Infoseite // DV or HDV?

Frage von AKED:


Hello,

I recently encountered on this forum and have a question.
The search took more than 2000 results, which is no big help.

The following scenario:
I turn professional training DVDs in the field of sport. So fast movements to be well covered in artifacts when panning and quick actions of the actors, I can not use.
So far, I have shoulder with a Panasonic WV-F700 camera with Andockrecorder AU410 MII and as the 2nd Camera a Canon XM2 mini DV camera rotated.
Sliced is with Avid Liquid Pro.

Now the aged MII Camera unfortunately abandon their service.
So the question for a new main camera. May be priced between 2500 and 4000 euro lie.
Since I have been a few years no longer employed with cameras that, I turn now s.diese forum.

Since I am most compatible DVDs must produce, I will certainly continue until times in PAL mode, but I have considered a camera to buy, which can both PAL and HDV.

I was informed specifically about the Panasonic HVX200, Canon XH-A1 and SonyHDR FX7.
So now I read a lot here and am not sure anymore.
PAL images with these cameras its not so great, the down account of HDV to PAL even less.

So, for my purposes TOP prefer a DV camcorder, the HDV can not (of synonymous to me from a DV-Cam or DVC PRO, and in any event no PAL HDV) or maybe one of the 3 above camcorder.

I'm doing this for 18 years, but am self-taught, was not professionally taught me a camera deal, but something logically experiences.

The shootings come at 90% in well-lit studio on a tripod instead.
Good or bad low light abilities or "small and handy" are not the primary buying arguments.

I need a camera, with which I at the moment in PAL-class sports can do. If one of these cameras comes out good. But if pure PAL Camera significantly improved PAL makes recordings, I would have to renounce HDV component.

I would be glad of this forum to get some advice.

Greeting

Dieter



Antwort von C.I.W:

If one with HDV HDV cameras in turns and the material on the computer plays in PAL, the results hardly be worse. What you should not, is an HDV camera with the same record in SD.
With your budget of 2500 ¬ is already a SonyHDR FX7 indoors.



Antwort von AKED:

CIW Hi,

thanks for the only answer.

For budget, I forgot a 0. So, 2,500 - 4,000 euro may cost. I was in the prices of the 3 already mentioned cameras around. The Canon is synonymous inside the Panasonic (yet) slightly outside.

I'm synonymous think that it's better to be "should" when AMN at the HDV revolves. But I'm holding not sure that my purpose is (motion artifacts in HDV and so)
Hence the request for feedback of people who have experience with this.

Can CIH if I shoot on HDV, the output of the camera determined that PAL rauskomemn be?
And is then Eien AVI or MPEG2 file? Or is the subject of the setting in my editing system Avid Liquid PRO?

And sorry for the stupid question, but what do you mean with SD?
S.PAL I suppose, but what is "SD"?

Thanks and greetings

Dieter



Antwort von C.I.W:

Yes, SD stands for standard definition which in our case, PAL. You can download the files from the camera of course, as the SD into the computer and play from Schnittsysthem dependent than either Mpeg or AVI ... About the artifacts, I can unfortunately only you know what I'm up to now in the network have seen. One says that it is unreasonable, the other is it's not on .... I will get it easy when my FX7 arrives. Just a few pans in different speeds, ...



Antwort von AKED:

Thanks nice of you if you then just what drüber times could write.



Antwort von AKED:

Here is a quote from the Kaufberatung Forumss this topic:

Furthermore, a HDV cam that is available on PAL standard runterregelt, a poorer quality than normal DV Cams, this is s.Aufbau the chip HDV camcorder, it needs the PAL Picture digitally calculated, which leads to data loss.

Something like I am. Merkt you clear?
I did not feel like 3000 - 4000 euros to spend then noted that the PAL signal that I get is crap.

Are there any suggestions for good pure PAL camcorder?

Thanks and greetings

Dieter



Antwort von C.I.W:

This refers to the DV recording mode. What I mean is in HDV and record in SD on the computer to play. So there is not of quality.

If you are still on SD sets:

- Canon XL2
Panasonic DVX-100
-SonyVX2100

The cameras are pretty good, but unfortunately the Panasonic does not support 16:9 and Sony To my knowledge, not synonymous.



Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:

Moin Dieter,
I soon as a smaller project in DV making it myself but only for DV VX1000 and the FX1 (HDV) is available and so the question synonymous for me is interesting, I try tomorrow during the day take a short test get added (hopefully I have the synonymous one hour).
Since this time will still upload the following:
- VX1000 (DV)
- FX1 (HDV)
- FX1 (HDV -> DV Camera in downkonvertiert)
- FX1 (DV)
everything nicely into a single uncompressed image inserted. If I still had some extra time, because something comes from an old Sony Einchipper (TRV140E) were added.
Someone will have an idea?
I have a lot of houses in the "green" in front of the window, so a lot of fine structures, straight edges, light-dark transitions, etc., but no action / movement (ha, so yes I live here ;-)).
What downkonvertierte the material is concerned: I guess times that the FX1 the same algorithm is used as the FX7. Sonyrecycelt certainly parts of the firmware, this is yes to. In this respect the result should then be transferable (may be synonymous me wrong!).
BG
Andreas



Antwort von dasplitt:

The ranking is as follows:

- FX1 (HDV)
- FX1 (HDV -> DV Camera in downkonvertiert)
- FX1 (DV)
- VX1000 (DV)

You can with the FX-1 in DV recording, but see rows of tiles in
- FX1 (HDV -> DV Camera in downkonvertiert) better.
- VX1000 (DV) has no real 16:9






Antwort von AKED:

@ Andreas,

klasse, danke.
But the moving objects are what interests me. The HDV Picture a standing better is logical.
The movement you could simply and easily with a swivel produce. If the same result.
Or a passing car or something.

I'm already excited at the results.



Antwort von AKED:

"Anonymous" wrote: The ranking is as follows:

- FX1 (HDV)
- FX1 (HDV -> DV Camera in downkonvertiert)
- FX1 (DV)
- VX1000 (DV)

You can with the FX-1 in DV recording, but see rows of tiles in
- FX1 (HDV -> DV Camera in downkonvertiert) better.
- VX1000 (DV) has no real 16:9

@ Host

yes, you would think.
But when the converter is really bad ...
But that is me, yes. From "I believe" and "I suspect" to a move away "it is so or so" because of experience.

But thank you for the rating



Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:

"Anonymous" wrote: VX1000 (DV) has no real 16:9
that is correct. That which delivers as 16:9, looks like three analog NTSC copy material :-(
Well look, maybe there are one or other of the swing to the right vieeeeel time I did not ...
BG
Andreas



Antwort von AKED:

Does the VX2100 synonymous not 16:9?
My XM2 has das



Antwort von C.I.W:

But no real. Only displaying 16:9.



Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:

... sorry, today was nothing: as I aushäusige VX finally had snowed and there was already duster. Now I hope for better weather tomorrow. Clips with the FX1 in HDV and DV, as well as with the "old" TRV140E (Einchipper) in DV, I have already done, the clips of the VX should indeed Lighting of the match.
BG
Andreas



Antwort von Meggs:

"CIW" wrote: But no real. Only displaying 16:9.

Always these rumors. The XM2 hides, on request, at 4:3 images on 16:9 display boundary lines that is true.
Moreover, they are synonymous a 16:9 mode. This provides an anamorphic 16:9 picture.



Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:

Soooo ...
1) the state images are hier, die Dateien sind "sprechend" benamt and befinden sich in einem 6,6 MB großen ZIP-Archiv;
2.) ich konnte alles in einen rendered clip - HDV, which hier, die Dateien sind "sprechend" benamt and befinden sich in einem 6,6 MB großen ZIP-Archiv;
2.) ich konnte alles in einen is then



Antwort von issc:

Less fast movement s.sich as the number of moving objects makes the HDV life difficult process. For example, lightweight telephoto rather flat on the sea surface and thousands of small waves in the moving picture, as you can in the Z1 light Artefaktierung see. But even in the Dolphinarium or at sporting events (jump riding), I had no problems with artifacts. I think in practice the issue is rather theoretical.






Antwort von C.I.W:

For God's sake. Why there because even with the VX1000 DV artifacts such unreasonable?



Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:

... You guckst Built.



Antwort von AKED:

"Andreas_Kiel" wrote: Soooo ...
1) the state images are hier , die Dateien sind "sprechend" benamt and befinden sich in einem 6,6 MB großen ZIP-Archiv;
2.) ich konnte alles in einen rendered clip - HDV, which hier , die Dateien sind "sprechend" benamt and befinden sich in einem 6,6 MB großen ZIP-Archiv;
2.) ich konnte alles in einen is then



Antwort von issc:

"Akede" wrote: "Anonymous" wrote: The ranking is as follows:

- FX1 (HDV)
- FX1 (HDV -> DV Camera in downkonvertiert)
- FX1 (DV)
- VX1000 (DV)

You can with the FX-1 in DV recording, but see rows of tiles in
- FX1 (HDV -> DV Camera in downkonvertiert) better.
- VX1000 (DV) has no real 16:9

@ Host

yes, you would think.
But when the converter is really bad ...
But that is me, yes. From "I believe" and "I suspect" to a move away "it is so or so" because of experience.

But thank you for the rating
my assessment has nothing to do with faith, I had already tested. The ranking will look like, based on the future earnings of Andrew, he was so synonymous has confirmed.



Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:

"Akede" wrote:
Your HDV, which Resolutionist the 1080 i (1440 X 1080) or 720p (1280 X 720)?
1080 i
My pleasure :-)
Andreas



Antwort von the machine:

"Akede" wrote:
And anyone knows whether the full PANASONIC HVX200 HD Resolutionim DVCPro HD format brings, ie 1920 x 1080?

Thanks again and greetings

Dieter

NO! DVC PRO HD has only a reduced synonymous native resolution at 1080i!
1280x1080 at 60i
50i 1440x1080 (like HDV)



Antwort von AKED:

OK, at DVC PRO HD, however, in contrast to Mpeg4, each picture is recorded and not only every 14th Picture and only the differences between them.

Therefore for postprocessing, etc. probably better suited. Right?



Antwort von PowerMac:

"the machine" wrote: "Akede" wrote:
And anyone knows whether the full PANASONIC HVX200 HD Resolutionim DVCPro HD format brings, ie 1920 x 1080?

Thanks again and greetings

Dieter

NO! DVC PRO HD has only a reduced synonymous native resolution at 1080i!
1280x1080 at 60i
50i 1440x1080 (like HDV)

At least, right ...! Otherwise people like to write the wrong things to Resolutionvon DVCProHD.



Antwort von snowy:

He was polite, friendly and courteous!






Antwort von Axel:

"Akede" wrote: OK, at DVC PRO HD, however, in contrast to Mpeg 4, each picture is recorded and not only every 14th Picture and only the differences between them.

Therefore for postprocessing, etc. probably better suited. Right?

HDV is MPEG 2, but otherwise agrees das The swing in Andreas'Vergleichsreihe would synonymous with the HVX 200 non better (because with movement artifacts due to compression of time has little to do, the computer shows as bad). But would you with the Panasonic (for the moment) is correct for HDTV. The European Broadcasting Union now recommends as the optimal broadcasting 720p50 format.



Antwort von C.I.W:

And what is with 1080i?



Antwort von Axel:

"CIW" wrote: And what is with 1080i?
Here (you need to register and receive the newsletter free of charge), is usfolgendes:

"The Results of extensive tests (...): Today, the distribution of HDTV signals in 720p/50 the best ratio of quality to bandwidth (...) for displays of up to 50 inch. In 1080p/50 is still potential for displays larger than 50 inch. But why not the same 1080p/50 vote?
" (...) Little critical picture material can be in 1080p/50 better picture quality than 720p/50 bring.
" The upscaling of the display of 720p/50 on 'FullHD' will not lead to a discernible image degradation (...) with a 50-inch display. "

This
"This breakthrough is very important because it demonstrates that the emergence of two competing formats (720p/50 and 1080i/25) for HDTV in Europe will NOT cause problems for consumers. It also shows that there is no need for a format was the two systems can Coexist peacefully with each other. "

Also do I conclude from this that although 1080i to 720p actually only approximately 20% better Resolutionhat, a down conversion almost or completely lossless possible. Since, however, I may be wrong.

In relation to akede question of the optimal format for sports reportage would be the following rankings:

1. 1080p/50 intraframekomprimiert (?).
2. 720p/50 intraframekomprimiert (Panasonic)
3. 1080i/25 intraframekomprimiert (? - Not Pana, wg. Resolution)
4. 1080i/25 AVCHD (Full HD with 1920 pixels Camera?)
5. 1080i/25 HDV (Canon, Sony)

DV, I would completely leave out. HDV 1080p/25 looks nice for short films, motion resolution is for sports reports but not good enough.



Antwort von C.I.W:

What do you people have the FX7. This camera can hardly 720p 50. Is it what, in the settings to export to this format?



Antwort von snowy:

runterkonvertieren goes ...
but i of p, it is already difficult
if you do not like. every 2nd row may simply omit
as 960x540p from 1080i ...
Perhaps a suitable script for AviSynth
or any other software which expects good?
gruß cj



Antwort von snowy:

ps.: But when you do 1080p from 1080i
may be the progressive 720p synonymous with not so great.
someone knows how the pixel at runterskalieren treated
... will be kicked out the superfluous or
averaged?
gruß cj



Antwort von snowy:

comes to the quality of your rights.



Antwort von WoWu:

HDCAM When you have a sensor resolution of 972x1100, in which the H14 MPEG 2 (4:3 layer) H 14 is already hochskaliert. then you have anamorphic pixels of 1440 x 1080th The interpolation according to 16:9 you can now work out ...