brings when He Geshe competitors.
If yes Headphones + Micro connector to 500 ¬ Current Camera? Da gibts really only GS 180, SonyHC have 44 / 46, Canon MV 950 no Micro / headphone port, the ancient 2005ern MV 330 as the first had a micro / but no Kophhöreranschluss, Sonyab HC 39 / 42 Micro (Of course Sony only) if we remain among the top 3 companies.
Each cam has some weaknesses eg synonymous Panasonic GS 180 - a little round, included only 45 minutes Battery and like all consumer Pana's no W / Sepia Recording directly to / has any Canon / Sony) - Who's needs and not MPOEG Movies Recording on memory cards.
A particularly eg Canon MV 900 / 950 has it for many a user undultbare drive noise and at 900 / 950 a below average wide Angleim 4 / 3 mode, whereas Pana with GS has 27 / 37 gigantic 51 °.
In Sonyist it easy - they have several errors, such as eg S-Video cable only as optional accessories VMC 15 FS (25 ¬), many do not have Cam's Micro / headphone jack, the 2006 da gibts nur Hc 94/96 with micro connector.
In contrast, for filmmakers wishing to film in motion at night, and want to make a light, its only useful Nightshot the night program because Pana / Canon / JVC jerky.
Lg
January
Antwort von mkrawietz:
well, at a consumer-infrared cam as well as the visual light of the others is cams. And regulate provides closure to less than 1 / 50 like infrared as synonymous. So, even if lights are eingabaute the least important criterion, the sales so far there is.
Antwort von Acer:
had not been notified ...
Antwort von Jan:
For me it is not important, but Sony cameras pan the Infarotfilter from what comes to really improve, but will eventually synonymous times the Nightshot in low light precisely to test.
The Normalo should of course take a video light - what many do not want. Pana / JVC / Canon night program auto slow shutter speed when moving and rubbish.
For me, Super Nightshot synonymous an advertising slogan ala "Now I'm filming with total night without light"
LG
January
Antwort von Snape:
Moin,
so, my decision has been made: I bought a Pansonic NV-GS 180th If it does not appeal to me, I can return it within 14 days.
Why I chose for this device:
- 3 CCD
- Connections ext. Micro and Headphones
I have recorded yesterday a typical table tennis championship game and I like the picture-and sound quality. Other recordings I have not yet made, but the first impression is first of all good. The interaction with the iMac seems to be easy. After the launch of iMovie, I closed the Panasonic s.den Firewire port s.and was immediately in the main window of iMovie, the current picture of your camcorder, without me having yet another handle, etc. had to run. Also, the dubbing was done in iMovie simplicity by rewinding the tape, switch to playback mode and click on "Import" in iMovie. The playback and importing car started.
Only drawback I find that there is no Firewire cable included and the battery is quite weak dimensions (recording time approx 30-45min), so that is a larger battery requirement.
Previous record: However good convince Purchase, Picture, Sound and handling.
Antwort von Jan:
Yes was good to hear just why Panasonic Battery CGA DU 6 mitliefert, and to its predecessor, yet donated CGA DU 12, which is probably on the current
Rigor due.
Nagut FW cable is never included as synonymous, unless a company makes a set price, well at 4, 6 and 9 pin synonymous not easy for the company to what the customer needs.
LG
January
Antwort von Snape:
So,
Yesterday I filmed a rather modest illumination clubhouse with. The result is as modest, in fact, that is seen in any case, uncertainty or noise in the Pana NV-GS-180. The recordings are out of order.
Now my question: Returns the GS-280 synonymous in not so well-lit rooms a good picture or it rushes synonymous? Then I can save myself the extra cost to carry, otherwise I will consider, in fact, to return the 180s and 280s instead.
Antwort von Ivy:
Hi!
So I can tell you that the lowlight strength of the NV-GS280 is anything but
exhilarating. In fact, the picture begins with although weak, but still enough to swim normally Lighting and rustle. The real lowlight then, the camera has no chance. That is, in my view the only real, but very very synonymous pronounced shortcoming of the camera.
Certainly, the lowlight efficiency is slightly better than the 280s, the 180s will, but if you want to achieve good results in the sector, then the 180s is not synonymous make you happy.
The 280s has yet to the 0-Lux-feature, I do not like the white is in the 180s, and it is surprisingly strong in my opinion. I think Jan had the synonymous written somewhere once that the 0-lux features come partly s.den Nightshot. In this case: Yes.
So my advice: When should be the only reason to pay the higher price of the 280s to a possibly better lowlight efficiency: they do not purchase!
Lg,
Ivy
Antwort von Jan:
Well, both have 0 lux version, which is turned over to the GS 180 / 280/300/500 of the LCD, then it is bright white, then filmed through viewfinder. The problem is o nly which made for very weak light is such a long shutter speed that is strong but jerky, in a normal night mode but it is similar, only one has no "light".
But to use the LCD as the lamp is already ne good invention of the Panasonic foxes. But you are right if it's already very schlummrig hardly what one sees in the GS 280, the function is 0 lux, the picture but, surprisingly quite bright, but who had the luck with a broadcast camera ala JVC GY DV 5000 to film is just a little smile, as it can with a massive database to be strengthened and synonymous with movement is still seen in very bad light what to do.
LG
January
Antwort von schumi65:
Hello Snape;
[list] Only drawback I find that there is no Firewire cable included and the battery is quite weak dimensions (recording time approx 30-45min), so that is a larger battery requirement.
[/ list: u: 1866c5973d]
No real problem, right? Synonymous, the GS180 and I had my Firewire and Batteries concerned over the Internet. The Batteries (2 pieces, with DU21 mAh) 2500 have cost me including shipping Euronen 23, the "fire cable" around 10 euros (excluding gold times :-))
Otherwise, a horny camcorder for the money (I have forked out 454 Euronen). Let's see, where to go to the claims in 2 years ...
... but this is not the moment for debate. Enjoy your Panasonic.
Antwort von Snape:
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