Frage von SebiG:
Hello,
My current camcorder is a good 5 years old and just before a long time so I sat the last time synonymous with the topic of intense camcorder employs. Since I am now again wants to buy it so requires s.einer little advice.
So first on the scope. I work with Adobe After Effects and was synonymous to determine s.die 90% of the videos, which I do with this camcorder, in After Effects to nachzubearbeiten (be it color, motion tracking and other VFX). Of course, I would then s.liebsten ne studio camera to buy but I will not take a credit equal. It is necessary for me so in the private sector remain normal camcorder.
What I already have rausgefunden is that it is probably appropriate for hardware is very good to put on AVCHD. Because of my old cam, I have only Sonyist times by Sony leisure product range and got first rausgesucht this camcorder: the HDR-SR12E (for details go to sony.de)
An initial point of criticism that would be a lack of micro input but it has now been clarified. There are appropriate accessories for the retrofit. Of course, Sony or even third-party providers.
Then I would have a second point. On the one hand, with FullHD advertised but unfortunately it is only half FullHD, so the full resolution, but unfortunately, only interlaced. So the question. Is there any camcorder in the price range up to 2000 ¬, the FullHD enable the progressive scan or does it now because with my demands for something to be utopian?
So that is now synonymous not the most important because I have no problems the material in a progressive and can convert the slight loss of quality can be obtained from the well-resolution then synonymous with. And yes you have to progressively eh not always convert. Only then if there are problems.
The Camera is not yet out, so I will hardly find someone who has experience with this story but I think we can of other Sony products and / or the technical details on the SonyPage suggest something. What do you do it? Do I get from this cam images you very well may be under edit? Or what alternatives are there for? Even in terms of products yet to come (credible of Canon or Panasonic is synonymous soon something new)
I would greatly appreciate some answers look.
Antwort von Bernd E.:
HDR-SR12E ... ... lack of input micro ... What do you do it? ... SR11/12 were here in the forum only a theme, as you should with the search ever find something s.Informationen - including synonymous, the perception that the two camcorder very well have a microphone input.
Gruß Bernd E.
Antwort von SebiG:
HDR-SR12E ... ... lack of input micro ... What do you do it? ...
SR11/12 were here in the forum only a theme, as you should with the search ever find something s.Informationen - including synonymous, the perception that the two camcorder very well have a microphone input.
Gruß Bernd E. I'm sorry. I have quite a few pages and read through a lot in advance s.Infos collected. In some thread, but it reads that the HV20/30 the measure of all things and then it should be in some s.die HDR-SR10/11/12 not come.
Actually I just hope again to get some clarity. As I said, I am no longer employed with camcorders and in the last few days several hundred pages to read. That can make a quick kill:)
I feel like I said is that I can handle and the slightly more demanding. So in After Effects.
Solo you already say that there is but a micro Now as input and have read even a head synonymous Phones output is showing me off. As my knowledge gap prison at the time still is. I do not simply synonymous forever durchgekauten topics irgentwelche process. Actually it is enough to me to know. Whether the Sonyfür my purposes, or whether I was a huge mistake.
Antwort von SebiG:
With AVCHD cams, you need to get möchtig computing power - because if you do not want unpleasant surprises, you should previously synonymous points "calculator" and "editing software" to clarify ...
Antwort von SebiG:
With AVCHD cams, you need to get möchtig computing power - because if you do not want unpleasant surprises, you should previously synonymous points "calculator" and "editing software" to clarify ... What exactly does' powerful computing power for you?
So apart from that I am in After Effects can work with proxies, as well as no longer need power and so only the final render long will I have the following calculator is here.
An Intel Core2Quad QX6600, with 4GB Ram (upgradable to 8GB). So as I see it I should be so well served, I have the extra Calculator synonymous under the aspect of video editing together. If you do not under enough computing power would understand me perfectly sure what to purchase an AVCHD Cam is concerned.
Antwort von SebiG:
"Actually, I just hope again to get some clarity. As I said, I am no longer employed with camcorders and in the last few days several hundred pages to read. It can quickly kill:)" If you here a few hundred pages to read, then I would think that it is due to the statistical frequency of those specifications or characteristics of the various camcorder no such fundamental question of how the more you should give.
Apart from this, no clear recommendation. If it is there, then it would not have more than one manufacturer with diverse products, which all sell .......
Antwort von SebiG:
If you here a few hundred pages to read, then I would think that it is due to the statistical frequency of those specifications or characteristics of the various camcorder no such fundamental question of how the more you should give.
Apart from this, no clear recommendation. If it is there, then it would not have more than one manufacturer with diverse products, which all sell ....... Therefore, yes the right of me said that I just know if I would like with this cam totally wrong advice or just good to me. This is not the cam, which everything and everyone is happy makes me realize.
I'm so sorry that I am here with my question probably partly due to opposition stumble but hundreds of pages on the subject of dozens of forums and pages to read is probably just as many questions arise as to be clarified. Therefore I only wanted to again seek a few opinions.
ps And yes, just now is again a new question arose. The SR12 advertises with the logo "1920x1080 recording". However, it is synonymous 1440x1080 as Resolutionunterstützt. The question is why? As a pessimist, I could say, perhaps only a 1440x1080 picture at 1920x1080 but dragged the logo promises something different.
Antwort von SebiG:
Do not be pessimistic bez. HD-SR12. The camcorder itself is already in order when only synonymous with meager 16 Mbit / sec.
But after a passionate agent you will actually not very much pleased with AVCHD, it is time to stop, but will certainly change
Antwort von SebiG:
Do not be pessimistic bez. HD-SR12. The camcorder itself is already in order when only synonymous with meager 16 Mbit / sec.
But after a passionate agent you will actually not very much pleased with AVCHD, it is time to stop, but will certainly change Hmm that would be then not so great views. Is it really so difficult to calculate? I got in the electronics market, the wait actually aufegeben. Because heißerwartete once the new technology available, it is much better already been announced. The hope of a cam to put the still is not out there, I therefore s.besten.
As I said, I was actually on the secure page. Since I, thanks to proxies in AE with significantly lower-resolution versions of the videos work. And then when the render twice as long as normal, I could even live with.
How "bad" is it really with AVCHD? If the long calculation time only s.den data on the camera or is synonymous with new tools or plug-ins directly from the PC to facilitate the process?
As already said, would be the primary area of SR12E some "massive" post. If this is really so very difficult to handle. If you leave me no other choice so as to wait? Or working with AVCHD and someone can give a little complacency?
Antwort von SebiG:
After editing, if you really so important, there is currently only the "alternative" HDV - it works just as easily as it used to DV AVI.
Antwort von SebiG:
After editing, if you really so important, there is currently only the "alternative" HDV - it works just as easily as it used to DV AVI. But yes AVCHD HDV is inferior, at least I have until now always be heard. But what is the real problem of when editing AVCHD?
I've always just read that there are hardly any tools exist to vernümpftig videos on the Pc to get but it would mean relying on a software solution or can wait. After that you can indeed live.
Or is AVCHD just totally inappropriate if a post-editing is important? I'm certainly not the only one synonymous material Cam after a consumer wants to edit.
Antwort von SebiG:
Tip: fourteen days damper hold and read more information about Basics, no snivelling Sermon here mortise and then maybe with sound and targeted questions come .........
Antwort von spyro:
Tip: fourteen days damper hold and read more information about Basics, no snivelling Sermon here mortise and then maybe with sound and targeted questions come ......... Thank you for this very useful contribution. I think I've read enough and my questions are clear enough.
What is needed are concrete answers. Why not to edit AVCHD? If there is only the computing power is for me not a criterion. Since I no restrictions with proxies voted in the workflow. If there is something else however, there was talking, then you may be happy to respond.
I know it now has two "camps" there. Some sat on the future clearly and AVCHD and the others remain only in times HDV. So please do not come with such harsh comments, because a unique solution, it seems, therefore, never to give. I had to put on AVCHD, because the future is here and just wanted to seek another opinion if I so totally wrong.
If it now means I can edit AVCHD material of AAE totally forgotten then ok but if it is only computationally intensive, then I put it like a. So please, no accusations. My questions, I can hardly express more clearly.
ps I know, unfortunately, not even if the last contribution of "guest" at all of the same "guest" is like in the papers before it. An easily recognizable user name should be given help.
Antwort von WoWu:
Hello SebiG
Do not enter "Boxhorn" hunt .... usually speak only of the problems with AVCHD, which it never did ... ud are usually important to recognize that they remain anonymous, so you do not one day when everything else comes, it can measure ...
That's just the dark side of such a forum ... stör'Dich not turn.
Times you read the reports of practitioners, as empowered by Marcus, whose daily bread it is to deal with it and not go to the glue of people who do not even trust their names to put what they advise others.
There are scientific surveys on the subject of the University of Rostock, the requirements of the H.264 s.die CPU performance are investigated and the results presented have a clear ... not such a gossip, but hard facts.
It is true that the NLE Manufacturer implementing first need to make and it is synonymous true that the best algorithms of course royalty laws are ... So you will not augur well for the Find shareware vendors. Quality has its price level, but synonymous, but you'll get an excellent quality, at reasonable ranges.
I will not repeat what I have already written the theme but if you have specific questions, ...
I even put it in the algorithm and quite happy to answer your questions.
And so it is not equal to the huge outcry there ... I earn my money with no H.264 advertising synonymous and have no obligations to any manufacturers, unlike many here in the forum.
We are now working now one year with AVC-I and achieve excellent results. Only this is the reason ... because there were clear improvements on the "in the aging MPEG2 there.
Antwort von spyro:
"......... usually speak only of the problems with AVCHD, which it never did ... and tend to recognize that they remain anonymous, so you do not one day when everything else comes can be measured ... " Synonymous, I think that AVCHD once the day will come, where all different and there are no problems anymore and this is no longer coding s.den other will have to measure up ......
This day long and probably a lot of guilt at the same time, so it means: wait until this day is estimated to occur SebiG and will soon be the case
Antwort von Bernd E.:
We are now working ... now one year with AVC-I and achieve excellent results. Only this is the reason ... because there were clear improvements on the "in the aging MPEG2 there. This will ensure no one doubts, but I in AVC-000 is cameras p.35 - how to get involved in another thread or even write - but holding a different site than the consumer AVCHD, in this case is. The first think I could be an exciting format that will hopefully synonymous times on other media as a P2 card can be recorded - of the latter on the other hand, I would still let their fingers, if the criterion "good post" is.
Gruß Bernd E.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Bernd
Unfortunately, once again, as has been often complained of me, without solid justification ... Partly us once your experiences with H.264 with ...
Precisely for this reason, I've synonymous reports on the experience of practitioners as Marcus, which, in the daily operation of it.
In addition, AVC-I, by no other format, but only occupied a higher bandwidth, but also based on the H.264 and AVCHD tools. In relation to the processing of it is subject to such conditions as synonymous here zugrunge processes are identical. So you can very well compare the processing speeds. And with the price of the camera now has nothing but synonymous to do nothing, because the stands at the far post in the Case.
Antwort von SebiG:
Hello WoWu,
ever grateful for the answers. Can you give me maybe a theme called that aspect of my AVCHD postprocessing times could read?
So I'm going continue to assume that because of the AVCHD currently not available in all programs optimally integrated tools for a post-optimal? So will s.dem format itself, which the Cams produce nothing more to change? My problem is now that I read everywhere that HDV slowly expires man with AVCHD and well prepared for the future was, so I insist on the time as synonymous to the SonySR11E/12E models.
But I will then probably first focus on the process in Adobe After Effects need to look and buy, I will appear in the Camera and make of the 14 days return guarantee use.
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... maybe it escaped your attention so that I have MPEG4 H.264 AVC in the form I prefer, but with that of the AVCHD you mentioned are not directly something to do ... ... In addition, AVC-I, by no other format, but only occupied a higher bandwidth, but also based on the H.264 and AVCHD tools. In relation to the processing of it is subject to such conditions as synonymous here zugrunge processes are identical ... What AVC AVCHD and I have to do with each other synonymous or not, has now become clear, or at least not synonymous ;-)
Partly us ... but once your experience with H.264 with ... Fortunately, I no longer even make every experience to learn, but I prefer my synonymous lessons from the experience of others. In the specific case, adding a second point: Since I use my own material is not cut, do I s.den processing capabilities of the production companies are based. When None of them is in the foreseeable future, AVC-I, or even as an acquisition format AVCHD an issue (but - I trust here's hardly worth mentioning ;-) - XDCAM HD), so that I will discuss very interested H.264 but may have left.
... with the price of the camera now has nothing but synonymous to do nothing, because the stands at the far post in the Case. I think you've already understood what I am with the price indication was meant only as AVC-I, in which money plays no role, something good must not be synonymous car in the AVCHD Einsteigercamcordern be something good. And just that the AVCHD SonySR12 is for the thread starter relevant.
Gruß Bernd E.
Antwort von WoWu:
Bernd You see, I meant:
You say (shortened)
I have no AVC, not even distinguished themselves, did so because there are no synonymous own experiences and those in which I can cut, they
have no own experience synonymous because AVC for them is not an issue.
The cut in any x.. Formats, and so I say all synonymous, AVC is bad.
Also, I have never seen the difference between AVC and AVCHD I seen, nor am I so handled but I can say it's a world of difference. Bernd, I was not malicious, but that is what I meant was ...
Antwort von WoWu:
@ SebiG
The theme of AVC is really an entire complex s.Zusammenhängen, but builds on MPEG2, only with very sophisticated tools. Of course, these improvements require the computing power and of the software manufacturers to write the appropriate codecs and the implementation.
I know, unfortunately, no summary report relating to PP with AVC. Many items are only "piecemeal" and just such interpretations. Therefore, in my book I tried, the issue of something next to it and treat the environment video (camera) and post-embedding. Certainly, there are about a lot more to write, but it always travels at the level of expertise and depth of understanding.
My sources for the theoretical part of the Original Drafts of MPEG, the experience and investigation reports from the universities and the tests of the EBU, or affiliated television stations.
There are profound insights that are not from "the belly" to be shot.
Unfortunately, this is the moment the only real recommendation that I can give. Discouragement, I can very dubious of many articles which are often an entirely different purpose than the objective reporting have.
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... this is what I meant was ... While I am glad that you see confirmed, but actually is reversed out of a shoe: When only the best experience can be applied, leads to both forums like this as synonymous to the experience (!) S.absurdum among colleagues. I have not even so synonymous with a Aiptek film to know that her image behind a SonyF23 behind ;-)
Apart of this fundamental issue, I think, however, that such a debate, the thread starter helps little. If you're convinced that a consumer AVCHD camcorders today, for someone who wants to edit a lot to recommend, then you would not preclude that.
Gruß Bernd E.
Antwort von wolfgang:
And again, it will be sweet and nice.
Facts:
s.dass the AVCHD material in today's consumer camcorders is not of the material on HDV or inferior. Here, so far remains undecided
b) AVC-I, like AVC principle is certainly a greater potential than mpeg2 - only has the industry in the device range up to 1000 euros this Potentails simply moving and not lifted
c) Of course you can now synonymous AVCHD editing - but with considerably more overhead than in the case of HDV. With a quad you have so perfectly good conditions - and if it be native, then take the time either Pinnalce Studio 11 +, or Vegas Movie Studio 8 and Vegas 8th If we want to work Intermediate codecs are products such as Canopus Edius Neo or unverändet good. Particularly for intensive compositing in AE would be the use of intermediate codecs perfectly empfehlenswert - whether the choice of the Cineform codec, or of Canopus.
d) to present the industry in the price range of 2000 to 6000 euro no AVCHD camcorder s.Markt, which gehobeneren prosumer-rights synonymous only would provide nearly enough. These are, unfortunately, remain unchanged or HDV mpeg2 based devices. Also of this page, I would either wait - maybe we see gehobenere AVC devices so even 2008, or rather just to HDV or MPEG2-based access equipment.
Should you still reading this intesssieren - then look here.
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=4686
Antwort von SebiG:
Hello Wolfgang,
I thank you for reply synonymous.
The image quality is ultimately not in the format, but simply in the Camera. The SR12 is of course still remains interesting. I think the whole answer and synonymous here herschenden disagreements, it is probably the best, simply appear on the new cams to wait and buy them before the test.
So now I will first appear on the SR12E wait and test it extensively. Time if I look at the possibility that material in the shop, and then incorporated with a USB stick with you. If not still buy and hold within 14 days of the return period for free.
So I would then SonySR12 as AVCHD Cam test and as an alternative as the Canon HV30 HDV cam.
Had the two comparable, as representatives of the two formats, or should I as an alternative HDV Cam but another test to make?
ps By the way here but ever grateful for the help and useful links.
Antwort von spyro:
When the SR 12, the
logical development of the SR 1, and the HV 30 to HV 20, then I can think of who makes the race ...
Maybe you should synonymous but alternatively the SonyHC 7 or 9 to consider.
Some points on which you'll still synonymous think should:
SR12: challenging post as AVCHD, no micro-input, no headphone jack - Advantage: no drive noise, smaller than the other two
HV20/30: probably the best optical image quality in this price class, but in any case, when tested at any mitaufgezeichnete drive noises, no Lanc, no HDMI
HC7 / 9: optical not quite as strong as the HV 20 - but is better in the hand, has Lanc (for remote control, underwater housings Kamerakran or important) and better Audio - Disadvantage: expensive batteries, Sony's Active Interface Shoe is only with Sony products - just Typical Sony ...
Antwort von SebiG:
SR12: challenging post as AVCHD, no micro-input, no headphone jack - Advantage: no drive noise, smaller than the other two
That with the Micro and headphone input, so it in the technical data but this was already said that the mind should be included. So what is wrong now?
If it is not there, you can still input the micro retrofit.
ps Ok then I get the HC7 / 9 synonymous mal anschauen.
When the SR 12, the logical development of the SR 1, and the HV 30 to HV 20, then I can think of who makes the race ... and what would your assessment will win?
Antwort von Bernd E.:
SR12 ... ... no micro input, no headphone jack ... When you press the official documents of faith can Sony, the SR12 both. On the homepage is in the opposite, but the information there are already more than proved faulty.
...HV20/30...kein HDMI ... Both cameras have an HDMI output.
Gruß Bernd E.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Wolfgang
) That the current AVCHD material in consumer camcorders is not of the material on HDV or inferior. Here, so far remains undecided By virtue of what you do that, what are the comparison tests, as they were made and why soft comparison of tests such as the Association BlueRay exactly on this topic of your claim significantly?
b) AVC-I, like AVC principle is certainly a greater potential than mpeg2 -- AVC is also in the "Consumer Profiles" has a considerably higher potential.
See MPEG 4 H.264.AVC. Otherwise no one would need to develop MPEG2.
d) to present the industry in the price range of 2000 to 6000 euro no AVCHD camcorder s.Markt, which gehobeneren prosumer-rights synonymous only would provide nearly enough. Until HDV or MPEG2 based devices for the prosumer s.Markt were it has lasted
12 years ... which is considerably faster H.264 go, at least since the first camcorder not even one year has elapsed.
Quite aside from that I am with the purchase an AVCHD device for various reasons would have to wait anyway.
Antwort von Helene:
...
and what would your assessment will win? The HV 30 - (the HV 20 has in this price class, the best image quality).
Antwort von Helene:
... Until HDV or MPEG2 based devices for the prosumer s.Markt were it has lasted 12 years ... which is considerably faster H.264 go, at least since the first camcorder not even a year has passed ... Since it was not for the appearance s.Markt, but about how much time passes between the offering of a solution for the prosumer and a solution for the consumer on the street.
And there it was just the
reverse in HDV - and has not lasted 12 years.
FYI:
HDR FX1 in January 2005 (approx. ¬ 4,000)
HVR Z1 in April 2005 (about 6000 ¬)
HDR HC1 in August 2005 (1,600 ¬)
HVR A1 in October 2005 (approximately 2800 ¬)
... be found in Slashcam camcorder comparison.
All other consumer solutions were
then! So why is the industry's prosumer market with AVC Cams in peace? Possibly yes, because these "prosumer" exactly who s.meisten of the "post" live?
But maybe it's synonymous Other reasons ...;-)
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Anonymous Guest
You totally overestimated the prosumer .... with the few enthusiasts for the industry is no real money to earn.
In the consumer market, plays the Music!
Then the broadcast market and the number of prosumer market somewhere under "also ran ..."
To view the list forward to complete: Feb 2004 JVC GR HD1; Nov 2004 GY HD-100
Antwort von Helene:
In the consumer market, plays the Music!
Why could we dan in Blödmarkt or in the star department DigiBetas not cheap to buy?
Why was the Introduction of Mini DV and HDV first prosumer market?
Why has MPEG2 on Micro MV never the way to the serious filmmakers found? The AVCHD number reminds me a little - only that now more than one manufacturer involved.
I do not take it amiss - but once the industry has admitted that AVCHD is not even for the post was intended,
it sounds to me now after everything "Durchhaltevermögen slogans" - the thought did not ironed out the weaknesses but work secretly already a " Follow standard ".
Incidentally, the target of JVCs you were not synonymous ... Konsumercams
Antwort von WoWu:
Hello Guest ...
You make a small but very far-reaching mistakes ... You go with the names only, without the underlying properties in order to connect.
In addition, it appears that in fact a paradigm shift currently taking place.
Why could we dan in Blödmarkt or in the star department DigiBetas not cheap to buy? The digi-beta has very specific technical properties that are intended for use in the broadcast area predestined. These characteristics and the bandwidth saving set certain options provided. And this at a time when the environment is not so developed, as it is today. This resulted in the price.
In addition, one in the studio environment at the time with 270 Mbit / s and circumvent the DigiBeta unfortunately get the coded (reduced) data are not published, only the baseband-SDI signal. Would you do that at the time with your PC can do?
Could you be today?
Why has MPEG2 on Micro MV never the way to the serious filmmakers found? The AVCHD number reminds me a little - only that now more than one manufacturer involved. Why would you make MicroMV, MiniDV than long been established?
The step to MiniDV included the variant of the DV HD recording in a tape must be synonymous you appear more attractive.
The AVCHD number reminds me a little - only that now more than one manufacturer involved. I think just the HDV "hold up" like a parole determination, because it will always be in progress ... but it is always synonymous someone will give the color in the TV picture remains superfluous for keeps ...
Tell me synonymous, how can we hold out a bit if it is not even tried (AVC)? In addition, H.264 is the HDTV standard and HDTV, you will not be escaped, is more often found in Germany a little pie in the sky (at least in some institutions) as a fact with which we "hold out" should be.
(the) work secretly already a "standard sequence." True .... if you look at MPEG4 with its future viewing possibilities, then the layer-oriented transmission is due soon.
But it will have long worked .... I can assure you from my own experience confirms.
Incidentally, the target of JVCs you were not synonymous ... Konsumercams ... Incidentally, we talked in the context is not synonymous more about the Consumer and listed examples of you so you can not exactly synonymous as a mass product for the birthday call filmmaker ...
But verrat't me maybe once more, with what you wanted to say your posting ...
Antwort von wolfgang:
@ Wolfgang
) That the current AVCHD material in consumer camcorders is not of the material on HDV or inferior. Here, so far remains undecided
By virtue of what you do that, what are the comparison tests, as they were made and why soft comparison of tests such as the Association BlueRay exactly on this topic of your claim significantly?
That you must then keep this Association ask - I have considerable quantities s.Testmaterial subject, and none has a quality that is of today's HDV devices would actually stand out.
And synonymous if the codec has more potential - has raised so far, no device in the consumer price class up to about 1000 Euro.
And no, it would have been long ala FX1 camcorder or Z1 basieend on the AVC codec can build - if you wanted. Of course, in full-HD, a sufficiently high data rates, and with appropriate optics and reasonable camcorder housings with halfway reasonable control. Only one does not seem to want. What raises the question of why this is so. Maybe because the quality of these devices would be good?
And that's the real problem: what to use one the great theoretical possibilities of the codecs, if the industry is still very pure consumer appliances under 800 euros or so used?
With this score, the host quite right - we are seeing now simply no AVC devices from 2000 to 6000 in the euro area, which would really make sense.
Antwort von WoWu:
If AVC synonymous 12 years time, such as HDV, then we can still safely lean back ... and the material that you did because ... funny that BlueRay Association just synonymous only for comparative AVCHD had ... So everything bad material, it's how you judge. BlueRay However the ruling that, at 16 Mbit / s no difference to the original note is longer. The test is open to the public, you can the "rubbish", the desire to write the book ... synonymous comparing the methods are published ... perhaps they have soft of your methods? Maybe yes it is justified, the difference in the outcome ....
Wolfgang, I do not take it amiss, but I think as more thorough testing and the less the Home Sightings and amateur observations. I think more synonymous the publications of university studies, as the playful s.heimischen trial & error NLE.
For me, there are facts and Misc. .... What do you think, what for me is one of the facts?
Antwort von SebiG:
For those who love Home Made tests have to, I will be here so synonymous times my test results with pictures and sample videos post. The start will be told how to make the SR12. The only problem is, however, that if I order in all respects'm satisfied, no further tests will follow but we wait for the first time.
ps The SR11/12 really just seems to use AVCHD, which according to the Blu-Ray Association as the standard is defined. Looking to the official press report is suddenly no longer just talk but of AVCHD of MPEG4 AVC/H.264
Antwort von WoWu:
@ SebiG
AVCHD is synonymous only a trademark of Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic) and SonyCorporation and includes (unfortunately) synonymous specifications, not with the MPEG4 / H.264 standard compliant.
Such matters may not, under an official name is not made. Therefore, this invented name AVCHD.
BlueRay has only (the original) MPEG4 / H.264AVC tested and not, for example, the high 1440, the 4:3 nor the specification of MPEG2 "hinübergerettet", but in HD is not specified.
Antwort von Jan:
When the SR 12, the logical development of the SR 1, and the HV 30 to HV 20, then I can think of who makes the race ...
The opposite is the case, the HV 30 is almost a 1:1 copy of the HV 20, tell me are here in recent times with Canon s.Bord employees?
HV 30 - the same processor (DiG! C DV II) - the same sensor (1 / 2, 7 CMOS with 2.96 million pixels)
is new, of the 2.7 inch 16:9 widescreen MultiangleVividLCD and now a black surface, it is indeed the speech of a modified / improved image processing, are the only components that remained the same - so look ...
SR 10-12 - new Processor - BIONZ, ClearVid CMOS with new technology Exmore, Dynamic Range Optimizer etc, half the electronics are new.
What exactly rauskommt s.Ende then - time will tell.
The Canon HV series but eh you can not really with the SonySR compare models, the most likely times here now clear.
Yes Sony.de once again crap built, the SR 11 & 12 have a 3.5 mm microphone input jack and a headphone output, only the manual Tonaussteuerung the GM models will be sorely missed, which had the SR 5 & 7, but 2007 has not synonymous.
AVCHD is still coming, from waiting times. Many customers are still undecided, but eventually comes to the point where you start - when you have a good HD TV sales 2006 & 2007 seen. As Canon 2008 now synonymous for more than 2 models with AVCHD offering - which now is expected to rotate.
If the price of the HF models (synonymous if they do not have viewfinders, as opposed to SonySR 11 & 12 and Canon HV 20 & 30) in the correct range, it is synonymous of Canon AVCHD benefit. At the moment still is the core business at HD Canon HDV strongly dislike, looks at Sony because the consumer is very different.
HDV is used for the average user-friendly but still retained a while, but it is a niche for an ever-smaller customers. The mass s.Leuten do not want to cut intensely as you can with blöder Media Markt and Co, not few users have synonymous with the MiniDV tape in a new high-resolution camera is a problem, no preference whether this is reasonable or not.
And the basic question - even a HDV camera for the intense post, so everything is more than trimming!
VG
Jan
Antwort von stevenk:
I read here is what 12 years of - what do you mean by that? The first HDV camcorder came in late 2004, this is just a little over 3 years ago ...
And HDV were only the expensive models and then the mass-produced goods - now at the AVC seems exactly the opposite to be ... WHY?
Antwort von WoWu:
Someone has complained that it is 6 months after the industry as AVCHD consumer devices brought out has not yet Prosumergeräte there .. I had argued that it is in MPEG2 but took 12 years until the first Prosumergeräte on the market.
Antwort von stevenk:
Someone has complained that it is 6 months after the industry as AVCHD consumer devices brought out has not yet Prosumergeräte there .. I had argued that it is in MPEG2 but took 12 years until the first Prosumergeräte on the market. That is not correct - there is AVCHD since October 2006 in the zb SonySR 1st That is until now 16 (!) Months and is not synonymous explains why, after almost 1 1 / 2 years still no prosumer cams there.
And if we are to HDV times (not MPEG2 SD!) Rüberschauen, because it was exactly the reverse - first and then the Prosumer Media Markt & Co.
And the development of the MPEG-2 codecs are interested here not - is important only the time that was required, the codec to adapt to 1080 and as long as the industry then took the decent cameras to implement - and those were definitely no 12 years.
Antwort von Jan:
It will soon give cameras, one could say AVCHD is the prosumer in the test phase.
Zb the Panasonic AG HMC 70 / 71 AVCHD shoulder camera with XLR, so I'll give the models to awaken at this moment still no 100% good impression, just like the HD 1000 of Sony.
We are of one mind that HDV is much better edit it - at the moment. If the NLE companies and the PC world is a little effort, it may indicate a turning point, which takes time.
Why did one of the big companies (Panasonic) - "We do not develop an HD format on an old tape HDV ="
VG
Jan
Antwort von stevenk:
Hello SebiG
Do not enter "Boxhorn" hunt .... usually speak only of the problems with AVCHD, which it never did ... Lucky way talking synonymous times those who have tried it - guckst you here:
http://forum.slashcam.de/viewtopic.php?p=272099 # 272099
Antwort von wolfgang:
BlueRay However the ruling that, at 16 Mbit / s no difference to the original note is longer. The test is open to the public, you can the "rubbish", the desire to write the book ... synonymous comparing the methods are published ... perhaps they have soft of your methods? Maybe yes it is justified, the difference in the outcome ....
...
Wolfgang, I do not take it amiss, but I think as more thorough testing and the less the Home Sightings and amateur observations. I think more synonymous the publications of university studies, as the playful s.heimischen trial & error NLE.
For me, there are facts and Misc. .... What do you think, what for me is one of the facts? Sometimes I think people like you have never been to a university. For starters, even scientifically worked, knows exactly how much crap in the measurement is made. So I am impressed with maximum performance, but not just any name, no preference of the Institute.
And otherwise the matter is not soo difficult - you can either make measurements and Bildifferenzen quantify, or you can view things synonymous with appropriate optical, full-HD playback Watch chains. Interestingly, these methods complement each other only, the results are usually ident
And otherwise: please carefully! I have nothing to say that one particular data s.einer no difference to the source material is more - this is clearly and completely confirmed, good AVC encoder vorrausgesetzt. I merely said that
Here are s.Testmaterial considerable quantities, and none has a quality that is of today's HDV devices would actually stand out.
Since I have nothing written of data rates, but that just today AVC devices the fundamental potential simply not lift. And that they have potential, I had so perfectly written:
And synonymous if the codec has more potential - has raised so far, no device in the consumer price class up to about 1000 Euro.
And yet I see no signs that this current rating relativize them. This does not mean that it must always remain so. And if these devices are even there, they will be judged according to content, measured and evaluated.
And to cut problems: the na been repeatedly described and documented, and was so strangely beautiful synonymous in various publications return. Here's the original:
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=4686
Conclusion: Yes, you can cut the material. And again yes, this is simply more expensive than HDV at the case. As of today.
And for the skeptics: yes, I have quite a few test projects in AVC editing ....
[/ quote]
Antwort von SebiG:
@ Wolfgang: Superior, it has the consumer device but very comfortable. Not from the optical and even less of the operation but at least there is the possibility of the data on large hard disks to store and faster than real time on the PC to copy it.
That's just a bit but still.
Antwort von stevenk:
the best prices you'll find in the price search engine!
Antwort von stevenk:
... and faster than real time on the PC to copy ... But that is synonymous everything - and the "saved" time and give you triple-double in processing it.
Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:
... and faster than real time on the PC to copy ...
But that is synonymous everything - and the "saved" time and give you triple-double in processing it. Who needs - apart of the professionals - because even a real-time transmission ... I can capture from tape always used to tell me the best clips s.Rande to write. A first sighting of the material, so to speak. Time savings for me, so close to zero.
BG, Andreas
Antwort von SebiG:
... and faster than real time on the PC to copy ...
But that is synonymous everything - and the "saved" time and give you triple-double in processing it.
Who needs - apart of the professionals - because even a real-time transmission ... I can capture from tape always used to tell me the best clips s.Rande to write. A first sighting of the material, so to speak. Time savings for me, so close to zero.
BG, Andreas Yes is quite clear. I view The material is then synonymous with the real-time transfer an advantage but it is still what you make of it all remains so themselves.
Antwort von Jan:
It is sometimes faster than you think .....
First real Semi & Profcam with AVCHD:
Antwort von wolfgang:
So I remain skeptical - limited data rates and only the existing AVCHD codec with all its limitations in Postpro .... synonymous if the camcorder housing will already be good.
Antwort von SebiG:
I am again. While there is still not much new, since the cams are still coming but in the meantime but I tend more toward the Canon HV30 or HF10. Irgentwie irritates me the 25p mode, both devices but it very much.
The HV20 has 25p (or 24p) Mode yes lowlight the presentation very much improved (at least so we read) and a "p" mode in general is yes for any shots in front of a blue or green screen perfectly.
I think that's for me then but the only times the rash SR12 all the way to the rear to make. Should the SR12 does not deliver better pictures then the Canon would be better for me.
There currently is with me even the HV30 at the top of the list, since one with HDV so as so often said, no fear in the post should have. Should the 3 Cams (SR12, HF10, HV30) in terms of image quality does not do a lot is probably the HV30.
But again for AVCHD editing. I have unfortunately not yet able to work but one thing I am still interested to improve between HDV and AVCHD to choose. I do quite like sequences in JPEG Quicktime (. Mov) format. So the question is: How do I get. M2ts ins. Mov format. If I was still neatly ivestieren must then probably the decision in favor of fixed HDV.
