Frage von PowerMac:
I would like to participate as an author. Stand behind PETA. Money Will not only help the world better.
Antwort von Pianist:
Desirable for applicants is of course a positive attitude to the subject animal rights and vegetarianism. At railway stations and in pedestrian zones, I will often times of young people in green, red or blue jackets addressed. If ask me whether I like animals, then I always reply: "Yeah, s.besten well done and with a delicious sauce." I go to these various "animal rights" is now on the animal biscuit. Nobody knows whether the animal is really in use or whether it is "pushers towers" act, which is especially important to any subscriptions or memberships for sale. Who could at first glance even between legitimate and dubious organizations differ?
People are in any case explicitly all-Eaters "and require, among other things synonymous meat as food. These penetrance, with some of the people who defend animal rights and the needs of the human mind is really on my nerves. We must ensure animals do not suffer unnecessarily, but some animals are times to eat there and who wants a balanced diet, will not turn over. Compensate can not in any case.
So: If you against fur coats and against whaling, which is perfectly okay. But let me my steak and my Sunday roast.
Matthias
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) People are in any case explicitly all-Eaters "and require, among other things synonymous meat as food. (...) You forget that the reason a man synonymous beings. It is the superiority of the shoots is constitutive for the company formation. Or fuck you on the street every woman that you like? Craps you in the subway, if it expresses? Vegetarians and represent with ethical and philosophical arguments on their shoots. I always remember the s.Dönerladen. It smells good for meat, but I resist the. For me, a further emancipation from my shoots.
The man-eater can be everything, but it is not. On the other hand, it is rational beings, but may act differently synonymous.
Antwort von Tinobee:
A doner kebab to resist is not difficult, although next s.im Newspaper Box drüber reported Tasty as it is currently again.
Otherwise, it is so, what will be bred to be eaten
Antwort von PowerMac:
This leads to cannibalism yes!
Antwort von Tinobee:
What regst you as a filmmaker ever.
One half Rotates for animal rights, the other makes Fleischer advertising.
Antwort von Flashlight:
Oops,
exactly my topic ... ;-)
So interest s.dieser I would basically work. What the topic is concerned - no problem: I'm an active animal ethicist and vegetarians anyway. Work itself s.diversen ideas, the topic of animal rights in shorts implement.
Among the few well-founded statements (or better say prejudices) here, I can only say that mankind can not mistake that supports their use.
The man was never an omnivore or a herbivore - biologically seen, he was a Frugivore (fruit eaters), which confirms synonymous with 98.7% of the conformity of our closest relatives: the primates. And it does not synonymous, that we descended from monkeys, that only primates and Homo sapiens a common ancestors.
From a moral and ethical point of view: When animals are there to eat, could synonymous differently colored fellow slave labor to be used (we had this dark chapter behind us long ago?), Children as abuse victims, who can be strong oppress the weak . It is the same pattern, as we now proceed with animals - we have them because we have a right to take an advantage we give our species.
And there is a fundamental difference between animal welfare and animal rights. The latter is opposed to any exploitation of non-animal - the animal would just like the conscience of man clean. Some animals benefit, other than farm land on our plate. What makes the difference? Here we save dogs and cats from animal shelters to the Spanish, in China they are brutalized animals (fur farms, gourmet restaurants).
Only someone who has no idea that we we are today with animals, may allow such nonsense sentences of themselves. Morally correct, however what else! And there is neither excuses nor justifications (the stand)!
"You've just eaten lunch, and how carefully synonymous always the slaughterhouse in a tactful distance of many kilometers, or some may be hidden: they
are complicit." Emerson, Ralph Waldo (1803-1882) - American writer and politician
So I can not work in Berlin with serve, but I would like to actively participate in any form.
Many greetings of Flash.
Antwort von Flashlight:
A doner kebab to resist is not difficult, although next s.im Newspaper Box drüber reported Tasty as it is currently again.
Otherwise, it is so, what will be bred to be eaten Accordingly synonymous cats, dogs, horses, guinea pigs ...
and we must do nothing at all - perhaps to die. Due to increased meat benefit most synonymous sooner than later (see nutrition studies at the DKFZ Heidelberg, University of Giessen, University of Berlin)
Antwort von WeiZen:
Moin,
wenns tastes? Why not? Just because it is cute?
From meat-eaters to the slave-owners, a little far-fetched, but some are already fit. And do not come with any Uniuntersuchungen. There is for each study against the study, recently completed, which is of no use if you drink two liters of water.
Who does not wish to eat animal products, please very much, he has my blessing.
But I get more on the fried version with delicious sauce.
Before your s.das absolute dagen goes, adjusted the evil in the small growths, such as support of animal shelters, where the exposed animals in the land animal friends, and large dogs in small apartments the city for hours on Mr. Chen or mistress wait, etc. Since there are enough needs and your since until the end of busy life.
Otherwise, there are certainly synonymous a study that determines the film equipment in part from animal substances, then you will have your film project unfortunately adjust if you're vegan.
Antwort von Tinobee:
For the new IPTV Magazine animal rights organization PETA Deutschland eV, we are looking ... We are unfortunately far too geographically far away of you, otherwise it would be interesting. Yet here from a lot of luck, if it is synonymous here, unfortunately, "anonymous" must be.
Let you sick of the types such as PM., W., etc. not be discouraged. Addiction prefer in another forum in which not everything and every slating, made low, despicable is done.
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) Let you sick of the types such as PM., W., etc. not be discouraged. Addiction prefer in another forum in which not everything and every slating, made low, despicable is done. Did you read the posts here or were you s.Tauchen in the loo? Then you knew that I have nothing here slating, established or made scornful made. I share the views of PETA and asked for my cooperation. Next time you read correctly before you shit claim.
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) Just because it is cute? (...) I would never with pity for the small, sweet and cute animals argue. This is extremely naive and undurchdacht. Quite hypocritical, I think, for example, girls who are not lambs and rabbits eat, because the knuffig and so sweet. Large cows and pigs eat them but. This is probably due to the fact that large animals supposedly do not seem so cute. But what's the use of the animal? What good is it when some people Viecher for some sweet and others are not? What can the cow, that little girl for less sweet than a lamb with? That is stupid of people from despotism. Some stupid child schema evokes pity for some Viecher and some not. I deny myself this arbitrariness. Every animal is equal. (This I assume of human rights.)
Just to eat meat is not consistent. I would eat meat if I even bring up the animal and then kill could. I can not. I prefer to die than to kill. So consequently I do not eat meat. Bothers me that people in our modern society the responsibility of the killing process. Precisely because we eat so much meat. We are aware of life and the animals are no longer conscious. Debates about vegetarianism and animal suffering are abstract words, which we have no emotional and more rational terms. Finally, we do not kill themselves, but the meat industry. We paid less the value of the meat itself, rather than passing on the abstract s.Verantwortung and compassion s.den slaughterman and breeders. I like the industrial aspect does not: you go to the supermarket and buy an industrial product, a piece of dead animal, do not refer to. I think this is inconsistent and irresponsible. May only eat meat, which itself can kill.
Apart from this it is obviously perverse, animals only for the purpose of winding dead animals. Thus one loses the respect for life. This is synonymous to self-determination of the animal. Ideally, animals should be free to live in nature.
And of course I have compassion for animals synonymous, the agonies and have hate factory farming. Because I suffer and I can empathize. But the compassion argument I find weak. Therefore, I always philosophical reasons.
Antwort von Tinobee:
Next time you read correctly before you shit claim. And once you learn respect for your fellow man, and finally listen to your gut when dealing sociopaths definable deficits via Fäkalsprache s.anderen omit, you rascal immature. Under the guise "I offend because I want to help" makes it seem so far so good post. Your constant Verbalkotze you should warped times Balg you trust an adult's face to say. I would have really surprised if you are not properly in the shortest possible time due to the war would face.
Perhaps you would even help?
Antwort von WeiZen:
Moin,
I deny myself the wording sick!
Let you sick of the types such as PM., W., etc. not be discouraged. Contrary minded, against this formulation I would have nothing. I am synonymous wrong views, so I can live synonymous.
I expect give an Endschuldigung.
Antwort von PowerMac:
Next time you read correctly before you shit claim.
And once you learn respect for your fellow man, and finally listen to your gut when dealing sociopaths definable deficits via Fäkalsprache s.anderen omit, you rascal immature. Under the guise "I offend because I want to help" makes it seem so far so good post. Your constant Verbalkotze you should warped times Balg you trust an adult's face to say. I would have really surprised if you are not properly in the shortest possible time due to the war would face.
Perhaps you would even help? Whipping I would certainly help quite splendid.
Incidentally, I have such special guests as you loved. In your post are much more offensive than in my elements. You want me Fäkalsprache chalk, because I "shit" say? Read your own contribution, in particular, unsubstantiated and insulting unobjective only defying.
Antwort von PowerMac:
Moin,
I deny myself the wording sick!
Let you sick of the types such as PM., W., etc. not be discouraged.
Contrary minded, against this formulation I would have nothing. I am synonymous wrong views, so I can live synonymous.
I expect give an Endschuldigung. This contribution score has no sense synonymous. We both are in the same pot. You're on meat consumption, I do. I will even help PETA. Thus, we are both car-sick. The guest of us as "sick", promises is not serious, because he posts here is not understood and only wanted to write nonsense.
Antwort von Flashlight:
.... From meat-eaters to the slave-owners, a little far-fetched, but some are already fit ... From carnivores to slaveholder is not far-fetched: The rights of our own for us to take, we can only be deprived of other discrimination. And discrimination is ethically unacceptable, regardless of whether they are on race, sex, sexual orientation or Artzugehörigkeit based.
.... And do not come with any Uniuntersuchungen. There is for each study against the study, recently completed, which is of no use if you drink two liters of water. The difference between drinking water and carcasses of dead animals is probably something distinctive?. For a palate titillation let animals suffer and deny them basic needs. Is it morally justifiable?
The counter-studies, I should like, incidentally, which I'm looking for some time - the DKFZ in Heidelberg would certainly be interested synonymous tuned. Studies of the CMA, QS, the DBV (Farmers Association) and the association of livestock farmers, I know already - but not this bear witness of true objectivity. This lobby has, however, quite different advertising budget, their "message" to bring people under the ..
It surprised me but again and again how popular the meantime the results of a vegetarian diet (and that of many independent bodies confirmed - except of course the meat and dairy industry) and how vehemently the consumers resist. Yes, meat is a piece of life-force - AS LONG AS IT IS ALIVE!
... Before your s.das absolute dagen goes, adjusted the evil in the small growths, such as support of animal shelters, where the exposed animals in the land animal friends, and large dogs in small apartments the city for hours on Mr. Chen or mistress wait, etc. Since there are enough needs and your since until the end of busy life. 1. An absolute priority setting that subordinate values only after the full realization of the higher values may be, it is nonsensical, inhumane and immoral. According to such an absolute priority, it would be not only immoral, there's something to do for animals, while there is still commit some suffering people there, logically should have the doctor synonymous only to the seriously ill, the teacher only to children's concerns and the judiciary only to worry about capital crimes. Even stranger, we should only help when family, neighbors and acquaintances all needs are fully met. (Gotthard M. Teutsch) «second so long to leave until everything is done is more important, would be the end of all culture." (Robert Spaemann)
2. If you look at those people more committed to the larger importance of human problems persist, we note that this argument is obviously just an excuse and excuse to be saddled, either for humans or for animals to do something. (Dr. Peter Singer)
.... Otherwise, there are certainly synonymous a study that determines the film equipment in part from animal substances, then you will have your film project unfortunately adjust if you're vegan. Reminds me a little s.die 3 stages of truth: 1 Spott 2nd Vehement resistance 3rd Acceptance. Welcome to the club!
Who has no arguments, which prefers to hold to the ridiculous, what should he do otherwise synonymous?
Antwort von WeiZen:
Moin,
now with acceptance you will not be with me can expect. Since I have you forever, unfortunately, disappoints.
Antwort von Tinobee:
In your post are much more offensive than in my elements. Heul doch! In my contribution, contributions are more offensive than your sums? Well ... WERS believes ... LOL .... And so here:
Apart from this it is obviously perverse, animals only for the purpose of winding dead animals. diffamierst you so just from the wrist, the majority in this country as "perverts" because they happen to other opinions. Of course, this is okay because you're saying.
Sounds somehow by ... hmmm ... "Sociopaths". You're simply incapable of respecting others and to accept other opinions.
Pain (vulgo: "What on foot") is also synonymous in the opinion of experts of recognized A way, a sociopaths its boundaries. These limits are of such patients is only accepted where for their own well-being threatening impairments. Pain may be sharp or as synonymous as barbaric relic of bygone days will be classified, after all is not equal to each house recipe for ages unusable.
What is offensive about it? I really am firmly convinced that many of your spells in this forum would be in real life with the appropriate comparison to a rapid deformation nose lead.
But I'm not here for a free Ferntherapie there. This is pointless anyway, because the patient is always the
desire for therapy must have.
"sick" otherwise I find a statement like "Otherwise, there are certainly synonymous a study that determines the film equipment in part from animal substances." This compared to people with an honest and reasonable concerns to do with humor has nothing more to do.
The entrance will be posting a cameraman wanted. A fundamental debate on whether we should eat meat now and if not, why and when they do, whether of animals or wuschel naked, anyway here is totally inappropriate.
Such as synonymous of self and moral philosophy Pope, which I cited.
Antwort von Tinobee:
Who has no arguments, which prefers to hold to the ridiculous, what should he do otherwise synonymous? The opponents for all cases nor discredit! Or their own opinion as the majority opinion sale. Completely normal social process.
Also always liked (who remembers s.die not statements of FJ Strauss, his opponents on student): insulting and disparaging opponents. This keeps perhaps even in advance of the discussion from participation.
In addition, I eat like a steak or a slice of salami. But I respect those who do not want and will take a different view. I have not even against what "conversion" attempts (which are only in my case fairly unsuccessfully ...).
This is a free country. The only vegan, which I despise are those who have their pet (in our neighborhood: a cat) would like to eat vegan. Here is a veterinarian determined that this is animal cruelty. But those are really the exception ...
Antwort von WeiZen:
"sick" otherwise I find a statement like "Otherwise, there are certainly synonymous a study that determines the film equipment in part from animal substances." This compared to people with an honest and reasonable concerns to do with humor has nothing more to do. If humor is not synonymous, but is quite serious and makes sure to be synonymous.
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) Sounds somehow by ... hmmm ... "Sociopaths". You're simply incapable of respecting others and to accept other opinions.
Pain (vulgo: "What on foot") is also synonymous in the opinion of experts of recognized A way, a sociopaths its boundaries. These limits are of such patients is only accepted where for their own well-being threatening impairments. Pain may be sharp or as synonymous as barbaric relic of bygone days will be classified, after all is not equal to each house recipe for ages unusable.
What is offensive about it? I really am firmly convinced that many of your spells in this forum would be in real life with the appropriate comparison to a rapid deformation nose lead. (...) Your pain theories are really very interesting. The work safely with a sociopaths we me. Man you really listen to the expertise. This fits very grateful for Psychiatry (others suggest, the boundaries until they feel the company), for education (children beat until they answer correctly) and for the justice system (self-Justice: People beat if one believes it was appropriate). Great that you exist.
Antwort von Flashlight:
diffamierst you so just from the wrist, the majority in this country as "perverts" because they happen to other opinions. Of course, this is okay because you're saying.
Sounds somehow by ... hmmm ... "Sociopaths". You're simply incapable of respecting others and to accept other opinions. Not because something as "normal" is viewed, it must therefore synonymous correct? That is the task of philosophy or ethics, it is the systematic study of the question of good and bad human actions. I remember s.eine time because it was' normal ', women with red hair on the pyre to burn, I remember s.eine time when it belonged to the Establishment, dark-skinned people from your home and life-long delay to enslave. There was a time where there are many German (or because we knew nothing) was a goal, a master race heranzuzüchten. The same has been happening with other species. But just as then, we must now conclude that the detailed questioning of these self-evident moral sensitivity exists.
"A mistake is a mistake, synonymous when it celebrates the whole world"
now with acceptance you will not be with me can expect. Since I have you forever, unfortunately, disappoints. Because I would not be safe. Acceptance does not mean that you change your life. It simply means that you recognize the truth.
You can get what might persuade, but someday (if you do not die stupid) you will understand, synonymous if you personally do not agree with his wish.
Antwort von Flashlight:
Who has no arguments, which prefers to hold to the ridiculous, what should he do otherwise synonymous?
The opponents for all cases nor discredit! Or their own opinion as the majority opinion sale. Completely normal social process.
Also always liked (who remembers s.die not statements of FJ Strauss, his opponents on student): insulting and disparaging opponents. This keeps perhaps even in advance of the discussion from participation.
In addition, I eat like a steak or a slice of salami. But I respect those who do not want and will take a different view. I have not even against what "conversion" attempts (which are only in my case fairly unsuccessfully ...).
This is a free country. The only vegan, which I despise are those who have their pet (in our neighborhood: a cat) would like to eat vegan. Here is a veterinarian determined that this is animal cruelty. But those are really the exception ... see my previous post. This is not about selling an opinion - this is a fundamental debate on ethical and moral behavior, gentlemen. So much room for interpretation, I see it not!
Antwort von Tinobee:
Your pain theories are really very interesting. The work safely with a sociopaths we me. Tja. It runs but somehow always get the same result: PoweMac: you're really wrong here. In regie.de you could make a difference. There are currently a lot of people who need help.
PowerMac: If you believe that there is always against everything to be ... na gut.
However, if you seriously believe're cuddling pedagogy that will save the people - you have lost.
I graust it before this Gutmenschengerede ....
Antwort von Flashlight:
Even if we already are off-topic, I would ask a question s.die meat eaters are:
Why keep your meat consumption (ie the ordered murder s.Tieren) for rechtfertigbar ethically?
Perhaps it would be possible, the polemics and unobjective arguments aside just to be ok? Thank you!
Antwort von Axel:
Contributions against animal testing, factory farming, animal and the slaughter, there are many, often dramatic images are shown. The victim does not seem to show very large impact to have a short-term "concern" at the most. Because the victims are passive, they have no voice, with which they could bring. Their suffering and their death may stir when one of them is a witness (synonymous when a cow is not so cute like a baby seal, you do not forget the look), and you may as meat-eaters get a bad conscience. You have to do but with a bad conscience many, nevertheless, a bad conscience is a muffled "thou shalt not" and how miserable mood is sinking rapidly below the perception threshold.
People have, as next up is to say, reason. You can theoretically the issue reflect a contribution, but only if the contribution is not on their feelings, but on their brains aims. This includes some images. First, the argument from the table that people are omnivorous and without carnal food deficiency symptoms get. This whole complex of prejudice must be patiently zerpflückt.
In conclusion it must order the question of how to be happy as a man wants to see. The question must be taken seriously and not the smallest taste of propaganda have. If the film is up to this point has managed to interest, awareness and to awaken their own thoughts, one has achieved a great deal.
Antwort von Tinobee:
I do not think it is ethically justified. Surprised?
Adults can decide how they eat.
But kids need animal protein, for example - otherwise they verkrüppeln.
Well, anyway. Just come back eh PowerMac labert and everything down. In his world ...
Yes, passt schon. Mach just wegwink + +
Oh, I'm the host of flat, sry.
Antwort von Axel:
I do not think it is ethically justified. Surprised?
Adults can decide how they eat.
But kids need animal protein, for example - otherwise they verkrüppeln. Milk.
Antwort von Fubi:
Milk.
Is not enough.
Animal protein can not generate.
Right now. The last thought today my beer. i
Antwort von AndyZZ:
Am not a vegetarian, but try my little curb meat consumption. Perhaps less animal love, but rather as a survival tactic.
The vast cattle herds that have to be farmed meat, consume a lot s.Getreide. With what s.die Rindsviecher would feed millions could probably save on the brink of starvation.
Anywhere in South America are vast forest areas cleared for pasture land for cattle to develop. As the disappearance of the rainforest means for the climate is now undisputed.
And the Viecher fart like crazy. They contribute to a not inconsiderable part to global warming.
Furthermore, the human flesh a significantly higher aggression behavior as vegetarians. This was demonstrated s.zwei jungle tribes, under similar conditions adjacent live. Is actually synonymous logical: Who wants to eat meat must be killed.
It also seems obvious that humanity or the human brain never to this level of development would have, had it not Erweiße to animal itself. In view of the "achievements" of human existence would be to abandon it in front of millions of years probably been more useful. There are few creatures that are so consistently and comprehensively to prepare their own race and most of the other and several also completely eradicate them.
I'm from Berlin, but I am not a professional videographer but ambitious amateur videographers.
Antwort von Axel:
It also seems obvious that humanity or the human brain never to this level of development would have, had it not Erweiße to animal itself. Yes. Aggression is viewed as a positive part of human nature understood. Carnivores (the "hunter" in the animal kingdom) are smarter than herbivores. The perpetrators are active planners, the victims are passive and naïve ruminants. This (and not
carnitine
That puts it not synonymous, s.das conscience of consumers to appeal. Millennia of cultural transmission ("... subdue the earth. ") Cause the opposite. The Strong is having qualms about and eats meat, the Weak solidarity with the weakest, and not degenerate.
It is a sex-complex. Especially men in favor of meat. Meat is a piece of life-force, and their own piece of their own complaints Walder, requires sacrifice. Eunuchs are vegetarians. Sex - pacifist, defeatist, decomposers.
People are theoretically able to reason. We must show s.welchem point of evolution we are with our brain's stand. Relationships clearly identified.
Antwort von Flashlight:
[code: 1:8012723643] I do not think it is ethically justified. Surprised?
Adults can decide how they eat.
But kids need animal protein, for example - otherwise they verkrüppeln. [/ code: 1:8012723643]
And therefore it is justified in itself for you to eat meat? Sounds to me like: My neighbor is a pedophile, I think that's not correct, but since he does, I may be synonymous ... Hmm ...
Soso, as children need animal protein? Says who? The meat-and dairy industries? Or a neutral reputable institution? May I ask what you know about vegan diet - in other words how well you're in the topic? The meat is a much higher proportion of protein contained, as we need. The highest protein needs of man as a baby. This need is s.Besten covered with breast milk. Children need milk and not cow's milk. The latter has a very different purpose. And there are more than enough vegans in Germany, Austria (best vegan / vegetarian-rate within the EU) to continue in Asia, such as Burma, India and the world's largest proportion of the population shift is from Israel (due to the complex kosher rules). In these countries will be more than enough children vegan diet - has simply stopped reporting to tell us about the numerous abnormalities enlighten these children or what happened?
Milk.
Is not enough.
Animal protein can not generate. See post above. Please explain your statement, if you know it so well - I think that is interested in reading this for?!
... It also seems obvious that humanity or the human brain never to this level of development would have, it would not have to Erweiße animal itself. In view of the "achievements" of human existence would be to abandon it in front of millions of years probably been more useful. There are few creatures that are so consistently and comprehensively to prepare their own race and most of the other and several also completely eradicate them. That with the brain development is unfortunately synonymous as a fallacy. Until today there is no (!) Single study, which proves this assumption. It is therefore a presumption and not a formal scientific knowledge. But the science research course and is next to me some time ago
Antwort von Flashlight:
Very funny is always synonymous, as weak, vulnerable, unintelligent, "degenerates," old-fashioned and was always synonymous vegetarians / vegans are presented.
Maybe I should remember that many very clever and important people to vegetarianism had known. Here is just an excerpt from the list:
Albert Einstein
Leonardo da Vinci
Pythagoras of Samos
Plutarch
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander of Humboldt
Gandhi
Dave Scott (6-times winner of the Ironman Hawaii) uvm. Who's interested, there's extensive ne
Antwort von Pianist:
Just as info, why I've ausgeklinkt: Just as there is nothing brings with smokers about smoking to discuss them is nothing, with vegetarians about eating meat to discuss.
Matthias
Antwort von Flashlight:
It should, however, already more than enough to have smokers who have stopped smoking. Sometime did not hold the health and more with the bad conscience 'other' (!) Suffered the consequences, did the rest. I see parallels to this discussion. Until now, the cigarette industry did everything synonymous to the harmfulness of smoking kleinzureden, in meat and dairy industry looks no different from the face of new evidence every day that the recording of animal foods to a large extent for our classic diseases of civilization is responsible: cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, osteoporosis, arthritis, gout, gallstones, gastrointestinal disorders (caused by the well-known in the United States' Hamburger disease '- usColi bacteria in Rinderhack), the top is Cholersterin and some more.
Antwort von Axel:
Just as info, why I've ausgeklinkt: Just as there is nothing brings with smokers about smoking to discuss them is nothing, with vegetarians about eating meat to discuss.
Matthias It brings nothing to discuss with smokers. Not one smoker has ever overcome his addiction, just because his arguments have any (health, money, social respect, image) have been brought near. In discussions will always be your own view, since nothing is moving. To believe that humans have a free will to smoke or not to eat meat or not, is absurd.
Strange setting.
Intelligence is the ability to recognize many options, reason is the ability to make a conscious choice among these options to take. Who's aware of smoking, eating meat or the In-purchase of wars Take decide whose position is respectable. Is a cow ethically mature, because they can not build atomic bomb? Of course not. It may be synonymous no discussion about this. That separates us intellectually of her. Getting a free discussion with arguments to refuse (with an open result) does not.
Antwort von kiteschlampe:
Hi, interesting discussion.
First what do I need to get rid of: I'm no friend of synonymous PM `s Verbalatakken, some of them are offensive to me, in this thread, he has me, however, pleasantly surprised.
Furthermore, I find it impossible, as the "guest" was insulted, so something does not belong in a forum and the Admin Page of times but should consider whether it makes sense, "guests" to post it. This function should be eliminated. Sign up and ready.
And once you learn respect for your fellow man, and finally listen to your gut when dealing sociopaths definable deficits via Fäkalsprache s.anderen omit, you rascal immature. Under the guise "I offend because I want to help" makes it seem so far so good post. Your constant Verbalkotze you should warped times Balg you trust an adult's face to say. I would have really surprised if you are not properly in the shortest possible time due to the war would face.
Perhaps you would even help? But now to the meat-eaters discussion:
I'm not a vegetarian, but it had more than 1 year sampled. Why? I think it right to eat animals, but all around it (cruelty to animals, transport ect.) Strikes me as wrong.
As one or the other has already written, is the respect for the animals do not exist. Animals are viewed as a commodity and treated accordingly. Zuchtmast with tubes, animals, cruelty to animals only that one or the other, a fat, cheap currywurst more fat in his belly inside plugs can. Some people are missing the idea that an animal was slaughtered, so he can bite his burger.
Nevertheless, I believe that it is ok to eat meat in a specific context and taking into account the respect of life.
In other words, when we breed animals for Verzeht is OK, but please with respect and dignity. What is currently happening, breeding and slaughter of the devil come out, for fattening for people, for the cosmetics ect. is and remains wrong.
Yes, it is sick to me, when I see how people behave, whether to animals or the togetherness. And just so you can and will be a discussion not work: The inverted vegetarians are just as aggressive as the carnivores. None is so moving to rethink and we remain on the site.
What I would want would be a society which, although they eat meat, but in the knowledge that this was once a living, which are bred for human consumption and was not a piece of merchandise that is always available.
I was once in Tibet, there are monks who spend the whole do not move for fear of a beetle or some other micro-organisms to crush, because it does not matter how big the animal is, referring to the Kanninchen (achwiesüss) and cow debate.
So people rethink.
Gruss Chris
Antwort von kiteschlampe:
Sometime did not hold the health and more with the bad conscience 'other' (!) Suffered the consequences, did the rest. Oh yes: the bad conscience starts where the advantage ends ..
And one more thing:
Milk is unhealthy, but only incidentally.
Chris
Antwort von Axel:
And just so you can and will be a discussion not work: The inverted vegetarians are just as aggressive as the carnivores. Applies synonymous for non-smokers. "Militants" are often non-ex-smokers. I can confirm this because I myself alternately one or the other bin.
After all, you just withdraw an argument of the meat lobby - er - a breeding ground. If vegetarians are aggressive, forgoing the meat had apparently no negative influence on the hormone balance. You will not castrated rabbits by fruit and vegetables ;-)
Antwort von Flashlight:
To believe that humans have a free will to smoke or not to eat meat or not, is absurd. So your statement we are all slaves to our wishes? We can do nothing eh? Since I have but in practice quite different experiences ...
Is a cow ethically mature, because they can not build atomic bomb? Of course not. It may be synonymous no discussion about this. That separates us intellectually of her. The same can be synonymous of a newborn state, as well as mentally handicapped. But the fact that they are members of the group, they are not included in the discussion.
So is the criterion of intelligence, a being or otherwise not in accordance with moral principles to be treated? Jeremy Bentham, the founder of the reforming utilitarian school of moral philosophy, said the decision about whether a being has rights: "The question is: Can they think? or: Can they speak? but Can they suffer? Bentham refers to the ability to suffer as the crucial feature that a living, the right to equal consideration there. The ability to suffering is not simply an ability among many, as the language or higher mathematics. All animals are in the same manner and thus able to suffer like humans. They feel pain, joy, fear, loneliness and motherly love. Whenever we do something that could affect their needs, we are ethically obliged to take into account these needs. See synonymous equality principle Peter Singer.
Antwort von Flashlight:
To Kiteschlampe's contribution, I would - because it's grad fits well - like Tom Regan quote. Excerpt from his pamphlet "The philosophy of animal rights"
... Is this truth once recognized, it is obvious why the philosophy of animal rights uncompromisingly against any injustice, the other animals will be appreciated. Justice demands, for example not larger, cleaner cages for the animals used in science are used, but empty cages. It requires no "traditional" animal husbandry in agriculture, but the complete end of the commercial trade with the flesh of dead animals. It requires no "humane" traps and hunting methods, but the total eradication of these barbarous practices.
For when an injustice is absolute, one must oppose it absolutely. The justice did not "reform" of slavery demanded no "reform" of child labor, no "reform" of the oppression of women. In each of these cases was the only morally appropriate response for its abolition. If one is an absolute injustice reformed, we extended this injustice only.
The philosophy of animal rights demands the same response to the unjust exploitation of other animals: namely, their abolishment. It is not the details of exploitation, which need to be changed. The unjust exploitation itself must be completed, regardless of whether they are eg in agriculture, in the laboratory or in nature takes place. The philosophy of animal rights requires not more than that, but it is not synonymous with anything less satisfied.
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Antwort von Axel:
To believe that humans have a free will to smoke or not to eat meat or not, is absurd.
So your statement we are all slaves to our wishes? We can do nothing eh? Since I have but in practice quite different experiences ... Irony. If you do not use too often is not understood.
Is a cow ethically mature, because they can not build atomic bomb? Of course not. It may be synonymous no discussion about this. That separates us intellectually of her.
So is the criterion of intelligence, a being or otherwise not in accordance with moral principles to be treated? Again misunderstood. The cow has no choice, the cat has no choice. We have a choice. If I swallow sausages and roast chicken, because I'm so educated and do it all, I lack the awareness of the connections, just like the cow, which is the food of the beef cannibalism approaching. If I like Chris' kiteschlampe "next up, and this problem can still eat meat, I'm an ethical nature. Always good to see s.Zweifeln and a willingness to rethink.
Moral principles, generalized, are not only useless, they are annoying.
Eat no meat is a taboo propagated, in the short term to a different behavior may result. The tears, the root of evil s.der and forgets the earth around, in which the seeds are located. Sustainability is only one individual, free choice. And take every man for himself alone, on its own grounds.
Antwort von Flashlight:
... Sustainability is only one individual, free choice. And take every man for himself alone, on its own grounds. and hopefully after moral principles - then I am in Dir Because then I would return to my initial question: Why is your meat consumption for ethical rechtfertigbar?
Btw, as a supplement to your article:
In relation to the meat meal, there is between man and animal has no similarity: Animals (more precisely: the carnivorous animals!) Must eat meat, people do not. The man has a choice, not the animal. The man can act morally, the animal is not: "Pets can do what they can not, but the man can do a lot of things that he can not" (Konrad Lorenz). In short: animals can not be our moral role models, because animals can not act morally.
Antwort von kiteschlampe:
There are probably hundreds if not thousands of arguments for and against meat consumption.
If the Man is an omnivore?
Are we morally obligated?
I would be glad if the two parties is a small step to achieve:
The moral of coming down his high horse and listen to his dogmatic, ethical views, such as a stamp on the whole of humanity to press. Moral of the way with mace!
The meat-eaters should even think about what he eats. A formerly living beings with dignity and capacity for suffering.
If that happens, the extremely high consumption of meat car back, perhaps, the meat-eater a little more money for the "commodity meat" and made with the animals can sense and decency bred, slaughtered and eaten werden.Wenn times as far as we are, let us begin discussion of whether the man is a meat eater but until then next is a way ...
A man has for thousands of years the animal used to his advantage. Whether it is to be eaten, the bones for weapons and tools, as means of transport, hides and skins as clothes ect.
Only today, the animal is commercially exploited as a commodity and as cheap produce across the globe transported (alive) and s.Ende mechanically killed. These processes and a lack of respect on the life and the benefits of the beast is what this whole thing pitiful pervers appear.
An appreciation is not to the animal, but rather from a balance sheet is read out.
Gruss Chris
Antwort von PowerMac:
Singer, Bentham, Rawls - what Holde discussion.
Smoking and eating meat, but one should not equate. The first is an addiction, for which the consequences are well aware. The other is somewhat unreflective and unconscious, which simply does. The consequences and the need for meat consumption are simply not in question.
Incidentally, I can recommend falafel. I have eaten lunch today. Depending on the preparation of vegan and very tasty. This is in Yufka with lettuce, tomatoes, for vegetarians only synonymous with cheese.
Antwort von kiteschlampe:
@ PM (not too seriously)
Your Postings aggressive towards some ignorant scare me simultaneously of tips from your diet. Perhaps s.and to a good steak and your inner peace returns, which then of course in your postings would reflect low.
As I said, not zuu seriously, on the other hand, I've stressed that you're with me, your statements in relation to animal lovers überrscht positive searched. Had to read it twice to make sure it is not meant ironically ...
Gruss Chris
Antwort von DWUA:
Fortunately we do not belong to the genus
carnivorous plants. Then we would really be a problem.
;)
BTW "god".
If there is already after the Bible is found:
The AT is verqualmt of fire scale animal sacrifices
and in the NT is used to cannibalism and to the "food of the gods"
called. Flesh and blood will be bread and wine symbolizes.
We live in time and locally in the vegetarian clover.
Eskimos were hunters, because what they had to collect food
may also icicles? The
clever preacher says the Bedouin of the desert, they should not eat fish.
We can afford in any season, moral, ethical
healthy broccoli to buy or Lidl-organic bananas from Peru.
Some of the Eskimos, which we have met are vegetarians
become. They now take fruit and cereal in a liquid form to itself.
(Snaps).
If each of us only know as much meat would enjoy, such as
those or the writer of this text, would be a mass livestock
totally pointless.
Everyone a good appetite!
Most "grill chicken / Haxen" - fans would prefer to refrain from
if these wretched "stuff" for their lifetime would have to face it or suckling would have to kill myself.
But prefer fish fingers ...?! Or noodle cake with mashed potato
s.Sauerkraut.
Oh, the stomach growls, sorry.
Had 7seitige actually a gloss on this thread should be.
But outside the dandelion is too irresistible ...
;))
Antwort von PowerMac:
Yes, DWUA. I'm sauhungrig.
Antwort von Flashlight:
At least the discussion is now in a substantive discourse gemündet and I absolutely agree that this issue is really essential that people really realize what they eat, their food comes from and under what circumstances they are "produced" is. The process of self-awareness and becoming the topic of discussion is a step in the right direction. I am fully aware that the circumstances are not so simple can change to these traditions are very much to be rooted in society. It was once said that traditions be replaced by 'better' traditions can be replaced (the bull is also synonymous to a tradition ..). This process takes place over very long periods. Albert Einstein once said: "Nothing will be the chance for survival on earth as much boost as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." Probably it is another step in cultural evolution that of our ancient achievements to solve - we live no longer in the Stone Age and today many no longer necessary (so we write synonymous to modern computers, rather than on stone tablets). As an old fan StarTrek synonymous me a scene in the beindruckt Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard with a Klingons (or Romulans?) S.Replikator is the host and calls for bloody meat (Klingon halt) and surprised that everything comes from the replicator. Picard said that, they (the Earthlings) killing and eating of animals have long been behind him had brought - it plays like so many stories in the ST on nonviolence and justice. Yes, Jean-Luc synonymous eats in one or another sequence a piece of meat - but that comes from the so Rep. Today there is even scientific experiments, in which meat is grown in vitro - but that will probably still take ...
And since it is virtually synonymous relating to "consciousness" is: Who has the guts, sometimes the reality in the eye to see how our relationship with animals today, the times should the U.S. documentary film
"Earthlings" by Shaun Monson anschauen. The film actor Joaquin Phoenix (even vegans since child) speaks the text, Moby, the music made, Persia White (from "Girlfriends") was Co-Producer. The movie is absolutely worth seeing, if partially synonymous quite "hard", but apparently many times its effect is not (I know from personal experience). It is not a "slaughterhouse-film", but especially synonymous illuminates the ethical-moral aspect, as we now deal with animals. I'm sure a lot of info that most are not known. Earthlings is synonymous in the net in full length before (google). PowerMac already knows the movie, the white B'scheid ;-)
Antwort von WeiZen:
Moin,
just for the sake of completeness, I have 6 years in the meat processing industry worked, including slaughter and cutting plants. And I am only because of better pay in any other industry changed.
The only if one believes, I do not know how a steak is manufactured.
So I could kill myself, and to exclude further, but this is according to EU laws, slaughter house, largely restricted or totally prohibited Now? I do not know, I'm already 18 years no longer in the industry.
And sorry I'm sorry fiddle.
Antwort von Axel:
We have here indeed a rather colorful spectrum. DWUA who always with a wink solomonic want to defuse the debate, Flash Light, the Bajorans, where in the background Walgesang comes from the plant, wheat, the
meat is my vegetable of testosterone on the forehead reddened written and me and my cat, the five minutes before a fly has tormented. Moreover, as anonymous "guest", a spy from the planet Trafalmagore who is here to the meat quality of earthlings to assess. Unfortunately it has to Slashcam Forum sly, and his people in that distant galaxy continues to suffer under those learning (and small Pimmeln) caused by scurvy-vegans would benefit. What a wonderful world!
Antwort von Flashlight:
Yes, there is actually enough people who without scruples can extinguish a life. The butcher can do so well because he makes a clear distinction: Here is the man and there a little. Metzger are true masters of crowding, a childhood friend of me had the operation on his father, so I got an insight into the industry.
The fact is that the profession in society not just as a showcase of professional applies - what is the best? Yes, the butcher makes holding the 'dirty work' for which the other purely emotional even less capable. Just call it hardy, jaded. John Robbins, in his book "Nutrition for a new millennium with the slaughterhouse employees spoken and found that the fluctuation in the industry, probably the highest in the U.S.. No, it is not s.der pay, but that people sometime this profession is no longer purely emotionally able. Many catch s.zu take another drink and even the life (less than U.S.).
I am sure that only a very small percentage in this forum would be really capable, the veal or beef the captive bolt apparatus s.die forehead to put the lives and eradicate. After all - because it shows that man is still synonymous with something like compassion is capable.
"Sympathy with the animals depends with the goodness of nature so exactly together that one can confidently say who is cruel to animals can not be a good human being." (Arthur Schopenhauer - a
basis of morals, § 19) @ Axel: If yes, then the volcano (yes, they are regarded as synonymous strict vegetarians). And Walgesänge? Well, at least you have imagination .. ;-)
Antwort von Axel:
For when an injustice is absolute, one must oppose it absolutely. The justice did not "reform" of slavery demanded no "reform" of child labor, no "reform" of the oppression of women. In each of these cases was the only morally appropriate response for its abolition. If one is an absolute injustice reformed, we extended this injustice only. Justice, morality ...
See the people are not unrealistic. There are also, like in Star Trek, Klingons in any society, and your own psyche synonymous knows this Page (and perhaps they deny vehemently).
In Star Trek, the Klingons are not re-educated or fight, they will be integrated with
diplomatic means. The Star Fleet (should of course be idealized Amis) is obviously "morally" superior, but an absolute justice, they are not claimed to represent. There is not.
Abolish slavery, beautiful. It was only in America a war with 650,000 dead, called to formally abolish it there. It comes to us today, of course, that such an "absolute" (Un-) law can not be tolerated. The many "relative" injustices that remain: racism, exploitation, people are still relegated to commodity (labor, prostitution, human trafficking).
In Günter Wallraff "All Down" (investigative journalism), the author comes to the conclusion that people nowadays only one reason not to be processed soap: live, they are profitable.
For the case of animals there are two chances mE. Firstly, the changing consciousness of the individual. Secondly, the formulation of laws (which of course many have to be synonymous and only outlook has, if the powerful meat industry is already massive boycott by s.Boden lies) on the prohibition of animal abuse.
In all of this in mind that there are reasons for each behavior there. On Mission refrain. Mission is the preparation of a crusade. The word "absolutely" critical question.
Antwort von DWUA:
Children are also much more vigilant.
Some will not eat meat, if he can see that
the times a legs was.
The food industry knows this and produces sausage slices with
Clown faces or schnitzel Chen, the man is in the toaster.
Jamie Oliver had a "crusade" against the food in English
School kitchens started (again this saturday on RTL II)
where it seems pathetic delicious way.
(Shredded animal, crushed and pressed to Grinseflädchen).
Geschmacksnuance: ketchup.
A very contrasting example:
A new "art teacher" was his introduction of his
'Painting class "to Klassenfete invited. Here there was a
Wash tub full of lentil soup.
When the tank emptied after and after, appeared a completely intact,
whole pig head.
That professor has invited some time later, a trip to On.
Objective: abattoir,
all stations of the delivery shocked
Pigs and cattle on the Ausblutungsbecken / channels to
Factorization s.Fließband.
THE characterizes itself. (Not only optical; synonymous acoustic, osmatisch)
Not just this one:
http://tan.pflanzenmoerder.de/texte/speziesismus.html
Antwort von DWUA:
I would like to participate as an author. Stand behind PETA. Money Will not only help the world better. Mach with. Nobody prevents you.
But many want to help in this way, and it was only with the following
Criticism s.PETA:
http://tan.pflanzenmoerder.de/texte/petakritik.html
;)
Antwort von Flashlight:
DWUA what do you want us to say with this link?
PETA undisputed fact that no organization, we all know. Nevertheless, the meaning and purpose, remain unaffected. There is always something to criticize. The problem of animal rights opponents today is that they mutually make life difficult. Henry Spira was in his time been criticized when he first saw with Ingrid Newkirk (founder of PETA) got together. Everyone tries' his' ideals enforce synonymous when one pursues the same objective: the cessation of animal exploitation. Some discuss whether a gradual approach (reform) is better with radical or whether funds should be operated (Animal Liberation Front). And this behavior is not only the animal rights scene is limited.
Were all relevant animal rights groups around the world into an organization with a similar party coordination (eg, various committees) together, we would have achieved much more and the industry should really learn to fear: Henry Spira had at that time as a single person so much achieved, because it is simply true has made it virtually has operated marketing so he has alternatives, he has even cooperated (what many animal rights groups is unthinkable). In this respect it is simply the medium to long term thinking about the night's stop (unfortunately) not.
Antwort von Axel:
A very contrasting example:
A new "art teacher" was his introduction of his
'Painting class "to Klassenfete invited. Here there was a
Wash tub full of lentil soup.
When the tank emptied after and after, appeared a completely intact,
whole pig head.
That professor has invited some time later, a trip to On.
Objective: abattoir, all stations of the delivery shocked
Pigs and cattle on the Ausblutungsbecken / channels to
Factorization s.Fließband.
THE characterizes itself. (Not only optical; synonymous acoustic, osmatisch)
Not just this one:
As the philosopher Jean-Claude Wolf in his treatise "animal ethics. New perspectives for people and animals" elaborating, still does not dominate empirical knowledge of animals, but "animal" or "fanciful, idyllic or demonizing stereotypes animal" minds. Animals, except a few of ZoologInnen and EthologInnen, not as being recognized by a complex emotional and social life, but as a mirror and an allegory for human virtues and vices "is used (see WOLF, 12ff.). Animals, so Wolf, in a "metaphysical curiosity cabinet" deported. Not only animals serve us as stereotypes to define our world, but virtually everything. Our fellow men for us to play the roles in which we can see the objects, nature, everything must be for us a meaning. Synonymous and the PETA propaganda, the mass slaughter compares with the Holocaust, continues to demonization instead of Enlightenment.
Here is a film made. That is in itself problematic, since his biggest film successes through systematic exploitation of the metaphysics of life achieved. But these are old hats. Even Eisenstein has pictures in such a way that a desired effect of it had. Emblematic images, stereotypes and prejudices.
The film should be dispassionate analysis of these prejudices. Who by his own understanding understands that his previous view of animals as projections of their own fears and desires is stupid, will show real respect. Everything else, all the emotional accusations, the makers will inevitably move into the vicinity
of these
Antwort von Flashlight:
[code: 1:6 a16551f51]
Here is a film made. That is in itself problematic, since his biggest film successes through systematic exploitation of the metaphysics of life achieved. [/ Code: 1:6 a16551f51]
What 'film' you speak?
Universal life is in the animal rights scene is already known - the ordinary citizen most likely not know who is behind it and this is in fact a problem.
Antwort von Axel:
[code: 1:77 faf2a988]
Here is a film made. That is in itself problematic, since his biggest film successes through systematic exploitation of the metaphysics of life achieved. [/ code: 1:77 faf2a988]
What 'film' you speak?
Universal life is in the animal rights scene is already known - the ordinary citizen most likely not know who is behind it and this is in fact a problem. I do not criticize PETA, because I still do not have deals. My meat is of course not a waiver of any expression of a position, I have just as good as it never appetite. Probably because many things purely played with the reports of animals around me doubt that a species that is capable of something, mine is. I am receptive to the whole, and my contributions to be rather general trends indicate how their own organizations concerns often bungle and betrayed. I want to see how many of a better world, and I think the way there is through existing intelligence mistakes, not about new manipulation (of the article DWUA linked with the Holocaust Comparison by PETA shows, at least in this case, Agit-Technology) .
Whether film or magazines, this is splitting hairs, no?
By the way, a pity that the truncated thread is not under "Recent Posts" appears, the contribution would be larger. Perhaps fits the sponsors of the forum is not the issue (self-diagnosis: paranoid).
Antwort von PowerMac:
Unfortunately true, he does not thread appears on the left. Nor can you in this thread and note-taking only when one is logged on. Had a few days ago trying s.einem Unirechner what to write and was not logged. Schade, so we are spared all the guests ...
Antwort von DWUA:
It was originally sought after cameramen.
Finnish lakes if you want to film landscapes, you can
no man use of mosquito phobia suffers.
Another feels p.100 meters Height on a scaffold
really well.
And with a hay fever would be in an operating room may
better than one without a lawn.
Therefore, Christian Schmitt, right, right when he says,
what he is.
Requirements and conditions have been described.
(IPTV/HVX200/P2)
The thread was cut off the head.
Now he winds still like an eel, and will be even thicker.
The ( "philosophical") phrase, the thread has taken,
is not something evil.
On the contrary.
Since there is still a lot to say ...
;)
Antwort von Flashlight:
The thread had to take that phrase after a good colleague s.Anfang the forum thread could not resist, the people working for the cause, to condemn. And I am sure that he is just so without thinking expressed. And so we were ruck-zuck on topic. The philosophy defines itself as an attempt of rational self-critical examination of thinking and acting. As I mentioned above next've ever expressed, many unaware that they conduct with their fellow creatures and other people affected, so it is fast in the moral-ethical discourse.
But I found much that we treat this topic here and at the same time was, I regret how the contributors of the thread that it was "in seclusion" happened. Sure, off-topic has nothing to do with the actual purpose of this forum to do, but I'm sure this would still want to express some ;-)
I am life that wants to live, in the
midst of life that wants to live. - Albert Schweitzer
Antwort von B.DeKid:
Gude
Sorry that I am the thread auskramme, but had found by chance.
http://www.veggie-gourmet.de/Produkte.htm
The company is a branch of my father
I can only ever belächen the Meatless products in the form of meat must be sold ;-)
Incidentally, our neighboring countries because already next than we do.
England Sweden, for example, there are no products sollche more niche products.
And vorallem taste.
The "I" because of my fishing and hunting experience while synonymous eat meat, I would travel to the backpack so I often had always been green core / almonds / nuts / dried fruit with take you offer more for less weight.
** Note to the "girls" do not eat meat because the poor animals yes "so sweet" are - Gummibärchen synonymous then you should not eat. ;-)
** Note - Massentierhaltung = Well if you as a hunter M # rder represents their high seats lights ...... then you must not be surprised if the habitat of the animal was taken and we just now have factory farming - the sqm price can be done badly synonymous nem Chicken Treat 20 sqm ²
Tibet ** Note - In the targeted religion, it is believed the bags of a creature who is not in new levels can rise. Is tricky issue has nothing with meat or only partly to do
Alla
MfG
B. DeKid
PS Netter was the thread, just wanted to NEN bissel "self-advertising" on the make and Idiologie marketing indicates
If yes above s chon s.Hand of times children indicated sausage slices.
