Frage von TechPro:
Hello together, after more and more customers and transmitter of us but no HD 50i and 25p p 23.98 (24p) HD would like to have, before I had actually quite normal with my EX in HQ 1080/25p to rotate and still clean deliver material - at least that was the idea. Immediately anticipated, it must be HD, the material has under 1920 lines will not be accepted.
So, I have my EX1 is the problem that I am in the Progressive mode (whether for example, or 1080/25p HQ 1080/23, 98 HQ) at fast pans, trips or simply synonymous to a rapid change of image content a strong Shutter ( Jerkiness) do. This happens, unfortunately, synonymous with medium fast movements with the camera, in the normal rotation inevitable. I can do 'bucking' minimally by spin Shutters About + strong illumination of the object image reduced, but not get away. If I very slowly swing / drive or just a small part of the image moves, there is no bucking before. At HQ 1080/50i or 720/50p HQ synonymous this problem is generally not available. The EX1 has the latest software and of course I have just reset and tried several other configurations - everything but without success. In an emergency, I would then turn 50i material, in the post-production and simply convert 25p to spend. To do it naturally but s.Ende whether it is comparable with real 25p?
I hope someone here has a tip to the other could help me, thank you ever!
Antwort von Axel:
I can do 'bucking' minimally by spin Shutters About + strong illumination of the object image reduced, but not get away. If I very slowly swing / drive or just a small part of the image moves, there is no bucking before. Classical description of an automatic shutter or too short. With more light, the camera, it's left to own devices, choose a shorter Shutterzeit. The following is not a rule of thumb, but the iron 25p-law:
For normal shots at shutter
fix 1/50tel. Only in very exceptional cases, when a panoramic swivel the camera motion is important and thus no motivation to be moved, the shutter to be 1/25tel (otherwise smear their contours a little bit).
Try it out. No bucking, and quality in each case deinterlacetem "i" superior material.
Antwort von TechPro:
Good idea but I had already tried synonymous. Even with a fixed 100 / 1 shutter is still the same problem. It remains only quiet when I really really slow pan. When I look at the camera with 25p / 23.98 p EB and shoulder turn is the picture up to 60% useless. When can I 1080/50i, visual terms, full use?
Antwort von strike300xxx:
I think rather what you describe is typical of the Effect of 25p.
That is absolutely normal that in the Picture jerky pans for 25p.
25p brings halt synonymous disadvantages. This is with the shutter erstmal little to do.
For EB take anyway always classic 50i. This is synonymous of all television stations will accept and broadcast.
If you need a progressive, you can shoot in 50i and 1080 in the post to let 50p.
I guarantee you a smooth picture.
best greetings
Antwort von TechPro:
Thanks Strike, the only problem is that I often need a style synonymous with what customers both in 24p HD HQ for cinema advertising and Blu-ray is taken as synonymous as an online clip. This eliminates 50i in the EX again or is there an option so synonymous?
I do now just wild & dirty a short trip, put this on the server and you post the link here so that you an impression bekmmt what I mean.
Antwort von Axel:
For normal shots at shutter fix 1/50tel. Only in very exceptional cases, when a panoramic swivel the camera motion is important and thus no motivation to be moved, the shutter at 1 / 25 will tel ... Good idea but I had already tried synonymous. Even with a fixed 100 / 1 shutter is still the same problem. Have you
not tried! 25p, 50i through from the deinterlacer is generated, has simply where natural motion blur would be an interlace artifacts with interspersed Wischiwaschi. Otherwise, there is synonymous optimal swing speeds. A bad swing speed jerky in untreated 50i is not visible, the swing is still shit then.
Antwort von wontuwontu:
I think rather what you describe is typical of the Effect of 25p.
That is absolutely normal that in the Picture jerky pans for 25p.
25p brings halt synonymous disadvantages. This is with the shutter erstmal little to do. That's right, with 25p slow pans are possible and you should always make sure that the moving objects are not too close s.der Camera are. Set the shutter to 180 °, which is the normal exposure time for the full record. If you have the opportunity, turning rather to 50p, then synonymous if you only have 720 lines.
Greeting
Antwort von TechPro:
That is probably more of a problem in this EX extreme. That which you know I am talking of course, but what the EX is actually fabricates extremely opposed. I have only as the Comparison HDW-790p which is of course a totally different camera but at 25p I just do not have this problem - at least not during normal working without a camera movements Wilde. Link comes to the first EX material ...
Antwort von TechPro:
So with an X-arbitrary FTP program under ftp.biberfilm.de with the username 'web10f1' and password 'server' and the log file shutter_prob_ex3.mpg download. Do ask your own Picture.
PS: for example, ZDF wants some programs only 25p.
Antwort von TechPro:
...
Antwort von RickyMartini:
The bucking is very clearly visible and leaves anything but a pleasant impression Picture.
Could you go to the Comparison with the same swing out HQ 720/50p and upload the clip?
Antwort von TechPro:
Thank you Ricki, just as I feel it is synonymous. The trip is of course now on the fast and made neither light nor speed are perfect but should be a Picture synonymous in these circumstances do not arise. Incidentally Shutter was at 180 degrees - only the Aperture, I had to automatic (time technically).
Antwort von TechPro:
The bucking is very clearly visible and leaves anything but a pleasant impression Picture.
Could you go to the Comparison with the same swing out HQ 720/50p and upload the clip? Sure, I build it again briefly and leaving the same
in 720/50p HQ - daurt but a small moment.
Antwort von TechPro:
720/50p The HQ version is now available online and is well below shutter_prob_ex2.mpg to find. My opinion, better but still too much 'vershuttert' in Comparison to 50i HQ.
Antwort von RickyMartini:
Look at the times Crank Trailer (WMV, 29.97 fps) for:
http://streamingmovies.ign.com/movies/article/945/945250/crank2_nr1_trlr1_011509_wmvhd.wmv
It was partly with the HF10 recorded. Everything was processed cinema (24p) and looks simply gorgeous, very unusual if synonymous.
From shutter is not because the track to see, because IMO to 29.97 and then half were doubled. At 24p it probably would have problems with the deinterlacing, where the HF10.
Antwort von TechPro:
Since the HV10 in 60i records so I think you should just generally HQ 1080/50i record and then, depending on the needs in 25p or 24p in the post conversions, Ricky?
Antwort von RickyMartini:
Since the HV10 in 60i records so I think you should just generally HQ 1080/50i record and then, depending on the needs in 25p or 24p in the post conversions, Ricky? The times you could be tested.
25p seems at least for the EX3 not sendetauglich to be.
Antwort von TechPro:
Well, I've finally done something for ZDF in 1920/25p and it's already done. If you have enough distance to the object has the Picture is very good but my aim is to find a format that I am primarily responsible for child (24p), Blu-Ray (24p), transmitter (25p) and of course, especially one with whom I work reliably and can not then again in the post such images in front of me think - in the Viewfinder seen bucking just not!
When the 50i, I have no problems, but if true then the material is still just as good if I of 50i in 25/24p walk or loses will be a lot?
Antwort von TechPro:
Now I have just tried again with a reasonable p 23.98 CloseUp swing to get out but no chance. A quick little HD 50MB file to be found among well-known FTP Access 23.98 p_ex3_schwenk. Angle was again 180 ° Camera was previously state back to the factory set. I have the same swing again slowly made synonymous, but with little to no difference. Before someone says something, all photographs are only for testing - no more so I just do not come with clean through;)
Antwort von RickyMartini:
Halber test, I have a 1080i video deinterlaced times (1st half double) and after HD MPEG2 progressive output.
The Picture ansich impression is not bad, because the Shuttereffekt not see is, unfortunately, is the vertical Resolutionhalbiert and the Alias | Wavefront Mayaing Effect comes into effect.
A HQ deinterlacer with antialiasing could certainly solve the problem, but is so far known to me None of the interview.
Antwort von TechPro:
Thank you for your troubles, Ricky, the same result I get synonymous.
But I do still primarily for movies and Blu-Ray turn, are compulsively 24p HD (Both are working with fixed 24p) - in this sense that I really no alternative and I have with the HQ 23.98 p (NTSC) of the EX3 come clear and clean shots.
Only with the attitude to the situation - but somehow still had advantages beta;)
Antwort von MacPro:
In the view of your clips, I can only tell you that it is the normal side effect is that a temporal sub-sampling nunmal brings with it. Say: This is perfectly normal 25p Geruckel.
The 50p clip is also synonymous in 25p-rotated logical that it synonymous jerky. And your observation that it is with some settings or resolutions, more or less jerky comes vermutl therefore, that there is absolutely less shuttert, the higher the uncertainty is. That's why more than jerky 1080p25 and 720p25 more than a (bad) deinterlaced 1080i (the vertical resolution loss by the simple removal of a half conceals the Filmjudder something here.)
One can simply not be said often enough: Who needs to 25p turns synonymous of the disadvantages of this "looks" in mind and according to film (avoid pans, small depth of focus, etc.). A few movies in this analysis helps tremendously ever since.
Antwort von TechPro:
The shutter problem is solved. It was not s.irgendwelchen settings but simply and easily, the camera is defective! I have another EX1 and used it in correctly. I have but some how guessed that a 8000 ¬ Camera not really be so bad in comparison to the great;)
I have again just a few brief impressions captured in my office and the only thing that still bothers me now is that it does something to grainy ... please have a look:
http://www.biberfilm.de/server/23,98_ex_impressionen.mpg right click 'save as'
and here are a few pictures for Comparison of reinforcement - Noise
http://www.biberfilm.de/server/23,98_ex_gain.mpg right click 'save as'
