With 25p True Full-HD or how to decipher marketing buzzword
Newsmeldung von slashCAM: Februar 2007
With 25p True Full-HD or how to decipher marketing buzzwordof rudi - 19 Feb 2007 18:59:00 > At least with the announcement of the new Canon HV20 was completely confused: There was talk of TrueHD, perhaps 25p and meant we had brash claims that even the HV10 already mastered these things. Time for a few explanatory words ...
Antwort von beiti:
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It allows synonymous with 1/50s exposure time as a progressive recording fullscreen. This is actually a real 35mm camera-like, but only every second funfzigstel second. The rest of the Bewegungsinformaton falls under the table, so the picture will appear jerky.
This is just for film cameras, the aperture blades of most film cameras working Hellsektor with 180 ° and 180 ° Dark Sector, ie at 24 fps, each Picture 1 / 48 second exposure and then the window film for the next 1 / 48 seconds in order to transport film darkens. Movie jerky So - technically - just as - progressive video with 1 / 50 second exposure time. However, most know film cameramen with the problem good deal.
Antwort von Olya:
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However, most know film cameramen with the problem of good deal
? To my knowledge, is but the projection in each Picture Movies shown twice to the movement to get merger ... what the camera people have to do? In addition, jerky or flickering in the Picture Film viewfinders in cameras only, precisely because of the current aperture. The Picture can be seen and then not, etc. Corrected me if I am wrong ...
Antwort von beiti:
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To my knowledge, is but the projection in each Picture Movies shown twice to the movement to merge ...
But this has with the recording and motion resolution to do nothing. flicker is a playback problem, the motion resolution (bucking), however, a recording problem.
Antwort von Debonnaire:
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The Canon HV10 is only 25p with a condition: If the exposure time 1/25s or longer.
How are 25 frames / second, if this ever more than 1 / 25 seconds to be exposed? So in the style: 25 * 1 / 10 second = 1 seconds?
Quote:
Anders (obviously), the new HV20: It allows synonymous with 1/50s exposure time as a progressive recording fullscreen. [...] However, only every second funfzigstel second. The rest of the Bewegungsinformaton falls under the table, so the picture will appear jerky.
Every 2nd Fünzigstelsekunde a full record is perfect but just the 25 progressive images per second. Simple, unlike in the earlier quoted part, not with 1 / 25 second (or longer * lol *) exposed, but with the usual video 1 / 50 second. Since jerky nothing more or less than the normal 25P video!
Antwort von Axel:
Hats off, Debonnaire! Do two "mirrors" in a harmless items found, most probably the only scatters have taken note. Well, because he is pretty flaky glossig-written, and you think: Damn interesting buzzword these encrypted! Two times three makes four, and three leaders widewidewitt nine ...
Antwort von Debonnaire:
Yep, Axel ...
Supposedly competent daherkommenwollende articles in this locker style, fall on me and therefore make me more accurate hinlesen.
Thank you for your compliment!
Antwort von beiti:
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not with 1 / 25 second (or longer * lol *) exposed, but with the usual video 1 / 50 second. Since jerky nothing more or less than the normal 25P video!
The bucking but more visible, because then the motion blur removed. Known negative example: in "Gladiator" (Russell Crowe), the fight scenes are pretty stroboskopartig because they appear with a small Hellsektor (= short exposure time) were recorded. While shooting stills from such a beautifully sharp, but the flow is disrupted. If 3D-rendered animations, will be specially Bewegungsunschärfe added. Here you can choose which shutter speed to be simulated. Theory is a "seamless" imaging while the smooth motion shots, but it's only the theory and not on any long periods of low or picture consequences. The widespread view, 1 / 25 seconds exposure was the optimum for 25p, I do not agree. The motion blur is so large that it acts like a Nachzieheffekt; the smallest Kameraruckler makes equal the whole picture blurred. There is a slight bucking more pleasant. Not in vain dream of the pioneers of digital cinema of long procedures with a progressive 60 frames per second. When the times comes, the audience will be inspired, but the technicians will again say "looks like after the video." ;)
Antwort von Axel:
"beiti" wrote:
Not in vain dream of the pioneers of digital cinema of long procedures with a progressive 60 frames per second. When the times comes, the audience will be inspired, but the technicians will again say "looks like after the video." ;)
This looks to be video, and a bucking None missing. The main disadvantages of conventional cinemas are poor movement and a contrast resolution scale, which is not to be fully. The stronger the light output of the projector, the brighter will be the "sun", but synonymous "black" (the highest density of all three pigment layers on the carrier as a relief to see) is penetrated. With digital projection is for "black" is simply not an image point is projected. The old myth that we are 24 B / s for beautiful, because there is a viewing is with a higher frame rate of the past. With a Picture on glare, as with prisms instead of the current aperture since many years, is to the interlace method achieves a similar effect, and a cinema screen looks like a giant from Television. It is not the frequency, look for the video are mainly responsible for the half.
Antwort von beiti:
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The old myth that we are 24 B / s for beautiful, because there is a viewing is with a higher frame rate of the past.
I hope so synonymous. It is the movie purists but not prevent, new procedure. It starts already so, that some people the proper state of digital image projectors complain because they are jumping the Picture "to the movies with it."
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It is not the frequency, look for the video are mainly responsible for the half.
I do not know really, I should be the first with my own eyes in the Comparison view. I have always assumed that the video look one of the higher resolution and other movement of the different contrast curves come. However, one look at video but mainly s.eine picture tube. The Picture impression, the (converted to frames) fields on a flat screen or projector to achieve, is again very different. That should be synonymous depend on how the fields are processed.
Antwort von HeikoS:
"Axel" wrote:
It is not the frequency, look for the video are mainly responsible for the half.
Please give me a link to any treatise on that conclusion.
Antwort von Axel:
"HeikoS" wrote:
"Axel" wrote:
It is not the frequency, look for the video are mainly responsible for the half.
Please give me a link to any treatise on that conclusion.
I did not. "Video look" is not easily comprehensible concept. I do know how video images natively on a CRT TV and look like after deinterlacing to 50p on a calculator. The recordings are the same, with - of the amount of motion information based - the same values. If you say, you both feel the same, how can you argue there next? We were in another thread ever s.diesem point. Let's just say this: I believe that no method of interlacing motion resolution, which corresponds to the natural perception.
The largest effects, which we look at the cinema seems especially liked (or we simply have become accustomed over the decades) are, in ascending order from insignificant to significant:
3. Greater tonal range and contrast of the film emulsion to digital Picture (probably will be soon in favor of the Digibildes align, but it is not so). 2. The aforementioned motion blur, which, as correctly pointed out, in animation and special effects (with difficulty) will be added to just about the 1 / 50 second standard exposure time of the 180-degree semicircle aperture of the camera to simulate. Video cameras can yes, when Aperture, sensor sensitivity and Lighting allow much shorter exposure and thus the movement "to" appear to be sharp. 1. The game with the reduced depth of field: Our mickrigkleinen sensor chips deliver, unfortunately, a very large depth of field, which is precisely the ENG-style shows. With film cameras (35mm vorallem course or even larger) is the depth of massively reduced, what s.sich the shooting, a lot of extremely demanding (Without Focus Puller measure and runs as practically nothing!), But a pleasant and composed vorallem Picture Allowed .
In the film projection, the 24 images per second today, incidentally by a circulating Prism (formerly a sector aperture) depending again interrupted 2-3 times, so that a normally Flimmerfrequenz of 48-72 frames / second requires. In actual 24 frames per second would even the human eye perceive flicker. We are thus, in deed and truth, always three identical "pictures" forecast, and not a real river! The 50 fields / second video of inerlaced bring it just synonymous to 50 Filmmereinheiten per second.
Antwort von aaron:
Somebody get the 50p format of the JVC-HD250 PRO explain? These are but 50 or full? Blos because in the article is there is no HDV camera which can.
Antwort von Axel:
"aaron" wrote:
Somebody get the 50p format of the JVC-HD250 PRO explain? These are but 50 or full?
Yes, as it looks. How Debonnaire writes that are smaller depth and a greater dynamic range of the positive aspects of the ominous "film look". The 25p (24p makes her the effect of no difference), we are familiar from the movies, so we forgive the Cams, the motion poorer resolution. With this camera so JVC has a consistent step. A pity that it is so unwieldy. Also, the format initially probably only be viewed on computers (?). But I am sure that this nails with heads are and that with time other manufacturer to follow suit.
Antwort von beiti:
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The 25p (24p makes her the effect of no difference), we are familiar from the movies, so we forgive the Cams, the motion poorer resolution.
That's right. If you have a camcorder with 25p-setting and switches in operation (I had a Canon XM1 times that this had its own switch), appalled over the bucking motions and say "that's not so in movies." Also, the video-testers are always clean and make it false conjecture (see above). But if you focus on feature film DVDs reviewed the motions, we find that the very same bucking.
Antwort von Valentino:
"Axel" wrote:
... Shame that it is so unwieldy. Also, the format initially probably only be viewed on computers (?).
So I think now is not the JVC cameras are bulky. I have most of the camera men, rather the contrary is one that is just the JVC is the only camera in HDV is reserved you would buy. The new HD200 Series is so well balanced that with a large V-Mount Battery focus camera exactly in the center. Even the handling of almost all knobs and switches s.dem usual place. The JVC cameras to an ambitious amateur filmmakers (not personally take) too bulky, it is indeed understandable. The videos in the 50p mode, you can with the HDV recorder via HDMI without s.ein Bidlschirm with HDMI input can be connected. You should only make sure that the television or projector synonymous showing 50Hz natively.
Antwort von PowerMac:
This can None.
Antwort von Valentino:
"PowerMac" wrote:
This can None.
So the computer monitor with 50Hz have a problem is well known, but for television equipment that is not the case because most of these yes Pal 50i material to 50p material conversions, so can almost every X-whichever Television. Personally, I have tried it with a few current Panasonic plasmas and Sharp LCD devices.
Antwort von PowerMac:
But that is not natively anyway, because all the internal work with 60 Hz.
Antwort von Valentino:
"PowerMac" wrote:
But that is not natively anyway, because all the internal work with 60 Hz.
Sorry that's rubbish in cans, one in Europe purchased LCD or plasma TV is natively as 50Hz and can be synonymous with no problem with the frequency 60Hz and 75Hz even work. Quite aside, it is an LCD or plasma panel totally no preference with what frequency it is applied as long as the electronic image device supports it. An example would be of Samsung and Toshiba 100Hz LCD devices, which must be respected, the 100Hz is more of a commercial gimmick and did not have the same advantage as with a CRT device. Even new appliances in the U.S. can YUV cable PAL pictures show what it is, which makes it as synonymous with YUV to HDMI, there is no difference between PAL and NTSC are.
Antwort von Eva Maier:
@ Valentino
Should perhaps again with how much research hz LCD Television internal work.
/ E
Antwort von Valentino:
404ERR
Antwort von Eva Maier:
@ Valentino In times where people in the industry speaks of global players, as things grow halt everywhere together. Zb Sonykauft its panels of Samsung, Philips is well known, together with LG. What is essentially different is the software.
/ E
Antwort von Axel:
"Eva Maier" wrote:
Should perhaps again with how much research hz LCD Television internal work.
When I is below specifications Beiheft> energy: 100-240 VAC 50/60 Hz alternating current, and under the picture repetition frequency: 50/60/70/75 Hz - Which seems to indicate that the current internal frequency can be adjusted. About Composite and HDMI are PAL and PAL 60 possible (up to 720p and 1080i) over DVI between 60 and 75 Hz
Antwort von ThomasSV:
Moin! The topic I would like to get rid Newbie question: What looks better: 1. 1080i/50 record and s.Calculator highly expected to 1080p/50 (ie resolution victims) or 2. 1080p/25 in the same record? (ie, accept a little more bucking)
Output medium is an LCD, the issue falls from flicker. (possibly synonymous beamer, but there's probably hang of the technique, which disturbs more)
Background is the question whether the 25p mode of the HV20 (at 1 / 50 shutter speed) is worthwhile.
Thank you!
Thomas
Antwort von toffi211:
The movie comes to your style. If you like the movies smoth down from Tripod Films and beautiful things, only the background moves, 25p is your choice. If you have your cam but more so to have fun to capture snapshots or something for family entertainment to film, or you more on screen quite fast movements or slow ausbist take prefer 50i. 50i is unfortunately not as sharp as 25p and the motion blur estethische missing. I personally filme 25p.
Antwort von PowerMac:
"Debonnaire" wrote:
Quote:
The Canon HV10 is only 25p with a condition: If the exposure time 1/25s or longer.
How are 25 frames / second, if this ever more than 1 / 25 seconds to be exposed? So in the style: 25 * 1 / 10 second = 1 seconds? (...)
Only very late, but still wrong. Slashcam has quite clearly here. The exposure time is independent of the behavior of the CCD readout. The exposure time can be in the HV10 1 / 10 second. You can expose synonymous 15 minutes and still be recorded with 25p.
