Newsmeldung von slashCAM: Sense and nonsense of camcorder tests of rudi - 31 Mar 2006 21:16:00 > Sound camcorder tests are popular with everyone. However, in reality, an objective test assessment is hardly possible, as this editorial describes.
Antwort von beiti:
I find the article quite excellent. Probably we would have many more examples of the difficulties of the numerical evaluation can attach, but the basic problem is so clearly synonymous.
My ideal of test reports look like this:
Three (or more) practitioners to test a device in use and write independently detailed (!) Profiles, which will be jointly published or reprinted. How should a detailed picture of the devices tested and shown to be a useful quality than competing products - without any questionable readings and school grades.
Antwort von Konsument:
SUUUUPER!
'm Absolutely in your opinion!
I doubt some tests even if they say s.das I would not have taken place.
Should such "tests" not be made of professionals and amateurs. I can deal with my professionals have just a camera and not with the measuring instruments! A layman gernicht only comes up with the idea to make some settings!
For scoring:
Are made too few data to allow oneself to create a scoring.
It seems to me, for example, no preference whether the cassette compartment goes down or up on, or whether only an English manual is there.
For printers 0.0345 one can have more pages per minute ...?!?
BillsWeichware test in 5 days, 50 CPUs with 20 boards and 30 Graphics Cards. ALL CLEAR!
And the good people who made the super graphics card testing gets his Money of ATI, is yet to be synonymous on the stand at CeBIT
Tuh us all a favor and turn yourself with this article s.alles thing there is.
I want to make any tests bad, but consumers should learn better judging.
Antwort von wolfgang:
So for me this article not shoot anything beyond the target. Just because the measurement technology raises many issues that can not be the conclusion that we therefore simply does not measure. Such problems are in any physical measurement. Anyone who enjoyed one has technical and scientific training, and perhaps even experimentally researching and working, is next with this problem is not impressed, because he simply knows.
Facts and Figures have the disadvantage that they can easily be wrong. And therefore never to be believed uncritically. Only fools are absolutely superior readings uncritical - and is not about whether this may be true in general, what has been measured. The "power of numbers" is dangerous - but hold only if one believes s.deren supernatural, as most people make in this regard, some untrained ad hoc basis.
But numbers and figures are synonymous to the advantage of being accurate, but may have some explanatory power. And this significance, I do not want to abandon. Personally, I guess, therefore, the measurements, such as magazines such as digital still very videoaktiv simply have because it has a certain significance. To stop showing your camcorder, for example in the test on the behavior lowlight lose out, in practice synonymous diebezüglich bad qualities. Done correctly, allow a more objective measurement data very well Comparison of devices - within certain limits.
Or do we want to be only qualitatively descriptive of activity? If the optical evaluation of my lowlight capabilities not perhaps a different, than my neighbors? Or how time trying to describe with words, a color to that which a listener can accurately imagine. This is simply an impossibility.
The answer to systemimanente weaknesses of each measurement set should not be to portray them as fundamentally absurd - but should be, get this into perspective and to appreciate.
Reviews of various articles of the points while I take synonymous very little - because there flows in addition to customary metrological issues and problems synonymous personal opinion, as it points to, and what criteria should be applied.
What I think is valuable to have information on tests, such as the use of a device is. But what I think is even more valuable is if you are testing a device itself. What you should always do anyway before purchase.
Oh yes: dubious test are probably even refuse - I am referring only to serious technical tests.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
I think the contribution of Rudi good ...
Just so I am working to determine whether to offer as HC1 or HC3 HDV camcorder for my taste more pleasing picture. In search of information I have encountered in the network compared to recordings in the automatic mode, the camcorder, the succession of a certain position are taken from under mixed lighting in the interior. For me, the comparison results, which I won with the help of individual frames on a PC and HDV recording of video files in 1080i on my HD panel with the network players Pinnacle SC200 very revealing. Also, I have Außenaufnehmen (day and Tagesschwachlicht) been able to compare, but these are not the same motive and synonymous not been made under identical conditions. Still entrenched in me a certain Zwischeneindruck to the desired image quality, so now I can think about the next step, the necessary technical equipment. In addition, I am still waiting "Test Reports" of the video magazine s.and after this picture then, and physical contact with the two devices, I would take a decision not determined the price will be based on.
This is my attitude and opinion. I'm with my method on Camcorder Buying previously always gone well and have never regretted a purchase later.
Antwort von Markus:
Just because the measurement technology raises many issues that can not be the conclusion that we therefore simply does not measure. Such problems are in any physical measurement. Anyone who enjoyed one has technical and scientific training, and perhaps even experimentally researching and working, is next with this problem is not impressed, because he simply knows. There is in the chemical analysis taken a very motto: Who measures much, much measuring dung. Therefore, interpreting and evaluating the obtained numbers next to the actual measurements and a very important daily task.
For the inexperienced amateur that is certainly not an easy thing, especially if the advertising deceives completely utopian goals.
Antwort von wolfgang:
There is in the chemical analysis taken a very motto: Who measures much, much measuring dung. Therefore, interpreting and evaluating the obtained numbers next to the actual measurements and a very important daily task.
For the inexperienced amateur that is certainly not an easy thing, especially if the advertising deceives completely utopian goals. The saying I have in my technical study chemistry course taught to know as well - and the hits just exactly the point.
The unwary layman, however, has no chance to recognize the vulnerability of a series of measurements - such as the synonymous, he knows not even the details of a measuring device with such a camcorder test.
You can leave here only that the engineers who built this to extreme mess. At least with digital Videoaktiv I had been the impression that measure the druchaus reliable. Is: what was evident from the measurement data, I could (within my limited experience synonymous) observed in real devices.
Yes, the problems there are - simply because the fundamental problems in measurement technology. But one should not infer from this that the measurement technique is absolutely rejected.
Antwort von Mark Walser:
Fairs, I think supporting documents and a test well above
meaningful. However, I am interested in as a user, in fact, only the measurement results in Discern if these synonymous visible to the eye of the viewer. In my opinion, one should assess in a test, the instrument for subjective visual inspection in practical applications, and only then measuring and not vice versa.
There are things like battery life, brightness, image noise in dark situations that are clearly assessed and are then shown synonymous with readings. Others such as. the color, sharpness, different optics, however, very difficult to objectify.
Antwort von beiti:
There are things like battery life, brightness, image noise in dark situations that are clearly assessed and are then shown synonymous with readings. Somewhat like this one can measure only the battery life. Everything else is not so clear: How are weighted when determining the intensity of the increasing noise and decreasing the color saturation? If a camcorder with distinct noise better or worse than an artifact with many noise reduction?
Antwort von Acer:
If a camcorder with distinct noise better or worse than an artifact with many noise reduction? Yes you could find out but by recruiting subjects (in particular consumer or layman; rate about 20 folks), the image quality independently of each other about their impressions. First, we ask them:
1) Reports, whether you like the Picture.
1.1) If "Yes", why?
1.2) If "No", why?
2) What are you thinking on s.Picture? - Answer / Reasons
3) Do you mind a little s.Picture? - Answer / Reasons
4) What is the picture from now (at low light, but said net)? - Answer / Reasons
5) Do you Griesel / noise? Cares? - Answer / Reasons
So next, and then next ... with sound quality, etc ...
In the end, the editors compile statistics of all respondents (percentages / percentages) are synonymous and are struck by how the weighting of each Kriterirn the test persons or seemed important.
Such a test would be more complex than just a single assessment of the author. Of course, one can evaluate the technology in independent laboratories still voneinader and synonymous in the statistics as "neutral, objective test subject include".
Afterward specialists can (unaware of the opinions of lay persons) and their mustard to be taken into account.
Well, maybe it will come.
"test" (Stiftung Warentest) does something like that, only for each area (picture, sound, handling, equipment, etc.) with 1-2 and 2-3 specialists laity.
Oky,
Philip
Antwort von beiti:
Yes you could find out but by recruiting subjects (in particular consumer or layman; rate about 20 folks), the image quality independently of each other about their impressions. The only question is what the eighth. When I see my parents, for example, two film clips and ask them whose image quality is better, then comes as a response something like: "Is it in Munich? Yes, that's s.Marienplatz! Was it last summer?" :-(
Assessment by lay people is such a thing ... Either I give them very clear standards s.The hand and tell them first what are blur, noise, artifacts, etc. (but then they are not real amateurs anymore), or I get totally subjective responses. Even technical details can be perceived subjectively, so most of the laity is a man überschärfte recording will prefer a naturally coordinated focus. Or) times a totally inexperienced amateurs explain the benefits of a "kinomäßig" selective sharpness compared to a fully sharp picture (keyword P + S adapter. Such advantages are for the Normalzuschauer only in the context of a dramatic match into play, not the detached contemplation of test material.
For laymen, among the contents of a movie - and that's good. The technical differences, which we are concerned with tests which are trifles in Comparison to do so. It certainly plays a role for the laity, whether he recognizes the object, if the camera wobbles very much whether he understands spoken words, etc., but all that is known is more of a cameraman and his ability s.als used by the camcorder.
In addition, the influence of the playback device (plasma, LCD, tube, projector come ...) and the viewing distance.
So: If even subjective impressions, then bitteschön of experts.
Antwort von MattesDV:
It does not come on the people, but the collection methods ... If you choose the right method it will probably come synonymous to correct results ...
Antwort von rudi:
Hi Folks,
I had the article reingestellt more quickly when slashCAM before I was a few days without power on the road, so I can express myself about this only now s.dieser place.
Basically, I would not argue against the article with the measurement in general, but simply to point out that in all of today's tests just a lot of interpretations and inaccuracies with feed. Both we as synonymous as the videoaktiv measure a camera, for reasons of practicality in automatic mode. Anything else would simply be too costly.
I wanted to point out that reason, just simply times that come out of it simply no valid practical results, but at best rough indication of the behavior of a camera. If one still sees lie together as one suggest a XL1H and HC1 in many areas, the demand for car actually has a lot valideren measurement loud.
Only well there lies the crux, without human interpretation there are no statements. A similar problem exists in the way the codec programming: If the computer could recognize without human assistance, if the picture quality is better or worse than a comparison picture, then it would be this much next to optimize. However, image quality metrics like PSNR have merely of caveats (which is why we codecs synonymous not judge according to this value should be). It just helps only the (un) trained eye. This in turn is dependent of many factors. A test-structure of Philip, as here proposed, there is certainly a good approach. Only then can come out with a repetition of the test with other persons at any time something totally different. (Test theorist here crying out loud) after the so-called reliability.
The idea for the article came to me as it once here in the forum wanted to know whether the curved lines of the HC1 can now see, or not. A portion of the readers could do that, the other part not. And the one disturbs it, the other not.
So I think it's even very good that there are several sources, such is the videoaktiv to himself as a reader to be informed before the purchase. One should pay attention to recognize that these values are seen not as God-given, exclusive truth.
@ beiti: The noise issue, I had not synonymous in the first article, but then thought to myself, which is now too much. But very good point, since this issue in the future will certainly be much stronger. Also for the 2nd Posting 100% approval.
Personally, I just think about a test to provoke and repeatable controlled MPEG artifacts. That would certainly be necessary at the moment, eternal as the sharpness and color measurements ...
Regards
Rudi
Antwort von Steinmann:
Thank you for this honest opinion. In particular, since it undermines a certain extent synonymous Slashcam the tests.
Another aspect I would like to strongly appeal to:
the differences of one device to the same series. In particular, monitors have long been a good example. Many monitor comparison leaves me with only shake his head. For it is all free to go once the next Elekronikmarkt to monitor and consider three identical models (especially CRT) side by side.
Sometimes the picture quality is the same - sometimes synonymous but are so different that it believes it would be three different Manufacturer.
Therefore, I would be very interested to know whether slashcam not even a test could do this. Easy three equal camcorder compare with each other. Synonymous, or even a happy new TRV-950 and a 3-year-old is often used. What is happening with the quality of the time?
This is a little suggestion.
MfG
P. Steinmann
Antwort von rudi:
the differences of one device to the same series. Pretty good idea, we had the time just being considered, but it is difficult to anonymously raise several devices in the series.
It is indeed synonymous repeated rumors that the press gets especially selected devices or Manufacturers that produce the first series even more carefully. Then, if the test reports are of lower component attempts to use, and never the same device name verkauft.Konkrete evidence that we had, however, this can happen yet.
That there are variations-series devices, especially with CRTs, but that's nothing new. Only vary the size of the white stop None exactly ...
Regards
Rudi
Antwort von DjDino ( Toth Dominik):
Really very well-written article.
I have already thought of himself not the camcorder parmal tests can somehow be truly meaningful only because of different pre-adjusted Automatiken.Bei my JVC GR-DF540 eg some Test results are expressed in a rather poor picture sharpness but this is only because this is happening because the AGC very aggressive (synonymous in my view, even where not needed) switches - one does s.ist the Picture Therefore, even under good lighting conditions, which actually almost no AGC would require significantly besser.Was eg if all the camcorder-would conduct tests with AGC disabled? But can we just assume that most amateur buyers are and will remain in automatic mode, but is somehow understood to be synonymous otherwise would have to make several test runs, and this is not just the time when the next edition ner magazines and then when its finished And to make the head of the editorial time pressure, etc. What I Criticize the 3CCD synonymous with testing often highly praised-Technik.Durch the lesser of MiniDV is 4:2:0-space may be higher color resolution of unused 3CCD onehin not really about this of 4:2:2 is suitable eg Betacam formats besser.Mehr light sensitivity puts it, of course allemal.Viele analog Betacam professional television cameras, the shoulder still working with 1CCD technology and have their pictures in news & Co as bad? An offer professional services to 1CCD camcorder makes any cheap 3CCD Comsumercam platt.Das it is synonymous with excellent 1CCD JVC also showed even then with the JVC GR-PD1 which is still synonymous many 3CCD Consumercams bildqualitativ makes flat. 1CCD at the equipment (as necessary) upstream RGB primary color filter absorbs not nearly as much as macnhe meine.Viele Manufacturer Bildfschärfe also adjusted for consumer 3CCD cams only the Sharp strict filtering (before this stuff comes onto tape) so that suggests to the customer will must be the s.3CCD / soll.Die impact is known then: For unatürliche edge contours especially with strong contrasts between bright sky and hills mostly zb Regardless, most of the Mostly probably less skilled customers receive a sharpened knakig Picture and is happy . Then the thing still synonymous with the super-Optics. Leica needs to be or Carl Zeiss.Bitteschön: For semi-professional SLR digital cameras with 6 megapixels and makes more sense then certainly in s.Stillimage huge poster-size map synonymous with the finest structures closer Hinsehn beautifully sharp, color fringing, distortion, etc. avoided but at the much lower PAL Resolutionist is not really a bottleneck, even with additional Zoom.Die truth is: The camcorder manufacturers tend to have only contracts with the expensive-sounding Optiksystemzulieferern because a "Leica" or "Carl Zeiss" on the camcorder beautifully printed in bold are simply better verkauft.Der Mist is the next bright F1.2-Optics as they extol some increasingly Manufacturer - supposedly achieved through greater maximum aperture - that contribute to such a strong miniaturization, however, can not be sure verantowrtlich and then indirectly, is often synonymous disadvantages of silence.
When F-stops are always relative values which are characterized by division of Focal ergeben.Um through optical lens diameter as Consumercams and can now get their small aperture optics lens diameters to be so not through the larger aperture but reachable only by masses forced the lens system (much too simplistic to use so less lenses because each lens will cost light - not much yet). The price of this is but a few lenses, the beam paths can hold less correct or incorrect eg what to color fringes or unevenly distributed leading edge may especially the danger to Abberationsfehler increases. Sowas and more is no preference, of course, the testers, automatic transmission, it's test image before and ready.
Well all in all: that most consumer camcorder buyers are more likely to lay and lay people are lay test yet optimal or ;-)? Anyone who wants to film a serious INTERMEDIATE onehin or not reading the 0815-testing of the tobacconist next door but ordered from the Manufacturer brochures, just browse in data sheets, visit
Antwort von DjDino ( Toth Dominik):
Test pictures - JVC GR-S707Ich finde synonymous man sollte bei dem Testbereich Bildqualität mehr Vergleiche bei "Alltagsaufnahmen" machen and als voll aufgelöste 720x576-Test pictures anhängen (oder sind dazu einige zu faul oder scheuen den Server-Speicherbedarf?) Nur par Sätze wie "bei schlechten Lichtverhältnissen mehr rauschen als Model so and so..." oder blos nur ein Testchart finde ich etwas mager, schliesslich finden die eigentlichen Aufnahmen im realen statt and da kann sich jeder Camcorders synonymous wieder etwas anders verhalten was bei einem Testchart nicht so ersichtlich werden kann, z.b. bezüglich Gegenlichtkompensation, Weisabgleich oder Bewegungsschärfe.Gutes "klinisches" Abschneiden heist für mich nicht alles.Oft wird synonymous zuwenig auf das Thema "accessories" eingegangen, z.b. ob es mehr oder weniger kompatible Objektivvorsätze für das entsprechende Filtergewinde gibt oder bei Montage eines externen Mikrofones das Kamerahandlich nochimmer gut ist - z.b. einem das Micro dann nicht wahrhaft ins Auge sticht weil der Microphone-Schuh zu weit hinten angesiedelt ist oder wie die Gewichtsverlagerung dann ist.Aber wahrscheinlich glauben synonymous da die meisten Tester das das für Laien zuviel des guten ist, wenn aus dem Laien dann aber with der Zeit ein ernsthafterer Filmer wird könnte er es bereuen.Mehr sollte synonymous auf die Benutzerfreundlichkeit des manuellen Fokus eingegangen werden.Wie ich schon sagte sind dessen Controls oft sehr unpraktisch.Wenn ich z.b. im Zoo durch einen engmaschigeren Zaun auf ein Tier hindurchfilmen will wird der AF nicht selten eher den ebefalls recht kontur-verlockenden Zaun scharfstellen oder wenn bei einer vorrangigen Hintergrundszene eine unwichtige Person durch das Picture huscht der AF aufeinmal diese auf sharp macht and der Hintergrund verwischt oder der AF nicht selten gar nicht einstellbar ist (Mittenbetont,u.s.w) and mann aber bei einer Landschaftsaufnahme nicht den Baum mitten auf einer Wiese sondern die Berge dahinter sharp haben will - sowas kann dann synonymous den Laien stören - ohne gescheit-manuellen Zoom (Drehrad) ist man dann aufgeschmissen.Es sollte generell mehr auf filmpraxisbezogenes eingegangen werden.Mit "rauschärmer", "leichter Grünstich", "liegt gut in der Hand" ist es nicht getan.Ich erwarte ja nicht of den Testern das sie jetzt with jedem Test-Camcorders einen Tag in verschiedenste Szenerien and Situationen durchfilmen aber ein guter Tester müsste synonymous schon anhand der "klinischen" Camcorders-Eigenschaften gut erahnen können wie es demnach um die Filmpraxis bestellt ist. So, genug gemotzt :)
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Antwort von Holly:
Yes, indeed the tests. 100 test, 100 different results, no more need be said. One assessed image quality with 40%, the other only with 30% etc.
Anyway sometimes wonder if there is not one or the other editor of manufacturers is lubricated ".
The tests are not quite absurd, you have to stop making two or three tests and decide for yourself which are Kritierien as important. Then you have at least a good clue.
Antwort von steveb:
Sometimes synonymous, I think), especially the tests in the Konsumerzeitschriften (SFT, audio video picture serve only to confirm retrospectively the buying decision ". Since devices are a "winner" dubs, which represent only the seller a profit by only selling margins and less goes to the customer. One should again make the fun times more likely to (in MM and associates do not represent it in all) and listen to what the vendors must argue with "" ... finally, at MM ... "na Yeah. DVD is the best medium for DV editing because you have it .... yes the same even on DVD ... and it will tell you which is still synonymous Testsieger become "....
Probably in the washing machines with the highest rotational speeds ...
Antwort von Jan:
Are we to be honest, most magazines do not even professional testers. Consider the Panasonic GS 180 - has VideoAktivDigital like my thoughts on the stabilizer satisfying a given. In a variety of other magazines, the GS 180 received one Poor or Poor. Some pictures in the magazines could be seen with the 16 / 9 has been filmed.
Yes on 16 / 9 is turned off for the GS 180 of the stabilizer, which I now had the nerve to say times 99% of the test magazine did not know this, and the stabilizer made test without stabilizers.
I now am not a braggart and a sly, I tell you now, I habs synonymous previously not known at this time Model.Ich not synonymous got all instructions to study. Sowas But how can a magazine that 100,000 people pass through providing information and making false statements, and get paid for it?
The same is on the Lowlighttest between GS 280 vs. SonyHC 94, the Lowlightbild was significantly better in some mags 94th at HC Why?
Yes because the testers have reingeworfen the Slowshutter (An), where the Sonysynonymous has longer shutter speeds than 1 / 50 (except the Pana night program) auto dialing, and thus makes even clearer in the Picture, at a pressure of a test image in the photo size is not synonymous since been taken on whether 1 / 50 or 1 / 25.
But this is not fair you should have checked by Comparison chamber data during playback of the tape, if selected, both the models eg 1 / 50 sec, Aperture 1.8 and 12 or 16 DB gain. I can not interject synonymous with GS 280 easy night program to proceed at a hotel owned Stillimage a brighter recording.
VG
January
Antwort von werner sternath:
Without tests, it is very hard for everyone the right to find problems to find and solve. And so I think slashcam an excellent portal for all those who want information.
such tests Camera
Despite all of it and re-testing of camera is for me very well as a meaningful meiningen vie to read, because for one thing, it must be a small HDV camcorders, dvd quality is sufficient for the other, that sound like a top, another good photo feature , one would like to shoot from the hip with a swivel-top big monitor, another is to verwacklungssicherer on the shoulder, etc., etc.
all that sure will not happen without private tests and experiences??
sincerely werner Sternath
Antwort von -ssSonyY-:
I find the article quite excellent. Probably we would have many more examples of the difficulties of the numerical evaluation can attach, but the basic problem is so clearly synonymous.
My ideal of test reports look like this:
Three (or more) practitioners to test a device in use and write independently detailed (!) Profiles, which will be jointly published or reprinted. How should a detailed picture of the devices tested and shown to be a useful quality than competing products - without any questionable readings and school grades. ABSOLUTELY!
Antwort von werner sternath:
I find the article quite excellent. Probably we would have many more examples of the difficulties of the numerical evaluation can attach, but the basic problem is so clearly synonymous.
My ideal of test reports look like this:
Three (or more) practitioners to test a device in use and write independently detailed (!) Profiles, which will be jointly published or reprinted. How should a detailed picture of the devices tested and shown to be a useful quality than competing products - without any questionable readings and school grades.
ABSOLUTELY! I do not know if this the right away
I think forums such as slashcam and super important because there are difficulties a lot of opinions and questions that are answered here
sincerely werner Sternath
google my homepage werner Sternath
read here gibts addition to the funny pictures and movies
Antwort von Fenek:
That is synonymous with excellent 1CCD JVC also showed even then with the JVC GR-PD1 which synonymous today many 3CCD Consumercams bildqualitativ makes flat. Thus synonymous my impression!
Fits exactly!
Unfortunately, I've made the grad, and looking for something new.
Not easy
hab grad ne Canon XH-A1 here ...
When I look at the quality ..
If yes oki,
JVC creates ne synonymous as grad still
especially in the dark inside-Zoom ... da ne 3 CCD from drinking!
what I really annervte:
additional hours for video editing, rendering, and the constant transformation that justifies nothing compared to the "acquired" image quality.
I am not a professional,
WÜD happy to invest a little more
But (not the window dressing everything new is better) because ....
And yes, of course, forums are important.
Grüssle .....
Antwort von werner sternath:
I think your article is not bad but without Camera gehts halt tests do not, and especially not apply the same criteria for all.
for there must be a small HDV camcorders, dvd quality is sufficient for the other, that sound like a top, another good photo feature, like the one from the hip with a swivel-top shooting big monitor, another is on the verwacklungssicherer shoulder, etc., etc.
And all this without private tests and experiences??
sincerely werner Sternath
Antwort von Guido 1:
Hello!
I'm rather limited in this area. But perhaps even interested synonymous times the opinion of a "non-specialists"??
If I want to buy something I do not know, I inform myself well in advance, especially if it is a purchase that goes beyond the simple framework - one wants to even suffer any shipwreck. Depending of what I want to spend in the specific case, I then look to the tests and personal assessments. I attach special attention to the things that are important to me in exactly this case.
What are they, then, for me, this camcorder testing? Makes sense, I would say. I can find out about the latest technology and my focus on what is important to me. I am - and now generally not meant for camcorder - a very important matter, I will soon have the best of what there is. Is it too expensive, I'll take the best that I can get for it, so expect more than my wallet.
In other words, I peck me out of the test, what I care about and are therefore of tests for me always makes sense. This then is synonymous for your camcorder.
That which is not dealt with in the article so everything would be too detailed for me personally because I'm just in this area is rather limited. On other matters, I would again be glad to be able to learn such details.
Love Greetings
Guido 1
Antwort von domain:
If I want to buy something I do not know, I inform myself well in advance, especially if it is a purchase that goes beyond the simple framework - one wants to even suffer any shipwreck.
Shipwreck anyway, there are times when none of the marketable Manufacturer. It's certainly not so that a model provides the Mist and other super pictures. With each camcorder the same price range you can make super photos, provided you understand the "shooting" s.sich what.
Antwort von Guido 1:
Domain Hello!
Excuse me, maybe I expressed myself as something bad. But must, I think if anyone - whatever their price range - has some ideas about what his future device may, where he also lays special emphasis on it, but ultimately purchased Camera those expectations are not, or does not do justice to the full, then you suffer just a shipwreck. That there are differences, yes, to prove the test results and the reviews of other synonymous, partly of people who are familiar (or at least) seems good.
I hope I was able to qualify.
Love Greetings
Guido 1
Antwort von musk74:
Hello!
my opinion after a testbericht can only be a certain constant, the user who would like to grow a new cam, check the functions and facilities to.
Many buyers of the eight test results and keep them for the ne plus ultra for sale, and are urgently needed.
But who are these user who buy a cam according to test results? mostly those without the experiences and knowledge with little about camcorders.
in the test are as synonymous always expensive and the cheaper the good, the bad ones. so it is here and elsewhere synonymous.
for the prosumer arises naturally everything is different dar.
He has some ideas what it needs and what he wants. he also has experiences with other cams, and knows what a good image quality is and how they are assessed. etc. ..
an example:
all hold the Panasonic HVX 200 for a cam with a poor lowlight ratio and a somewhat ner for comparison with soy ex1 so or not so well-resolution cam. the test says yes synonymous.
None says why the HVX 200 produces fantastic colors!
in comparison with sony `s ex models more beautiful.
The first is the HVX 200 varicam all the formats and realized that with a fantastic film look without unrivaled in the price segment?
Why say that the HVX in the ninth test 200 native recording and cut so the images synonymous allows a relatively weak computer?
None says so why can Aufehmen HVX 200 in dvc pro 50 in 4:2:2 and delivers a picture quality that is exceptional and only be achieved schulterklopfern of much more expensive.
So once all honesty. test or not.
the layman needs him to find safety in his decision to.
benefit because of the time looking over it and wonder.
michael
Antwort von Jan:
Hello you,
I was shocked this week, because a customer brought back a Panasonic SDR S 26. Reason - a test magazine put this camera to last place! The customer had not even unpacked the camera, but returned to their original packaging. Statement "I do not want to, because XYZ Magazine had awarded her the last place".
Sowas I can not understand how easily people Tame.
When testing the camera itself and finds weaknesses - with whom life can not be - is a perfect return ok, but please do not so.
According Videoaktiv the SDR S 26 is the test winner for Canon FS 200 is the best camera and not very well off. The great stabilizer of the S 26 can be assessed at higher zoom very well.
@ Michael - that's it. Customers want to make any mistakes, so these problems.
I myself sell well), the JVC MS 90 (Last in Videoaktiv with some slight sound problems, Lowlight and stabilizer weakness and not a customer brings the camera back, because the mass difference of 50 to 55% did not exercise.
VG
January
Antwort von Quadruplex:
I was shocked this week, because a customer brought back a Panasonic SDR S 26. Reason - a test magazine put this camera to last place! The customer had not even unpacked the camera, but returned to their original packaging. Statement "I do not want to, because XYZ Magazine had awarded her the last place". Ouch!
Where one moves with the current economic situation have asked if the guy is really that stupid or is just looking for 'nen smokescreen ...
Antwort von Jan:
No, I have these clients on a daily basis to identify even the Magazine (; And it's true).
And yes, people constantly come into the shop, the judge still positive, a digicam for the highest resolution.
For a long time it was thought that there are some bad seller, no, I tend to think less, 2-3 times I have to justify s.Tag why the an 8 million pixel camera make better pictures than a 12 million pixel camera with the same sensor surface (and this) is in principle always overlooked.
This applies particularly to the Mediterranean to customers, this customer group Sonyof is vornerein better than Canon and Panasonic and Made in China "has (no chance, although some Sony models) are synonymous manufactured there.
VG
January
Antwort von Soulfly:
Hello,
I find the article very well, for several reasons. I work as a cutter for the NDR and get a variety of formats delivered on a daily basis, of IMX, Digibeta to DV and HDV is all there. Often we have for our pieces of a small DV-mill addition that makes those shots, which are too dangerous for the thick camcorder / etc. to be closely.
Course needs to be color-corrected the DV material, but in the end I can say for image control (and for that we have enough options), it is really very rare that mixed footage was used. At most times in the clippings, you know, where DV has its weaknesses.
But much more important what I think is the subjective impression Picture in direct Comparison of DV and professional formats, which in my opinion, is marginal (mind you, I try to, with) to see the eyes of the viewer. It shows again that the end user does not nunmal with pixel magnifier and measuring techniques, but with his own eyes and his gut feeling. This fact has to be right. Ultimately it is our work to the story being told is. And for all the technique in love-I see rather have a DV movie with heart and mind, as a meaningless gloss production.
And I look forward to my "new" used FX1, despite the "blur", lack of XLR connectors, etc. I like to think I have my own opinion, but some tests are safe orientation in the technology jungle.
When asked, in my opinion, creative solutions to make the best of the situation get / Technology.
As a suggestion: make it with professionals / lay people to test out the advertising-three consecutive identical images of different cameras, which they did not know before. I want to believe me, there's certainly one or two surprises ...
So stay, always nice loose
Gruß Matthias
Antwort von Jan:
Many users would never even tell the difference - correct.
A fairly significant amount s.Usern (which often complain about), the cameras raised synonymous never had in his hand, something special blabber of an Internet user to easily.
VG
January
Antwort von WoWu:
But Mattias, if that is really true that you rate the images according to visual impression, then why are you doing in 1080?
There are now associations so as audience surveys of thousands of spectators, with the result that 720p50 is better assessed than 1080th
(The largest of the BBc and the University of Cologne, for ZDF).
Or maybe you still pixel count? Like the buyer in Jan?
Antwort von Soulfly:
But Mattias, if that is really true that you rate the images according to visual impression, then why are you doing in 1080?
There are now associations so as audience surveys of thousands of spectators, with the result that 720p50 is better assessed than 1080th
(; The largest of the BBc and the University of Cologne, for ZDF).
Or maybe you still pixel count? Like the buyer in Jan If you mean why I bought the FX1? Simply because you fit into my budget (; similar to Guido next 1 above) and I wanted to have an HDV cam, the moment is affordable for me. Sure I would have liked what made synonymous progressive, but what a HDV camera for 1400, - with the functionality of the FX1 has to offer that? Yes, I still need synonymous Tripod, etc.
I do not see this so close, now is not the first time demonstrate the FX1, and then we'll schaun.
Lieben Gruß, Matthias
Antwort von ruessel:
There are now associations so as audience surveys of thousands of spectators, with the result that 720p50 is better assessed than 1080th http://www.film-tv-video.de/newsdetail.html?&tx_ttnews [tt_news] = 37,715
There are always some voices who doubt that the Resolutiondes eye even more than 1,280 x 720 pixels on a display of 46-inch could distinguish category. This one refers to a study in the Research Department at the BBC in 2004, 18 volunteers at a distance of 6 m in front of a 17-inch CRT monitor was set to detect resolution differences. This experimental setup, the authors acknowledge that one of the study followed the requirements of an eye clinic. A synonymous halfway modern display and a reasonable viewing distance in this study certainly played no role. The BBC itself seems to work quite this large margin with regard to any event where it is accepted for the HD production 1080s-only material and synonymous sent. I do not see this so close, now is not the first time demonstrate the FX1, and then we'll schaun. Have fun with it. We were there at the Hanover Fair, and had everything FX1 + Z1 material even continues through the Resolutionfiel at test screenings markedly.
Antwort von deti:
It is a pity that in the consumer area, 720p50 is not available. Although the technical complexity of this is not any bigger, it seems the 720p50 mode, a unique feature of being the (semi) professional camcorder.
At the same time producing more and more frequently (for Internet platforms such as Vimeo and YouTube), which has prevailed now 720p25/30. Because it ultimately does not matter whether you delivering 1080i50 or 720p50, as the deinterlacing easier by the line loss and a higher refresh rate would be noticed only in slow motion.
For me is to be expected that the long term is introduced in both the broadcast as synonymous in the IPTV sector 1080p50/60. Whether you why today is expected to produce in 1080i50 or 720p50, depends in my opinion after much of the application. In heavily moving image content such as sports would I prefer in any case, 720p50, synonymous if the target format 1080i50. To succeed, the better slow motion and the loss of sharpness is acceptable, especially the least-optics can actually resolve 1080 lines.
Deti
Antwort von Axel:
I do not see this so close, now is not the first time demonstrate the FX1, and then we'll schaun.
Have fun with it. We were there at the Hanover Fair, and had everything FX1 + Z1 material even continues through the Resolutionfiel at test screenings markedly. The complete story? You have been rotated with multi-camera, of which the other (s) (probably a) EX (s). Was it so? Makes me wonder then not. Even of HDV FX-1 and XH-A1 can not cut it as 1080 in the same timeline. As 720p is then quite good.
The "Test
vorführung" suggests s.eine beamer projection. I still have a DVD (with the VX 2000 rotated) of the Sony Road show, May would have been approximately 2005 (or 2004, I no longer war-together), was presented at the FX-1. Your Picture has been thrown on a broad canvas about 5m, and I remember how I groaned, because everything was full interlace blinds as soon as the camera work stolid defiance something moving. Later, we have often thrown out of the 1080i to 720p25 generated three times as wide screens. It is quite clear that 1080p of the EX (especially over HD-SDI) looks
much better.
I'm glad to have the FX-1 was not purchased on your own. It is a good camera for DVD production, would be okay for 720p, but of course it's stupid to have to deinterlace each time, and it is not 100%. HD has for me auto to be progressive, the sensitivity against the "i" mush seems to have increased somewhat.
Antwort von ruessel:
The complete story? Fortunately not, but some archive material. Especially at wide scenes in nature.
You have been rotated with multi-camera, of which the other (s) (probably a) EX (s). Yes, in the 1080 timeline will be a lot of Canon XHA1 and a little less SonyEX1, for some special scenes Hv20/30 Canon and Canon HF100.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Ruessel
.... Perhaps at the bbc are not enough volunteers, many studies have been questioned (; safe the marketing department of a manufacturer, because the result did not fit) and was synonymous perhaps the reason why the zdf own study s.der Cologne University has been commissioned, interviewed at the
3000 non-specialists and 875 specialists were. Nor has the material from different genres together set.
The result is
identical with the one of the bbc .... So what you wanted us with your posting just say?
Antwort von handiro:
I think the article is good and important. Of the responses has fallen from me the NDR cutter s.besten :-)
In the end, it ALWAYS comes on the content! Since even a mobile phone movies can be even more valuable than a Varicam filmed swamp warbler with depth of field of Discovery / BBC.
Nevertheless, I read because I like to test some features may not soon find out in the store. Therefore, the tests are so inaccurate they may be synonymous for me is always a help. If I as an HD cam search, which makes the dark, especially in still good pictures, such tests have been crucial for me.
In this respect: with the next test, thanks for the imprecision note, I can live with that because I gehts pixelpeeping not about price but about usability, Connections, light intensity, weight, reliability, handling, servicing, etc. ..
And to WoWu: I film for years in 720p ONLY :-)
Antwort von WoWu:
I film for years in 720p ONLY :-) Good decision. We are synonymous for 6 years.
Antwort von deti:
We are synonymous.
Deti
