Frage von huftier:
Hi,
I hope the question has not been asked umpteen times (but had the good tutorials and read synonymous used to search).
The following is my problem:
I want to have a camera and a micro buy, use: Audio - and video podcasts, interviews. While the podcasts of a professional speaker to be overdubbed, the interviews with the Micro recorded.
When the cameras I Pendle between the Panasonic NV-GS 500EG and the Canon HV30, which cost roughly in a similar league are. I am still unsure whether I want to HDV.
When Micro I choose a very high-quality Sennheiser MD46 decided that, at least according to Sennheiser for interviews and features is designed.
Now my question (s):
Can I use the above-mentioned micro sog safely operate your camcorder (with an adapter, XLR to RCA)? I have Sennheiser AND at Panasonic appealed to me but both can not do much to tell - what it is that I lack expertise in audio technology synonymous not accurate (re) issue can be derived.
The Sennheiser Support asked me to "input" s.Camcorders and whether the rules could be (you can not, according to Panasonic Support). Now I'm just puzzled ...
Second question: Is my equipment for the purpose of a good choice? I Pendle between the cameras and do not know really whether I of 3CCD Panasonic or the Canon should ... The budget (for all) at around 1300-1500 euro, including MicroStation and tripod (I've already selected).
Antwort von WoWu:
Hello ungulate
As I see it, the MD46 is a dynamic Microphone, None requires a power supply.
If your camcorder has a microphone input, you can use it synonymous. Unless it is already an asymmetric microphone input (RCA), the supply is not synonymous for a Microphone it.
The MD46 is built symmetrically s.Output, Eighth So that you have a "leg" of the microphone output synonymous with "Ground" connect.
Antwort von huftier:
Thank you for the prompt reply! Then I will probably arrange Micro.
With the cameras, I am not sure - I think a little s.die of Canon HV30 or s.eine SonyHC5/7/9, all priced close s.der "older" Panasonic NV GS500, which "only" SD can ...
If I decide it just might ... : - /
Antwort von huftier:
Another addendum:
Just called the Sennheiser Support s.and I'm stumped again.
The supporter said to me something of damping resistance and something that you should connect s.Masse etc., also, he repeated again with the matter vigorously with voltage, you should dampen the recorder and that the Micro would be otherwise silent - only the station.
Just as it looks, I must try the ... : - /
Antwort von WoWu:
Hello
Since you do not get mad .... with a dynamic microphone are you doing little wrong. Put a "leg" to ground and finally it asymmetrically over at RCA.
Such camcorder (not that I now have the data sheets compatriots) usually have no voltage on the jacks. The more you find in XLR connectors.
Also, I see no reason for attenuation for a dynamic micro.
This is not really breaking new ground, because what you enter.
Antwort von Jollitop:
Show you look there:
Antwort von RKD:
allso mal im ernst, Sennheiser MD 46 is of course great, but then you should have a CameraLink synonymous, which has XLR sockets. With mini-jack to XLR adapter will not go without Störgeräuche. Each cable motion, you will then, with record "
Then it would also have to clarify whether you have no "starters" saying synonymous phantom enough power to say s.kommt volume, since no camera-related gain control is possible.
From experience, I would experience, in the proposed combination of you more of a capacitor Micro 89, - euro for example. T-bone recommend.
Then comes the sound of at least .......
mfg
Reinhold
Antwort von WoWu:
Then it would also have to clarify whether you have no "starters" saying synonymous phantom enough power to say s.kommt volume, since no camera-related gain control is possible. The power supply has a microphone in the first approach with the Nutzpegel nothing to do.
Dynamic microphones generate the so-called standard pressure level, measured s.der impedance of the microphone relative to the input impedance of the input amplifier.
With "appetizers" (where the notion comes from synonymous) increases nothing.
With a camcorder with Chinchbuchse is assumed that he had no power supply for the Microphone keeps.
Asymmetry your cable and you do not let $ 200 expensive adapter boxes aufschwatzen, a dynamic microphone with a supply to which, though dynamic mics need no power supply ... and generate output level, with which you first received your amplifier übersteuerst.
And if the proposal makes to the Microphone actually a camcorder with XLR inputs better fit, then this may well be, but slightly s.der the problem of the thread starter over.
Even the argument that one would Asymmetrierung in the grip of the connection is pure noise reinforce nonsense.
The symmetry of a line amplifier effect solely on the electric or Electromagnetic susceptibility of synonymous and usually only after considerable cable lengths are used.
Antwort von Dr. Walter Gesierich:
Hello poor ungulate,
I want you get a few tips, because I experience some problem with your microphone've collected, and I s.den previous answers to see that many a little bit right, but the big connection still missing.
1. You want to bring 2 worlds together: Professional Microphone (Sennheiser MD 46, dynamically balanced XLR connector) and a consumer camcorder as Panasonic GS 500 (unbalanced 3.5 mm TRS input). With a cable adapter, with just the wires are suitable zusammengelötet which unfortunately is not, or so bad that only crap comes out.
(The tip with the "one of the two poles of the balanced XLR cable with the 3 pole (No. 1 = Ground = Ground) combine is factually correct, otherwise absolutely no sound on, but it works only for mixing with a drin have decent pre-amp)
2. Why work is not so simple? Because the dynamic microphone that you've suggested, very "quiet", so the mere output of 2.0 mV / Pa output (I have the Sennheiser nachgeschaut catalog), while virtually all consumer camcorder (I know our Video Club Camcorders Panasonic GS-400) a very bad mic inside have a very high input voltage requires (30 - 50 mV / Pa). mV / Pa in the data sheets of the microphones is, how many millivolts microphone coil sends s.den times, when the barometric pressure (= volume of the sound source) of 1 Pascal meets on the membrane. Even if you use the camcorder with manual select options from the menu to post the highest gain (which is already vastly increased the noise), comes with the MD 46 for an interview only a mere Nutzpegel's on tape. And if you get the level back then, on average, raise the computer again, remains almost exclusively Noise and hum left. Brummen because your camcorder only has unbalanced inputs, and the longer (in meters) cable and the electric-magnetic fields of our environment is exposed, the worse the hum.
That's why professionals use fundamentally balanced microphones and cables, where the wanted on 2 different wires on the trip will be, and is exactly in phase by 180 degrees so that the disturbances are interspersed in the following exactly symmetrical preamplifier extinguish.
Solve your problem:
1. lowest: an electret buy. Sennheiser synonymous calls this "dauerpolarisiertes Microphone". The need is a 1.5-volt battery, but mostly from an ordinary Nutzspannung (look in the datasheet). The Sennheiser e664 is for example an idle-free field transmission factor of 32 mV / Pa. There are still many other microphones of this type with a cheap name.
2. minimally more expensive (39.00 euros), but very flexible: the portable audio mic pre Hitec mobile 2nd There is as far as I know him only for the big shippers Music Music Production www.musik-produktiv.de/hitec-audio-premobile-2.aspx.
He is very small 13x13x5 cm, you can submit it with the belt clip to hang s.den waistband, needs a 9-volt battery.
An absolutely any Microphone (dynamic or electret, even for condenser microphones, switchable, the 48-volt power supply needed).
The whole thing still synonymous in stereo and even with a switchable limiter. I did a few years ago paid for 59,00 Euro, now there's the fact of 39,00 Euro including VAT.
And I have it in comparison to my sündteuren Studiovorverstärkern tested only minimally more noise and only a little worse sound. You can actually order sendereif concerts with 2 microphones in stereo recording.
With you can Gainreglern the output level exactly to the needs of your camcorder adjustment, no matter what Microphone vorndranhängt.
The preamplifier is input to the output of balanced (XLR Male), that are restrained with cable lengths up to 50 meters no problem.
You need your course, such a synonymous adapter soldering, as I do, of 2 XLR connectors on a stereo jack, which then comes into the camera.
I do not know if it is to buy an adapter, but you simply buy the TV shop (which may be synonymous to solder it yourself if you can not own) an adapter cable 3.5 mm stereo jack to 2 x RCA
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Walter Gesierich
Hello Slash Cam Neuling,
"Welcome to the club" ... and congratulations on the excellent debut. A good explanation of the editorial staff actually moved to the archive could begin.
Nevertheless, a small note: I know the used GS 400 unfortunately does not think that he, if he so little input sensitivities, perhaps synonymous an outlier could be because the standard input for camcorders sensitivity is -74 to-70dbSPL S.5, 6 kOhm input resistance in asymmetric Reccordern. This corresponds to 1.99 to 3.1 mV / Pa. Now is the Micro requested, such as when you write about. 2 mV / Pa .. I go of impedance of 200 ohms. This should therefore no additional equipment will be required to ensure operation.
If the above GS 400 only 30-50 mV / pa should have, this corresponds to -50 to -46 dbSPL and more resembles a line input, as synonymous classical electret microphones (ECM 100) provide output voltages of 3mV/Pa s .600 ohms.
Perhaps the Treadstarter but only once the Microphone try without additional equipment to purchase.
He had a good chance that it works fine and saves a lot. Ed, if not then should be, because its not a camcorder microphone sensitivity s.der input jack available (I have no information on the recorder can be found), the preamplifier can still buy.
Only with an electret microphone, he then synonymous not so much because next 30-50 mV / Pa makes no Microphone.
Antwort von Dr. Walter Gesierich:
Perhaps the thread starter but it was only once the Microphone try without additional equipment to purchase.
Only with an electret microphone, he then synonymous not so much because next 30-50 mV / Pa makes no Microphone.
Thank you for the warm welcome at the Club ...
I am simply times when one, a forum post writes really synonymous idea and the people forward, and it is not just hot air. And you're one who so deeply eringedrungen is true in the matter.
Now for a council to our ungulate and all of the great herd of Slashcam that are similar problems with rumschlagen:
Your tip above, first try the Microphone. Is sometimes not easy, if you do not live in a big city, where everything's there. Since I have very good experience with the shipping company Thomann made, since the return of carefully re-wrapped product with money back within 14 days to work really easily. In search of the best lowest-directional microphone, I have a T-bone-Microphone with lobe pattern for 99,00 Euro can come and have a very accurate comparison test with our video club Microphone Sennheiser ME 66 made according to the list of 500 euros will cost.
None Traue frequency curve, which you did not even draw!
The difference is so dramatic that I could not believe it. Schlechter muddy sound of the T-bone, no highs, even the polar pattern from Sennheiser is better, although the ME 66 has no leg, but "only" a super-cardioid (Hypercardioide). And finally: the ME 66 has a much higher output voltage (namely incredible 50 mV / Pa, while it is a Electretmikrofon with 1.5-volt Batta is!), Our controls so simple preamplifier in consumer camcorders wonderfully loud to, so the noise of the T-bone is significantly higher when the soundtracks of both Micro's in the same volume, on average adjusted computer.
Moral of the story ': For almost 300 euros a used Sennheiser ME 66 with the associated food adapters K6 in Ebay auction, and it takes a lifetime, no more money for a Microphone output.
And if the directional pattern was not quite as tight, then there's half the money for various capsules to the feed module K 6, with ME 62 Omnidirectional, ME 64 (I added) with kidney, ME 67 with very severe, long leg . The good thing is: The fine, clear sound character in all caps is virtually the same, ie you can easily recordings with different caps and make the same film used, without a kink in the sound to have.
So Neuling all your wishes have fun trying, the greater will be the "lucky" when "his" Microphone has found.
Antwort von peha:
Hello Walter G.
das ist ja mal 'ne thorough treatise!
Your comment
You can actually order sendereif concerts with 2 microphones in stereo recording. I take time to launch you to a tip regarding Micro-choice to ask.
My Sony camcorder, with whom I occasionally music and spoken theater wants to include, have s.ihren 3.5 mm jack inputs a supply voltage of approximately 3V. but no XLR. As seems to you of the recommended Hitec preamplifier to be the solution, by two XLR mono microphone via 10 m cable s.Vorverstärker dock. The signal is then balanced to the preamplifier, where over a short and asymmetric stretch of this with an adapter to the camcorder. I see it correctly? What are cheap and good mics up to 100 euro / pc or what stereo-Micro (which goes through a three-cable preamp?) Are / is?
Thank you.
Gruss
Peter
PS
I had my previous contribution of this move:
http://forum.slashcam.de/kann-ich-normale-xlr-mikrofone-with-einem-camcorder-verbinden-vt58401.html?highlight=xlr
and just noticed that with the reference to the Sennheiser ME 66 my question is already half answered (price range is, however, far exceeded). Maybe there are but a tip for my price region.
Thank you.
P.
Antwort von Dr. Walter Gesierich:
Unfortunately, a few days passed.
You have absolutely right for your situation, this preamp is THE solution, nor on where you are likely Theater Recordings by Tripod films, and you look at the preamplifier s.den not even have to hang belts (wide Metallfederclip but it is available).
Above all, you have the long distance (10 m) the failure-free balanced XLR cable, and only a short distance from VVSt up to the camera.
What is important is the correct adapter cable from the preamp to the camera, so description
At the microphone class to 100 euros, I must unfortunately fit. Sounds elitist, but I've really given up, where to look, since I by t-bone 9600 of Thomann for 99,00 Euro was so disappointed. And I had the good fortune to be at the same time, musicians, and an entire suitcase full of microphones with very good to have.
It must, however, certainly in this class good, because I have previously only with our Zoom H4 digital recorder from the video club rumgespielt, which has two built-Electretmikrofone. The sound surprisingly good, and the complete unit will cost just 290 euros, so can the 2 Micro's, which are fitted together there is not more than 100 euros. Geht doch. Since you have to just try and test things at home. I did a comparison test of a musician of studio microphones magazine on CD a few years old, but plays no role in microphone, the best of NEUMANN and are already 50 years on the market. There, I remember having a microphone to have heard, for example, of Rode, where I was amazed how close even the s.die Neumänner come, and of course viiel cheaper. If one looks long enough, you will find what has the very good sound and still not cost too much.
So only courage ...
Antwort von Dr. Walter Gesierich:
Have a question about part see:
A stereo microphone is not with the 3-conductor cable to XLR preamp. The (rare) noble XLR stereo microphones have a 5-pin XLR Male (2x2 symmetric phases + 1 common ground), and would only have a Y-adapter on the 2 separate XLR inputs of the preamplifier are aufgedröselt.
There are other, developed especially for cameras, cheap stereo microphones, but they are always unbalanced (ie your cable lengths unsuitable), and have also mostly small jack, so that they equal the camera jacks in the consumer camcorder fit.
The aim, according to read tests but no major progress towards sound built-in camera microphones bring. And if they are with cable extension closer s.die source, is the unbalanced cable the problem because Brummen.
With 2 identical, good mono, you're better served in stereo, especially if you have a wide stage in the theater must be transferred. I have very broad stages have 4 microphones placed in a stereo mixer and mixed with the panoramic control on the stereo spread, and then as a ready signal in the stereo camera system. The doll is ...
Antwort von wilo:
Hi Walter,
thanks for your detailed feedback! Meanwhile, I have subs for solution:
Den of you recommended preamplifier ordered to (initially) a Rode M3 XLR mono-Micro for around 100, - Euro (plus cable and y-adapter). For this price it is unusually good (see s.http: / / videofilmen-online.schiele-schoen.de/zeitschrift/allgemein/archiv/preview.asp? S = 12203 & f = vf20802018% 2Epdf).
Again many thanks for your very helpful hints.
Gruss
Peter
Antwort von peha:
was not logged.
Peter
Antwort von beiti:
Den of you recommended preamplifier ordered to (initially) a Rode M3 XLR mono-Micro for around 100, - Euro (plus cable and y-adapter). For this price it is unusually good (see s.http://videofilmen- Now you have to think about how you preamplifier from coming into the camcorder. You can so the line-level preamplifier of undamped simply not in the microphone input of your camcorder to send. (Line Input Your camcorder probably has not.) Or you can Preaudio 2 Approximately settle down so sensitive that it works?
Antwort von peha:
Aha. This is a new problem for me. The camcorder has a less sensitive synonymous AV Input (Sound and Picture) - do not, however, whether the shooting is active.
The Vorverst. I have not in the house. To what extent can the rules, I will immediately upon receipt of course try.
Thanks for the hint.
@ Walter, what do you mean? You know the thing, yes.
Gruss
Peter
Antwort von beiti:
If I use the output of my mixer s.den Mic input connected my camcorder, I use selbstgelötetes attenuator. (The circuit diagram, I had this years ago times from the network considered. Is a simple voltage divider made up of a few resistors.)
zum Bild The recording does so quite well, but my camcorder has a manual Tonaussteuerung what the adjustment easier. How good is the Audio Control s.Vorverstärker with the automatic audio control of the camcorder would be tolerated, I do not know.
And another tip: Whenever something s.externen microphone input is connected, the camcorder only with Battery operated. The network is becoming a slight hum, which is increasing with increased length of cable (I know the cause is not technical, but know from experience with multiple camcorders).
Antwort von wilo:
Halo beiti,
thank you for the best service. Will I possibly use. The resistors are 100 ohms and 33 kilo-ohms, right? My TRV 900 has also synonymous either a manual audio control.
The hum I know synonymous, and although heavily when I Wolfgang Winne's "catchy" s.den mains supply connected camcorder.
Has probably what with the grounding to do so.
Gruss
Peter
Antwort von beiti:
For Sony camcorders is the network because of the power supply hum worse than others. But synonymous my Canons with no voltage output, making a purely audible noise.
And yes, there are 33 kilohms and 100 ohms. Times I even had several versions of the Schaltplann (for different dB attenuation values), but I just do not. An electrician could probably resistance values myself, but because I must fit.
Antwort von huftier:
Dear People,
Thanks for the info and sorry that I do not formerly have bedankt.
It is now, after consultation with a musician who "with what it knows" has the following combination:
Camcorders: Canon HV30 (for a camcorder with XLR connectors, it is simply not financially - not synonymous needed!). The camcorder has mini-jack ...
Micro: AKG C1000. This is a condenser microphone with 9V Battery. I was told it would s.Camcorders and s.Notebook (synonymous without preamplifier) run ...
Bin mal gespannt, if I walk to the warrior, because that just purchased adapter cable (XLR> mini-jack) works at least s.Soundkarten not input ... There is no sound on - whether with or without Micro.
Now, I will look at the links gathered here to question XLR> (mini) jack lead to mind.
Thanks again for the very informative posts - re-learned
Antwort von miku:
Hello beiti,
only to complete:
You can so the line-level preamplifier of undamped simply not in the microphone input of your camcorder to send. (Line Input Your camcorder probably has not.) Or you can Preaudio 2 Approximately settle down so sensitive that it works? Yes, it works: when you sensitive to the 'gain' control of the preamp to approximately one third raise, it may be the Aussteuerungsautomatik of your camcorder is still cope without distortion. Even better is if one with manual audio control s.Camcorders something runterpegelt.
Gruss
Peter
Antwort von beiti:
sensitively when the 'gain' control of the preamp to approximately one third raise, it may be the Aussteuerungsautomatik of your camcorder is still cope without distortion. Even better is if one with manual audio control s.Camcorders something runterpegelt. The times I must smooth out with my mixer. When I put the camcorder disqualify quite low, so should theoretically even a lower value get out noise.
Antwort von macuser77:
I would be next to the AKG C1000 Rode M3 watch / listen!
I will for my HV20 same menu.
Antwort von jbl:
The Rode M3 may be a good be good Micro, however, is synonymous of a heavyweight almost a pound and a considerable diameter and is therefore my opinion, no case for fixing s.Camcorders.
Gruss
Peter
Antwort von Tinobee:
PS
because I would rather take a look at just 60g heavy Sennheiser MKE 400 cast. However, it is probably better for language (as for music) optimized.
P.
Antwort von Theo_Rehticker:
XLR is when ichs correctly, for distant noise sources is essential. As a soloist, I can not serve and Angel must Ansteckmicros / Lavalliermicros dodge (like with the box ZOOM wonder if I'm 200 ¬ uro had left, Thanks for the tip).
How strong is the expected result when I plug in the 3.5 and remained without XLR example of this Microphone Rode for about 100 euros
Antwort von macuser77:
ok m3 of the rode is obviously intended as an external mic (micro tripod next to the camera)
where do you get really cheap good "Asked for zubehörschug (micro crazy) for light micros are suitable?
wär sowas perfectly what something höer is synonymous and possibly a second thread for a flood light offers.
I would have left very, very grateful
sorry my shift key is stuck ;-)
Antwort von Dr. Walter Gesierich:
XLR is when ichs correctly, for distant noise sources is essential.
How strong is the expected result when I plug in the 3.5 and still no example of this XLR Microphone Rode Of .. on the accessory shoe of the HV30 set?
@ Theo_Rehticker
1: right, p.2-meter cable length catch you without a balanced XLR cable = so many faults, that you with the sound of no state can do more. The longer the bad. For lavalier microphones with several meters of cable, you need to get absolutely a "symmetrierenden" preamplifier close to the camera (if you do not use expensive radio, which of course is superelegant, we have the 100 series of Sennheiser Video Club).
2: Right on the camera is mounted the route of the Microphone Eingangsbuchso so short that this is synonymous unbalanced no problems are expected. The "efficiency" of the said Rode microphone is loud Datasheet 15 mV / 94 dB (I hope the dB indication corresponds to the same standard Pascal volume of German microphone manufacturer). This is an ordinary value, synonymous passable without a preamp signal directly into the camera mic input would have to submit. How well the Microphone sounds, I can not say because I have not even tested.
(Amazing how long this thread doing the rounds, I am by chance come back here. He was my "debut" here at Slashcam. Gruß s.alle good sound freaks).
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
Hello!
The Rode M3 is of quite well, especially in this price range - but the few Euros more for a NT3, I would have to invest. The signal is stronger and much clearer sound quality, again, as the M3. Just walk into a music house your confidence an A / B comparison to make. You'll be amazed.
Although the light is not synonymous, but I think (Boom Operators please just look away!) That the "few" grams of the Tonanglern should probably expect. You get really decent technique for a very good price.
Antwort von Theo_Rehticker:
Super, and detailed how fast you can get information here
- The times I had to get rid of --
THANK YOU
Antwort von Dr. Walter Gesierich:
Well, because we both are here: Theo_Rehticker and Prak_Ticker
Antwort von Theo_Rehticker:
to Dr. Walter Gesierich: ;-)
to macuser77: Yeah, unfortunately only as a private provider in the auction house is found --
Antwort von Theo_Rehticker:
The Picture is not mine and in a short time no longer available.
zum Bild
Antwort von Meggs:
S.2 meter length of cable catch you without a balanced XLR cable = so many faults, that you with the sound of no state can do more. That's not quite.
XLR does not need to be balanced and symmetrical is synonymous with TRS possible.
The cable length, when trouble-free images with unbalanced signal routing are possible, you can not at 2 m pauschalisieren. It plays heavily on the environment (disturbances by stage lighting or other sources of interference). In addition, the signal strength plays a major role. Micro-level is much more prone to failures than line level.
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... to macuser77: Yeah, unfortunately only as a private provider in the auction house found ... These spiders have virtually any microphone manufacturers in several varieties in the program. A good overview, there's for example here:
www.thomann.de/de/search_dir.html?sw=Mikrofonspinne&ls=100
Gruß Bernd E.
Antwort von Dr. Walter Gesierich:
So now's true 100%. I got a little shot from the hip, because in many cases, it fits, but you have now scientifically's to the point.
Antwort von Markus:
How strong is the expected result when I [...] [...] this Microphone on the accessory shoe of the HV30 set? Since Beiti had a few impressive shots published example:
MP3s of three microphone / locations where do you get really cheap good "Asked for zubehörschug (micro crazy) for light micros are suitable? Bernd has already been a possible source for spiders linked. A version with additional accessory shoe on top, I am still not arrived.
Finally, a discussion that one or the other should be interesting:
Antwort von macuser77:
I've meant something more
http://cgi.ebay.de/Universal-Blitzschiene-f-Digitalkamera-Flash-Softbox_W0QQitemZ350050153547QQihZ022QQcategoryZ11378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
order with the micro-drive away from the next to come in and spin from the big T. is not the will to this part fits.
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... with the spin from the big T. is not the will to this part fits ... At least two of these spiders - Rode SM3 Beyerdynamic EA and 86 - are perfectly for mounting on an accessory shoe provided.
Gruß Bernd E.
