Frage von henric-a:
Hello,
Henric hot I'm new here for me to be well-topic camcorder. Since I am young in July, I would expect :-))) me in the near future, an HD camcorder growth. I have been busy testing and forum posts to read.
First of all, I am absolute beginners in the field of Filmerei and the Cam will probably "only" for the amateur to use, usually synonymous with no manual settings, but because of the time with perhaps the demands change?
I'll give you my findings once again, you can correct myself if I have misunderstood something.
Since I no longer wish to put on tape, remains as the only AVCHD video format, right? My budget was originally at max. 500, -. Had me because the Panasonic HS9 rausgesucht, but then quickly discarded after the test I have read. What now my budget to 700, - hochgeschraubt. In the area probably come in at the moment s.ehesten AVCHD SR11 of the Sonyand the HF-100 with Canon in question, or where I tend to Sonytendiere.
Now my questions.
1. Are they at the moment is still the recommended s.ehesten cams in the price segment, with no tape or is there something better? The tests are still synonymous soon be a year old?
2. The Sonyhätte ja ne hard drive, not necessarily, with the memory sticks are expensive, so when the sony but then somehow a must. Generally the question, are the sounds of a hard drive behind the recordings to hear, and if so how loud? Is this really disturbing?
3. What I have yet to be found in the Panasonic was a big disadvantage that you s.den ran HDMI port only comes when you remove the battery. How is it with these two cams?
4. To post, because I come with my 2 1 / 2 year-old Core 2 Doe 2x 2.7 GHz, 2GB RAM, 8800GT out what the treatment is concerned? The files of the two cams to be yes, according to the test fairly well with most Progz edit be?
Many many thanks for your help
Many greetings
Henric
Antwort von Shiranai:
1) Yes. There are now synonymous Although improved Cams (Panasonic SD-300) but even then the cost 1000 euros. When is the miser in the first HF100 Sales Rank in camcorders (followed of og Panasonic and then the SR11), which says a lot in advance, right?
2) No.. Look at pictures on vimeo.com simply, I have as yet no hard disk noise on the SR-11 belongs.
3) As for the SR-11 looks like no idea. But when thou comest HF100 without problems s.den HDMI port - it is below the carrying strap on the right page.
4) Yes, no problem. 2 GIG of RAM would be more of benefit but, at today's prices should be the RAM but the smallest problem.
Antwort von nachtspion:
I've always initially synonymous with the HF100 geschielt, but only because no one here to HG20/21 attention. Has almost the same performance as the picture HF100 beherscht but recording with 24Mbit (Mpeg4) and has an integrated hard drive.
It costs in the trading synonymous only about 70 euros more than the HF100.
Antwort von Plenz:
Similar considerations, I just synonymous to, and I very much tend to SR11. For the simple reason: it has a Viewfinder. I can not always use the tripod, and the picture is simply a quiet, if I set the camera into the outstretched arms do, but slightly press against my head. And in this short distance, I see nothing sharp on the screen, so I must use the viewfinders, which also has the advantage of daylight to be shielded.
The post-editing, however, is synonymous to a question. I would prefer the material in the first course to convert AVI (but the computer will be quiet the whole night to do) and then in order to work fluidly.
Antwort von Shiranai:
Since you have the material already on SD-resolution liquid Down Computing for work. Quite abgesehn times that of a codec in the next few conversions never as the yellow from the egg - the quality is deteriorating - unless you expect it in an uncompressed format.
With full HD-Material Processor is always charged - whether it is compressed or uncompressed. After all, you have 4x more image than a SD video, your calculator must be almost 4 Films simultaneously. If the data is compressed, the calculator more in memory u deposit saves time - but need computing power for decoding. For uncompressed files, it does not need computing power for decoding, but must be constantly data of the hard drive and this leads nachscheffeln then synonymous again unflüssigem work.
Antwort von henric-a:
Thank you for the answers.
Hab mir mal s.WE the SR12 in MM may look, even looks nice from the HF-100, they had unfortunately not there.
Have now here in another thread synonymous again on the pros and cons read.
Somehow most of them tend to Canon because there may be many manual settings and the AF is probably better.
Is really stupid that you are always for one of two synonymous and must decide on something more must renounce.
Irritates me when Sonydas much, much better display and the very viewfinders.
As far as I am now at the Sonyverunsichert is that I am in the other thread a lot of very poor sound have read. Do I have another user of test video on my plasma with AC3 track angeguckt, there was nothing negative note.
What do I do now? Help :-)))
Henric
Antwort von Shiranai:
Mach ne table with what Cam speaks for each and then forgive you points depending on how important you are to different things. That means for example is when you Viewfinder SR11
preference s.no 0 Pts
b) would be good 1 Pkt
c) important 2 Pts
d) must be 3 Pts
And then afterwards reckon together ;-)
Antwort von henric-a:
So actually, I tend more to the Sony, but I would certainly have annoyed if I miss scenes, because the Focu as long as needed until it is properly set, or when certain things I can not film because of the Auto Focus is not clear comes manual and I can not change.
What surprised me, I've just the Canon HG-20 with the RF-100 and the Sonyverglichen. The HG-20 seems to me of the values in comparison to the HF-100 better to stand? However, it has no manual aperture, how is this a handicap? In this comparison, I noticed that here in the Vergleichstablle in something of Sonybeim Focus is manual. I think with the Sony Can not focusieren manual? What is now true.
Thank you
Henric
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... I think with the Sony Can not focusieren manual? ... You can of the Sony website the user to download the Camera: The find is still the most reliable indications of what a camcorder can be what and how to adjust.
Antwort von henric-a:
Kann mir mal bitte jamnd following statement from the Test of HG20 Slashcam explain
Like all shine predecessor the Canon cameras through impeccable sharpness and good manual controls. Criticize it is mainly the low Wide Angleund the missing zebra function. The competition has in the meantime Comparison partly much better display (SonySR11/12) and more manual control of the outside (SonySR11/12, CX11, Panasonic HS100, SD100).
Do I understand that, one, the possibilities of Canon's manual as a competitive advantage to angeprisen, the other, the competition may be synonymous.
Henric
Antwort von Schlingel:
Do I understand that, one, the possibilities of Canon's manual as a competitive advantage to angeprisen, the other, the competition may be synonymous.
Henric One can both cameras, but you can otherwise Sonysynonymous on the touch screen.
In other words, between the WHAT and the HOW prevail definitely differences. ;)
Antwort von nachtspion:
@-Henric s.Ich despair synonymous here because I am constantly in the test and the test database again and again to re-spells or incorrect information stumble.
The HG20 has told the HF100 will receive fewer points, but only so because the HF is smaller. But just because it is smaller, it is not necessarily easier, to say a bit more weight in my opinion, is even better.
As far as I have seen, there are virtually no differences between the HF100 and the HG20. The HG20 has a hard drive and is in the best setting in at 24Mbit. That with the Aperture, I have exactly the same way as you probably misunderstood:
http://forum.slashcam.de/viewtopic.php?p=343922#343922
I have the HF100 again sent back:
http://forum.slashcam.de/hf100-zeitverzogerung-cam-geht-zuruck-zu-canon-vt69239.html?highlight=hf100
You decide for yourself whether this would disrupt. The HG20 has and I in the media market could test, showed no such delays.
I am now back to the queue, because I do not want to see if maybe the new S100 HF was for me. But first comes in the next few days on the market.
Antwort von henric-a:
Thank you for your night spion Disclaimer.
Man man man, is really hard for the right to find, I think the first time the Sony, and if I completely missagt, she goes back.
Henric
Antwort von Rolf Hankel:
Thank you for your night spion Disclaimer.
Man man man, is really hard for the right to find, I think the first time the Sony, and if I completely missagt, she goes back.
Henric Hello
I opted for the HF 100 and ruled as a great film this step has not regretted it; thought synonymous, only that I miss the viewfinders, goes on but the display properly. A Viewfinder should already be high and this is None.
The manual controls, I would not miss synonymous.
Via the excellent image quality of the HF 100 is enough has been written
Remember that a hard drive is vulnerable.
Recording on SDHC cards is better, which will mainly become cheaper.
The Post goes with Edius totally unnecessary.
Gruss Rolf ...
Antwort von xkoy:
Servus,
hab mal mitgelesen here because we are for our impending departure for Australia is, and I still mim buddy NEN HD recorder fetched.
The RF makes very cool pictures, here's a video which really impressed me at Youtube:
Antwort von Plenz:
thought synonymous, only that I miss the viewfinders, goes on but the display properly. Honestly? You basically only film with Tripod?
Antwort von Rolf Hankel:
thought synonymous, only that I miss the viewfinders, goes on but the display properly.
Honestly? You basically only film with Tripod? Believe it or not, with Tripod ONLY. Since I am my films out again and perform publicly and on the big screens wüde any Wobbler for visual disaster.
The only exception when I do Gehaufnahmen, but there must be something in it's movement.
Gruss Rolf ...
Antwort von henric-a:
@ all to the new Canon models (Legria) refer.
Worth it because, on these models to wait, probably technically, I think more of her price.
The S100 RF will cost even more so at the moment about 1050, - I am so far beyond my budget?
'm A little surprised that some speakers refer to these models, although they themselves synonymous with a budget of only 700, - set. Or those who have not yet compared Prices?
Thank you very much
Henric
Antwort von Plenz:
Worth it because, on these models to wait, probably already technically Why? I'm almost:) decided to SonySR12 me to buy. What have the LEGRIA what SR11/12 does not? I see only the built-in light, but unfortunately lacks the viewfinders. What else? The 15-times zoom instead of the 12-fold synonymous brings not so much anymore. And the Sony's are much cheaper.
Antwort von Schlingel:
Worth it because, on these models to wait, probably already technically
Why? I'm almost:) decided to SonySR12 me to buy. What have the LEGRIA, which has not SR11/12?. A manual lock, anyway more control by the user.
SR11/12 restrict the user, the local test is not of "incapacitation" of speech ...
Nene, why Sonydiesen great sensor and the sophisticated touch screen simply did not want to round off, eludes my understanding. For me it would be nothing, but let everyone know myself ...
Antwort von henric-a:
This is my question still not answered :-)
Antwort von Schlingel:
This is my question still not answered :-) Edit: I did not synonymous answered your question, but of Plenz;)
Antwort von Shiranai:
But I saw now that the bal LEGRIA get out, the new series.
Weiss someone where there are the differences? s100, hf200, hfs10, hf20? S100 RF / HF S10
Both top model, the S100 uses RF exclusively on flash memory, RF S10 has internal memory. (as in HF100/HF10)
Technically better photo (8 megapixels) than last year's cams. Extra goodies like face recognition, xvColor, PreRec, etc. In return, poorer and less sharpness Lowlight quality.
HF200 / HF20
Here again, without memory synonymous / with memory. Consumer models with a smaller chip and a little more megapixels than last year's models. Therefore lichtschwächer again synonymous. Except longer zoom and also the goodies (see above) no real advantages.
Antwort von henric-a:
But I saw now that the bal LEGRIA get out, the new series.
Weiss someone where there are the differences? s100, hf200, hfs10, hf20?
S100 RF / HF S10
Both top model, the S100 uses RF exclusively on flash memory, RF S10 has internal memory. (as in HF100/HF10)
Technically better photo (8 megapixels) than last year's cams. Extra goodies like face recognition, xvColor, PreRec, etc. In return, poorer and less sharpness Lowlight quality.
HF200 / HF20
Here again, without memory synonymous / with memory. Consumer models with a smaller chip and a little more megapixels than last year's models. Therefore lichtschwächer again synonymous. Except longer zoom and also the goodies (see above) no real advantages. That's really not very good answer, many many thanks
So now I've decided for me that it is not worthwhile to maintain the models or that they are too expensive.
Henric
Antwort von weitwinkel:
disadvantages of the Canon: the lack of viewfinder and manual
focusing with the joystick miserable (impossible) ... there is Sony's peak fokus
via touchscreen gold worth ... The IAF and optical stability of the Canon is, however,
the Sony's clearly superior ...
gruß cj
Antwort von Plenz:
Fascinatingly, where other people have their priorities ... in any event, I've never, really never had a manual shutter want to have (a manual is more Aperture).
The IAF and optical stability of the Canon but the Sony is clearly superior ... I think that I could not use it, just because the Sonyeinen has viewfinders. Thus, I can face the camera and had to keep that way anyway a quieter camera work.
Antwort von RickyMartini:
Fascinatingly, where other people have their priorities ... in any event, I've never, really never had a manual shutter want to have (a manual is more Aperture).
The IAF and optical stability of the Canon but the Sony is clearly superior ...
I think that I could not use it, just because the Sonyeinen has viewfinders. Thus, I can face the camera and had to keep that way anyway a quieter camera work. You believe garnicht how quiet the images as a HF100 can be when she sees fit! :)
Antwort von Hagi:
And did you decide?
I consider nähmlich synonymous :-(
very difficult decision.
Is really the sound of HF 100 / 10 bad?
The SonySR11 - he has an HDMI port?
Greeting
Neuling
Hagi
Antwort von RickyMartini:
The sound of the HF100 is at least everything else is bad!
Antwort von Hagi:
Difference of SR11 and SR12?
Only the size of hard disks?
Greeting
Neuling
Hagi
Antwort von weitwinkel:
as far as I know, yes.
But just look in the database here ...
gruß cj
Antwort von xkoy:
Hey, thanks for the nice explanation:)
But where is the difference to the flash memory, and Internal? Is it same or dat?
So I want super quality! Viewfinder brauch ich nicht. Photo function not synonymous!
What will it now?
Antwort von Shiranai:
Yes, in principle, is the internal flash memory and flash memory the same. Only the latter with SD cards are meant stop and the other is already integrated. This is for people who forget their SD cards mitzuholen and then totärgern would if the camera says: "No card inserted" ;-)
Antwort von Hagi:
[size = 18]
I think I have decided the HF 10 to buy!
SonySR 11 cost about
100, - more
had me in Tevi times is a bit thicker because of the hard drive.
This is possibly
more time with Vulnerable but must not be.
HF 10 since Black looks fine and I find from internal memory to different HF 100 incl
SDHC memory ca
25, - ¬!
Viewfinder brauch ich nicht.
How is it with the Wide Angle Between the two devices?
Mfg
Hagi
Antwort von Plenz:
I have now ordered the SR12. The Viewfinder rulez.
How is it with the Wide Angle Between the two devices? For such questions there is a wonderful feature when compared http://www.camcorder-test.com
Antwort von Hagi:
how is that with the ton between sr12 and hf10/100
5.1 sony canon 2.0
Can the Canon s.Sonyrankommen (dolby moderate)?
Are big differences when weitwinkel?
Greeting
Hagi
Antwort von B.DeKid:
There is no (real) Dolby Mikros!
All emulated advertising scrap standard is MONO or just stereo - I persl. but find synonymous stereo microphones for Popo.
MfG
B. DeKid
Antwort von deti:
Quite clear: With Canon, you can adjust the audio levels - this is crucial!
No. of cameras has a focal, known as Wide Anglebezeichnen could. It is therefore the use of an adapter, such as the Canon WD-H37II.
Deti
Antwort von Hagi:
Schwanke still out and forth between the two devices.
HF 10 or SR11 :-( difficult ....
Picture quality varies - makes itself felt on the extremely FullHD Plasma Television?
Sony + display
Viewfinder + maybe (zitrige hands)
- Harddrive (is synonymous times more noises :-( maybe)
HF 10 + memory
+ Small
I need just a cam where I turn away and great films of my Kidis do (school enrollment, etc. ..)
Then burn to DVD ...
Time to cut and so I did not, and with various settings, work is synonymous to synonymous not important to me as I have said and turn away ...
soot
Hagi
Antwort von RickyMartini:
Take a Canon model, because the Canon AF is much better than it SonySR11/12 at least in the case!
Children are not exactly rare fast. When will you Mitschwenken a Canon deliver a sharp picture, while one of these Sony models only a totally blurred picture will provide.
The direct comparison between an HF100 and a SR12, I was able to make these observations.
Antwort von Hagi:
Thank you ...
I Deneke synonymous HF 100/10 that I suppose,
Viewfinder Sonykonnte of myself not as convincing, but cry after the sharp display and the good processing of the housing ...
HF 10 already looks like the noble HF 100 but since the price / performance fit differed more than 60, - ¬ ...
schaun times ....
Mfg
Hagi
Antwort von nachtspion:
@ Hagi: If you do not disturb hard, then take a look at times synonymous to the HG20. The image quality is on the same level as the HF10/100.
By verbute hard drive is slightly larger and heavier, but it is honest for me an advantage, I think nothing of the Miniaturwahn. In addition, the HG20 in to 24Mbit.
Antwort von Hagi:
As I said hard drive, I am still cautious ..
Yes and my limit is at 700, - bis 750, - ¬
SR 11 is the really fast so if you move the picture is more blurred than the Canon?
HG 20 was not as well off because weitwinkel and zebra ...
Antwort von jonnyy2b:
Hello,
I feel it just as many speakers before me.
The car with the Focus Sonystimmt unfortunately, but I must say that the Sonyein Einstellungsrad front with a button s.Lens has synonymous with what you manual focus with distance number in steps of 0.1 m can be! This is absolutely great, because if I think s.meine daughter as the out and hermarschiert before their kitchen, because you need a distance and finished. Since then any runs nähmlich constantly out Focus and her!
The aussteuerbaren with the sound, I can only say what you want because it is at chen time snapshot images often synonymous nor regular? I think that those who want to have everything set, which in reality are never used?
Someone has something of a video of a SR11 here in the forum told. I have the files from synonymous with the dog and from Lake Garda runtergeladen (m2ts). However, on my TV is only the really good picture! The sound comes only rare and short choppy. Can my speakers perhaps help as he has to run? I got m2ts files from an avi of it done and on the TV to gestöpdelt Sick?
I woll me synonymous get the SR11, which is actually somewhat larger, however noble synonymous. At Canon, I will just say, sensor buttons are bad, especially when they are older, with USB connection to hängz and fäht on monitors with only 1440th From my earlier experience with Canon, I can only say that as long as one has no problems, everything is good. Have you ever thought about why the only 12Monte have a guarantee?
Antwort von jonnyy2b:
Incidentally, the SR11's just been for 659EU and when she was already ecpon times for 644EU drin.
The colors of the Sony, I see as very real business! The others exaggerate it a little. With the XV color, you can still s.TV herummanipulieren.
I hope someone responds to my articles.
Greeting
jonnyy2b
Antwort von gkiphard:
So, what the tests say, I think not quite. I have synonymous because of the good test results to the HF100 risen, then was grossly disappointed and had given him back. Especially the color has not convinced me, over and rotstichig. Now I have the Sr11 and bind again happy. Neutral in color, very good picture, a little heavier, but not what bothers me, on the contrary (they can keep quiet), a whole lot of quality.
Antwort von Rolf Hankel:
So, what the tests say, I think not quite. I have synonymous because of the good test results to the HF100 risen, then was grossly disappointed and had given him back. Especially the color has not convinced me, over and rotstichig. Now I have the Sr11 and bind again happy. Neutral in color, very good picture, a little heavier, but not what bothers me, on the contrary (they can keep quiet), a whole lot of quality. Hello
So with that in HF 100, I can not confirm it. I am very satisfied and am actually quite challenging (had prior Panas. NV GS 400)
Gruss Rolf ...
Antwort von deti:
Between the two cameras are mainly a difference: the price. Consumer technology is obsolete in 2 years anyway, why would I guess HF-100. The less you today in the same quality should invest the faster you can with good conscience re-buy a new toy.
Why else?
- Better low light behavior,
- Better autofocus,
- Higher image sharpness,
- Sound aussteuerbar manual,
- Resistant to shocks,
- Manageable size.
Only the better display of the SonySR11 would be a good argument.
Deti
Antwort von weitwinkel:
and the viewfinder!
gruß cj
Antwort von jonnyy2b:
Between the two cameras are mainly a difference: the price. Consumer technology is obsolete in 2 years anyway, why would I guess HF-100. The less you today in the same quality should invest the faster you can with good conscience re-buy a new toy.
Why else?
- Better low light behavior,
- Better autofocus,
- Higher image sharpness,
- Sound aussteuerbar manual,
- Resistant to shocks,
- Manageable size.
Only the better display of the SonySR11 would be a good argument.
Deti The difference with a price I'll give you fairly, but I have the SR11 get cheaper as the HF11, because you have the same synonymous with equal compare!
Weak-light verhaltemn if I have a MM in my tests do not confirm that both rushing and if dunlen eg with chrome Knöpe come into the picture, the HF11 problems
Autofocus of the Canon is clearly better!
Image sharpness, I could not see clearly?
Sound disqualify manual? Can you shoot at the tasächlich and then still synonymous with the controller eierste rum?! The SR11 is a setting for a very noisy environment such as live music. I think that's enough.
unempindlich-clear but then I compare the CX11! And I find is a camcorder with its Optics and Antiverwacklungssystem always a sensitive part!
-Weight and size is always so ne thing to go and transporting it to the shirt pocket go to the keys could Filemen and the weight of advantage, as you may s.drei Szellem s.Körper this can hold, plus synonymous Viewfinder needed again!
Who ever filmed in bright light and has an LCD display only knows what I mean.
Find Your trotzdem toll subjective responses,
Please be next!
Thank you
Antwort von Hagi:
Wanted the SR11 On .. on the order but the prices are recovered rauf :-)
Schade ....
Antwort von spec:
Hello,
I am now synonymous before me point between these two devices to decide.
What makes me even more is the idea often mentioned bad Wide Angled HF100/10, the result would be the end of a WW-synonymous Converter advantage of this cost, however, synonymous nochmal good 100.
A memory HF100 + + Converter synonymous would cost about 700 euros, or about the same as the Sony.
However, I must say that I mainly used for the cam shots of my son need a converter for normal shots really necessary?
Is the Sony Wide Angled ever more crucial? Ausstattungsmässig yes but it has more to offer.
MfG
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... the often-mentioned Wide Angled HF100/10...Ist bad the Sony Wide Angled ever more crucial ... Since both cameras, I only know by sight, I look at the data beaten: The bad HF100 Wide Angled conversion of 42.9 mm is a not really the better of SR11 compared to 40mm. In small-field photo would be both practical as through normal focal length (which is there from the old habit of 50mm, more mathematically correct to 43mm).
The two values differ so little that you, in practice, either both your camcorder or you enough for both a wide-angle converter needs.
Antwort von Hagi:
So I finally decided :-) .....
After a long way and her got the SonySR11 ordered.
Decision criteria were mainly:
- Nice big screen and sharp
- Viewfinder
- V
Processing of receipts ... (; HDMI ... my I-slots are to push)
(; at Canon HF10/100 must be aufgeklapt and then pull out - s.plastikbänder depend on it ... I guess if you are often making the material easy to tear and possibly
... - Canon for large hands is not necessarily advantageous.
Canon advantages:
- Of course the Canon has better image quality ...
- No hard drive ...
Greeting
Hagi
Antwort von jonnyy2b:
What now for almost SR11 lowest seen price of 659EU get. That with the Wide Angleist absolutely correct! Only werd 100EU neither I nor the weight nor the Wechslerei mimachen. The synonymous because the light you have to suffer anything synonymous know! Desswegen every mm counts!
The camera made me wiklich again on arrival of the external quality. Super Finish, Fixed display and the thing you can touch it without the creaks s.Gehäuse. Dispay despite folding swivel mechanism, buttons, slider, solid! The display is wiklich Camera and the whole performance of your worth! Super sharp and well but with the adjustable wheel with 0.1 m display. The autofocus is synonymous is much better than the Pummpe of MM, which ran in similar tests in artificial sometimes 2X over the goal. The colors are very natural. because at the time vigorously vile colors yellow and blue green are absolutely realistic and need correction None, super. The xycolour I understand, unfortunately, not yet, because nothing could veststellen / recruit? The touch with the beginning, I found no good solution, but when I Eistellungen carried out during filming and was filmed at the same time, because everything happens on one level, I was able to discover first the advantage, klasse! However, one sees sometimes louder fingerprints Picture no more if you see inside the sun. There are, however, the search, which is really tiny! The dial is excellent with the 4 options. Only the wheel is too tight around s.Lens or had rotated by 90 ° to allow faster / liquid durchdrehen could.
I find synonymous, that the duration of the cam is really great for the big screen and hard drive.
The thing with the harddrive at the moment but I find the better approach. A 4GB card for shooting cheese is what you with its 8 only doubled.
So now I'll make final, so I am in the next deepen functions.
Moreover, I never thought the man in the dark with the stock certificate still throwing good film can geiles features.
jonnyy2b
Antwort von henric-a:
Hello,
can you please tell me when and where you Cam for 659, - have bought. Will I get the Cam synonymous and wait for the moment only thing that they will be cheaper again, at the moment of price increases rather only.
Thank you
Henric
Antwort von Hagi:
Have the right to increase prices. Did it for 719, - purchased and now costs 799, - ¬ ...
h.. p: / / www.rutten.de
gruß
Hagi
Antwort von jonnyy2b:
I have the SR11 at German Office Store bought. However, I have had until the end of my Bamel coal. I have s.02.04. ordered and paid for immediately by HB. I thought get it before Easter. The term price almost every day until the last back on 739EU. As the thing to> 2 weeks and was not on the Internet for reviews Schut came to me Krausen! Moreover, I have seen another evaluator that he had by last name after three days Cam got.
Would just like to say, let you better by sending surnames. Hab noch 2 Shop detected. AIM World of electronics and electronic. The latter had at 700th
Have fun while still looking
I think the SR11, but slowly, if anywhere the price is high.
Antwort von Hagi:
So have AIM synonymous considered until I had read the disclaimer ....
Wanted to do when Am_azon ... Order synonymous but there was already too expensive of 759, - to 839, - and currently over 1,000, - ¬ :-(.
Rutten has several branches at the moment price 799, -!
Hat alles prima geklapt synonymous in advance :-)
Greeting
Hagi
Antwort von Hagi:
There is the sr11 but under 700 euro:
Caution - Amazon Marketplace Dealers - Matrix Media Services Ltd.
Click here to read why:
http://www.mydealz.de/
Antwort von jonnyy2b:
Hello,
can you please tell me when and where you Cam for 659, - have bought. Will I get the Cam synonymous and wait for the moment only thing that they will be cheaper again, at the moment of price increases rather only.
Thank you
Henric Hi Henric-a
na from what? Did you now ne SR11 purchased and still get a reasonable price to nem?
Jonnyy2b
