Frage von recas:
Did some editing with programs of Magix gearbeitet.Besser said, I've versucht.Egal which product you take, I can say it all scrap mt ist.Wer once a sensible program has worked, the determined support of Magix bestätigen.Der reflects my opinion on Magix. 5 days to reply and then the completely wrong answer.
The program boasts of Programmabstürzen.Ist usually not schlimm.Aber if the work hours of the exercise is already Ärgerlich.Man imagine a memorized before synonymous Project is destroyed and all data (photos, music ...) are no longer in Project.wie has been said, a abgspeichertes Project.Beim burn a DVD is always a place where the film has stuck (black screen). Finally, a comment on my PC.Es is with one of the Neusten.Und I sell back my newly acquired MAGIX.
Antwort von Bespi:
I can confirm (version 2004 and 2007), but now work professionally and, therefore, understandably, no longer with magix.
Antwort von recas:
Yes.Das I will be synonymous again tun.Und still would be to mention the great support.
Greeting
Antwort von JMS Productions:
So I can
not confirm at all. Did the 2006-2007 version and now the PLUS PLUS 2007-2008 and had
NEVER crashes or other Unnanehmlichkeiten. The only time where I had to claim the support, I was quickly helped competently. Its consequence is even more cryptic to me, what you experience here seems to have done ...
Zuallerst before you complain großartig goes, you should try the problem for himself (to be read at his PC) to search, because it can not be that my version is running without any problems and your not. MAGIX distributed are not different versions a la "This version is buggy and prepares problems" and "this runs 1a. Zuallerst times I would make sure that the PC is set up properly and cleanly installed and has been for DV editing (in this case for MAGIX) has been optimized, as I with my PC did.
By Make sure the latest patches or updates, I avoided any bugs before and they do so not only with.
And under these circumstances for me MAGIX running without any problems, I can 1000 projects open at once side, the PC through any intense effects to bring s.seine limits, without any crashes or problems.
Perhaps it serves the Prog synonymous simply wrong, who knows?
Antwort von recas:
1.scheide videos I have been raised of premiere 5.1
2.CONSIDERS my PC like they wrote a clean tidy.
This is always an argument of the manufacturers of bad video software like Magix.
3.warum other editing programs run without any major problems?
Antwort von recas:
Even a.
I know not what they used schneiden.Ich HD material.
Antwort von kkutte:
So show me a program where someone says "ALL GARBAGE.
I too (Magix users of different versions) I've been on Magix geärgert.Es things happen even then I can not understand synonymous, errors in the operating eternal codec activations, which actually already paid for.
Then the claimed support (true). Where is the good support today?
Except perhaps on expensive Nummern.Sagt HOT uneingenommen me a video where the software support is really good?
All are increasingly sensitive about this but let the customers are looking for and call a page in life where the short close.
But now times the positive: When I worked Magix since Version 2008 without any problems in the HD area (with 2006 and 2007, I had sometimes synonymous unexplained crashes in the area even in the DV). The support has already helped me synonymous even if it is a little long.
The editing capabilities, I think this price is still unchallenged.
Otherwise, everyone should take what he had in any case will.Ich some other manufacturer as "garbage" I recognized. Maybe it synonymous with a lot to do with what software is constantly working, then you need to no instructions and no support because they are more knowledge.
The professional user, I can not judge probably will not synonymous software between 100 and 300 Euros to use.
stays cool and fun when cutting
Greeting
Kurt
Antwort von Tintifax:
I can confirm.
My stepfather has been tormented for six months with Magix Video Deluxe rum.
Since all the sequences are truly in a cut and finished
Secure Project flutes!
All necessary files (avis, jpgs, etc.) were not altered, moved or else!
Whole sequences simply black but the original is still there, is sometimes added music away ...
A few days ago were in a secure Project some sequences plain green. No more film.
Absolute SCRAP!
Antwort von motiongroup:
Magix, all belong in the garbage Programs Prime example for a comprehensive round based on spite because my calculator in conjunction with VDL not do what I expect .. thus clear of all MAGIX products are garbage.
Rubbish must be said, unfortunately, and yet not entirely unjustified the VDL has many quirks and the Proved on X versions are not or only insufficiently patched.
If the functions in the advertising copy work, this is a 1A software .... Samplitude and Sequoia are the best examples.
Antwort von Markus73:
I can confirm.
[...]
Absolute SCRAP! I really wonder what I am doing wrong. I have been working for 3 years with intensive Magix VdL, the versions of 2006, then 2007, then 2008 Pros, Premium now 15, had NO major problems with and maintain a look of me that I have claims that have the "normal" level amateur already a bit beyond.
Error-free, it is not, those are all the other programs but still much less that I have seen and by the functional scope is VdL in its price class unique. There are synonymous enough half-integer and professionals who work with it.
A ruling such as the above I find in such a Pauschalität therefore equally inappropriate as simply useless and niveaulos. Because A person is not clear, it is "absolute junk"? Many others can work wonderfully.
Regards,
Markus
Antwort von JMS Productions:
@ Markus73:
I am completely and totally your opinion! I think it's stupid to say MAGIX is not a professional program. I also know of many, for example, Magix Video Pro X in the professional sector and use of this program is synonymous proud price.
If an accident with a Mercedes S-Class is built and then full of anger, said afterwards: "Ahh, Mercedes belong to all the garbage," then why are all Mercedes really shit? Is it time to think about ...
Antwort von recas:
"
A ruling such as the above I find in such a Pauschalität therefore equally inappropriate as simply useless and niveaulos. Because A person is not clear, it is "absolute junk"? Many others can work wonderfully.
"
Of course, the garbage and scrap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or should that be OK if you 4 hours s.Filmchen schneidet.Dieses save!. And then suddenly the Project deleted! No more data is stored in the Project.
So what happens when Adobe is not.
Magix should withdraw the license !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Antwort von Bernd E.:
... Of course, the waste and scrap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... That may well be your opinion, just as others have other experiences with this, what your personal perception is relative. Such now-I-lad-my-frustration-from discussions started here many times, synonymous if they get nothing. An exclamation point is sufficient, incidentally.
Magix ... you should withdraw the license ... What license "z" do you mean?
Antwort von JMS Productions:
So what happens when Adobe is not. If you knew what the Adobe products is happening (which I incidentally next MAGIX synonymous own) ... And what if a user premiere soon crash-related causes, and it synonymous to your garbage mountain lands, which is then nights super-duper program advertised? Final Cut Pro?
Antwort von Bespi:
apart of the crash, which admittedly synonymous on all other programs happen magix now is really not a professional program. the audio track of magix like a professional, but the s.videomarkt occurs is totally consumer-oriented. I constantly get any newsletter offered with this company for 2 click programs. "photos on dvd ...."
times and honestly: why should a profit with magix instead with premiere and final cut work? what makes this program look like? a professional should the latter two so you can afford.
synonymous I know a few that magix use in the company. in truth are the only self-film producers, of which none of the material have unknowing.
synonymous in the einstieg magix class is not the measure of all things. there are plenty of equivalent or better program.
Antwort von kkutte:
[quote = "Recas"] "
Of course, the garbage and scrap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or should that be OK if you 4 hours s.Filmchen schneidet.Dieses save!. And then suddenly the Project deleted! No more data is stored in the Project.
Well I know nicht.Ich have 2008 years of film of a dance erstellt.Von January to December, I 50std.HD-cut video footage, sound editing and effects and as a Project gespeichert.Die films were based on an internal and two external USB hard disks distributed . Not once did I see in this time the problem has something
of my project, let alone the whole project disappeared wäre.Auch with older versions of MAGIX me was such a thing never happened.
Antwort von Jörg:
So what happens when Adobe is not. You dreamers,
such times in the appropriate forums -1 errors which have for years, users of 5/6.xx annoyed. Even today, although very rare, project losses through mp3 files, or incompatibilities of language versions available.
Perhaps the difference comes from the fact that for Adobe programs a quick workaround for the solution.
Antwort von recas:
I do not know what a comment with their opinions want.
But the fact is too unstable Magix läuft.Das here but have been more synonymous erkannt.So here that I'm not the only one so it goes.
And now I understand the know-nicht.Das belongs here but not here her.
BTW I cut synonymous with premiere CS4.Mit Magix cut just because I am a lactation DVD image and create the synonymous only because of the Effects (Fotgraph, fish ...). Where is this effect since there are hardly any of Magix expanded.
Antwort von recas:
"You Dreamer"
I love that s.diesen forum.
Can not objectively communicate?
Antwort von Markus73:
Of course, the garbage and scrap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If DU can not work, then just let your fingers like this, this is the best for all concerned. Many other works are wonderful, I do it like you before.
What the meaning of your postings should be, remains an enigma to me. If the Magix software would be as bad as you write, do you really, you're the first, the notes and the rest have to warn the world? With such a funny lump statements betray you much more about you than about the Magix software.
Regards,
Markus
Antwort von MK:
At least it is only in the garbage, some other programs would be synonymous in the waste in good hands;)
Antwort von Markus73:
Can not objectively communicate? Imagine times exactly the same question :-)
Regards,
Markus
Antwort von recas:
Yes Marcus.
And you know-a son synonymous.
MOST BEAUTIFUL SUNDAY yet
Antwort von Markus73:
Yes Marcus.
And you know-a son synonymous. Yes, I know that I am writing with K ;-)
Antwort von Jörg:
Can not objectively communicate? oh man, if you knew what I
would have written, I would not usually tries to objectivity ....
How someone like you, after this fire speech of others may require objectivity .... nee, not declare it now!
Antwort von JMS Productions:
Yes Marcus.
And you know-a son synonymous. This is always better. What are you up yet preached? You should remain objective? Yes and what are you doing here please? If you like your pitiful arguments, you have a primary similar to kindergarten level access and know-other than Klugscheißer or title? Yes, that is obviously something that is factually and of high standard!
And to clarify again: I'm not someone who claims that there is only MAGIX exist in the world and nothing else. Of course there is software that is 3 times the cost of Magix. BUT: To claim that MAGIX totally scrap it and stuck to this opinion to persist, although 95% disagree, I find it quite wrong. And relating to professionalism: It is my opinion does not matter how many features a 1000 different editing program and has so many effects you can achieve,
but how to be
self-made video. A professional film nature documentary, as they appear on or 3SAT ARTE is broadcast, I get synonymous with MAGIX out. An action-packed Hollywood-tracking guns Peng-Peng thriller, however, probably not (but not much more synonymous with premiere), but this does not mean that I am not quite with MAGIX can achieve professional results.
As stated above has already said: No one is forced to use MAGIX. Then use Premiere, Movie Maker or whatever. But then no labert scheiß á la MAGIX therefore forbidden and belongs to the garbage. There are enough people who have very positive experiences have made and are satisfied. I use both as synonymous MAGIX premiere and found the two programs complement each other great. MAGIX What I do not, I do in Premiere. I find the workflow, however, MAGIX much easier and more comfortable.
Antwort von recas:
Na klar.Ich had offended anyone with my Beitrag.Aber if there is a certain know-then I will stand up well so I can express synonymous.
Antwort von Bespi:
@ JMS Productions
magix synonymous supported formats such as DVCPRO etc? as far as I know supports magix pro x XDCAM only. fails it.
when I talk of cutting programs, I only average synonymous and no cheap effects. I create this, if at all, not in NLE's.
Antwort von recas:
Say I only know-doch.Fast in the forum.
Antwort von Tretboot:
Hach, I'm hardly here newly registered, as I write synonymous times zerflamten into a thread:)
I think it is a little bit with software as with humans. One can with a good software, so that others come garnicht clear, but they are totally in love with another soft. We must halt the software will find a match.
Oh and: I got my grade so yes because I logged on here to build the people here much better than I know:)
Still desires a relaxing Sunday.
Antwort von motiongroup:
So I find really cute pointed here goes ....
All of them have been bad on talking obs Windoofsbasis or Macbasis runs and all of them have their good and their bad inside the Apps ..
Nevertheless, I find great as some militant defended his sweetie without knowing what really lies in Argen ..
So toitoitoi you will find is synonymous not only question of time and the insight
Antwort von domain:
Can already understand that Recas many hours of creative work is not lost like this and wanted to make air times.
In fact, there must be something in a NLE do not enter.
Have Liquid initially due daring experiments synonymous 4-5 times for freezing gebacht. Could only with an empty timeline then be started, but with the import of the old sequence was produced and everything else it can not run at all: any synonymous nor so little action must be a revised car at any time and reproducible results Project, everything else is completely indiskutabel.
Antwort von domain:
Yes, I can understand synonymous. I would be totally annoyed synonymous. However, the synonymous in all other NLEs happen.
I was just saying that this is impossible in Liquid. Emergency storage routines even hold synonymous nor the last step in the death notes.
The only possibility would be to deliberately Projektfile manual and on the Explorer to delete it.
Antwort von JMS Productions:
I was just saying that this is impossible in Liquid. Emergency storage routines even hold synonymous nor the last step in the death notes.
The only possibility would be to deliberately Projektfile manual and on the Explorer to delete it. How does that then from the normal auto-save? In MAGIX (at least in the newer versions) you can adjust that as each minute is stored. Do you?
Antwort von domain:
Yes, this option because Recas set?
Otherwise, much can be lost.
Requirement is however that each step in the NLE indestructible documented. As the liquid, but when exactly is, I know not synonymous, but in any event not regular in time but quite noticeable saving the previous current sequence, including the most recent changes, which can be intermediate steps in manual action.
The fact is that in case of emergencies always basically the entire timeline is restored and the same and not otherwise be there at every NLE run.
Antwort von motiongroup:
© JMS Productions can it be that you do not own forum in Magix move ??.... if you have the desert but this is not an isolated case and that there are many others yet to patch the error especially in the HD area and there've been 4 versions.
On the other hand, what I have abstained abgeht it shows how an origin of some is ...
Antwort von motiongroup:
Outward and again already, but! Dan read it yourself synonymous detail and you will the thread starter a little better ... so wrong, the comrade is not if I can write so synonymous and I am a burned child.
But I must admit, they should be the error in my last purchase version of the clean version and the 08Plus ADVERTISEMENT product features, we could observe in the home already synonymous friends.
And for the PowerMac written, I had almost synonymous me from the grid when I got the confirmation that the MDR is part, in full satisfaction is used .. what that means always synonymous. NEW When I saw today and the VJs with a large backpack with CAM, and Schlepptop more s.Rücken made me realize the direction in which to do it ... schaut mal rein in NEW
Antwort von B.DeKid:
Programs include all waste Thus you could be right. Where we are again on the question of "How is my PC system set up" means.
As I am already so in some MAC discus ion said, is a PC with a console does not compare, so it may be of USER to USER already come Probs. Times are too few or too many codecs, times are hard or differences Ram or graphics cards.
Only and alone but should be mentioned here once again be the Magix for ordinary citizens. These come mostly synonymous with the functions are not really clear. But like all other programs which should be on the market, so that one can indeed create. I tell me if I choose between my old Magixs un splicer I probably would have been synonymous with Magix access.
A problem but so childish is to draw fully on the botty.
So the solution is not close to synonymous.
Oh Yes Arte regarding productions and abilities of the one or the other here --
Yes who wants to run Arte must vorallem what to tell and have good work, whether he is now with adhesive or press Magix schnibbelt is just irrelevant and totally un factual.
I'll tell only one - with its cardboard shoe Still Camera Image can make images synonymous - in other words, in the sense you've loved.
MfG
B. DeKid
PS: And let the stupid homophobic posturing, garnicht Think how many people fully for the Popo find. Should I add times ;-)
Antwort von KSProduction:
Did some editing with programs of Magix gearbeitet.Besser said, I've versucht.Egal which product you take, I can say it all scrap mt ist.Wer once a sensible program has worked, the determined support of Magix bestätigen.Der reflects my opinion on Magix. 5 days to reply and then the completely wrong answer.
The program boasts of Programmabstürzen.Ist usually not schlimm.Aber if the work hours of the exercise is already Ärgerlich.Man imagine a memorized before synonymous Project is destroyed and all data (photos, music ...) are no longer in Project.wie has been said, a abgspeichertes Project.Beim burn a DVD is always a place where the film has stuck (black screen). Finally, a comment on my PC.Es is with one of the Neusten.Und I sell back my newly acquired MAGIX. working with the video deluxe 15 and can say that it is very stable. synonymous've already successfully cut, and has worked with with the double screen, so the 2 preview clips side by side, worked. the output quality of image and sound is brilliant.
where I must watch every time are the various locations under the directories and around it. did not yet properly understood and must still work on it. I am looking for the fault of so therefore for me :-)
because I am already a few hours s.arbeit been nullified with error messages, etc.
the advice I can give, who is unsure should initially prefer TRY and LEARN. because it is very time when people still do not know.
with Ulead videostudio10 was easier. but the results in visual and sound is magix world. times as mentioned.
Antwort von chris80:
So what happens when Adobe is not.
If you knew what the Adobe products is happening (which I incidentally next MAGIX synonymous own) ... I test currently VDL 15 and Premiere Elements 7, therefore the question: What can happen at Adobe?
With VDL 15 I have good experiences. Stable and easy.
CHRIS
Antwort von KSProduction:
Hab grad synonymous experienced what nice times and thought I post it short of what I Magix-redaktion just sent. maybe it's of interest to you and may be one or the other production save:
As I mentioned in the DVD Menubearbeitung s.Design DVD menus finally worked was an error peculiar reason that I should quit VDL.
Okay I thought, I go to save and save again from the Project. A serious mistake.
When I program herunterfuhr and again, the entire project was deleted. It was no longer there, only the project name!
Hours of nothing.
That may not be ???!!!
THE HAB MAGIX SENT TO ME. Tzzz! So it is not always of benefit to save * grins *. PONAVLJAM ALSO RAN TO THE ENTIRE "SHIT" and MAKE NEW ....
Antwort von Markus73:
PONAVLJAM ALSO RAN TO THE ENTIRE "SHIT" and MAKE NEW .... Alternatively, you could obviously synonymous one of the backup copies to open the car creates Magix ;-)
Regards,
Markus
Antwort von heimax:
I did after it was praised so much, sometimes Premiere Elements 7 is installed.
So far I have everything with Magix geschnitten. Never crashes or other problems.
Now the highly Elements 7, first use. After I created the title had been completed.
Does not work anymore. No save is possible. Thus, first done, I will stay with VdL 15 and Pro X.
mags
Antwort von joerg-emil:
... now I must again synonymous mustard to give my ...
I am working since 5 years with Magix in different versions. Since I often events movies, I have some projects in three camera perspectives, each about 3 hours! and yet the sound mixer to run in parallel. All-in-one Project and partly with effects such as color or brightness. And my calculator is certainly not a high-end device. To that extent, this sort of blanket judgments like "everything is shit" safely in the garbage Kloppe. Sinking into a specific problem, then you will be helped, otherwise you only solves a fundamental discussion of what editing program probably the best thing, like this ... and this forum is already full enough ...
... and Nochwas to the memory problem who is unable to continue its work under different project names regularly save or to the internal backup Magix access files, should perhaps rather its workflow check or take a look in the manual throw ...
Gruß Jörg-Emil
Antwort von KSProduction:
PONAVLJAM ALSO RAN TO THE ENTIRE "SHIT" and MAKE NEW ....
Alternatively, you could obviously synonymous one of the backup copies to open the car creates Magix ;-)
Regards,
Markus mensch markus, now I have so often helped would then NEN course times when you make and pay tuition fees. because it has really worked and the supposedly lost under MV_ still available! Many many thanks!
Antwort von Markus73:
mensch markus, now I have so often helped would then NEN course times when you make and pay tuition fees. No cause, I am :-)
But do not laugh, I will indeed soon enter Magix courses.
Regards,
Markus
Antwort von motiongroup:
Magix for private or with Magixprodukten ?....
Antwort von Markus73:
Magix for private or with Magixprodukten ?.... In self-directed, but under a program initiated of Magix and with their support.
Regards,
Markus
Antwort von maxi62:
Magix VDL15 has been ne s.Macken whole corner and the user interface is not the synonymous Hammer. Many effects are far too cumbersome to integrate and to unflexibe to unbrauchbarl.
But it is reasonably stable, offers many opportunities in many formats and can edit, so I use it yet. better alternative with similar amount is included in the price range is hard to find.
Antwort von KSProduction:
[quote = "maxi62"] Magix VDL15 has ne s.Macken whole corner and the user interface is not the synonymous Hammer. Many effects are far too cumbersome to integrate and to unflexibe to unbrauchbarl.
but synonymous drauf s.welche user interface is used. if you just call the windows or the rapid and less cumbersome to use keyboard. Incidentally, there are now of a dedicated magix put out keyboard for program!
Antwort von KSProduction:
Hab grad synonymous experienced what nice times and thought I post it short of what I Magix-redaktion just sent. maybe it's of interest to you and may be one or the other production save:
As I mentioned in the DVD Menubearbeitung s.Design DVD menus finally worked was an error peculiar reason that I should quit VDL.
Okay I thought, I go to save and save again from the Project. A serious mistake.
When I program herunterfuhr and again, the entire project was deleted. It was no longer there, only the project name!
Hours of nothing.
That may not be ???!!!
THE HAB MAGIX SENT TO ME. Tzzz! So it is not always of benefit to save * grins *. PONAVLJAM ALSO RAN TO THE ENTIRE "SHIT" and MAKE NEW .... the project was still under MV_ saved (copy the security magix create) and I could get back in the directory.
I saved the project again in the regular project name where yes, the data were lost.
worked s.diesem next project, and have cut texte inserted but it is not synonymous but nothing changes in the burn included.
the hammer is that this magix-test-dvd player on the fire side it brings as I had changed but the issue, however, the old, unedited version of the project will be burned.
Antwort von Schlafsack:
Magix specifies an image file to the DVD. When you burn you will asked if re-calculated, or the old file to be taken. Because you need to recalculate, or halt the old files.
Antwort von motiongroup:
So I can particularly after four versions in the HD cut only so formulate ... Finger Weg!
I have all versions of bug with the support since I discussed the first version has not been resolved. The advertised features are essential and represent an editing software.
I habs and now abandoned as a mistake in the investment off, which is itself a resale is not in question since it is for the buyer is not reasonable for him about the nature of the program not to know if it would buy None.
Even the uninstall is to say a bad joke. If they are in the uninstall routine for as much trouble as had Rauf scoop on the plate and in the registration, I would have been satisfied. Even with the cleaner available for download, the system remains Magixverseucht.
Antwort von KSProduction:
Magix specifies an image file to the DVD. When you burn you will asked if re-calculated, or the old file to be taken. Because you need to recalculate, or halt the old files. thank rolf,
is misleading here hold that the magix such a program is synonymous wonder if all the files is unchanged.
briefly back again to your answer: yes it comes the message:
VTS_01_1.VOB
If the existing file for the movie "..." used?
O chapter Menu and Info rewrite
O film menu rewrite
(tick where should I put in both?)
Finally, there is
O all encode
O encode
O
O all use
(what am I here take "all use" I suppose
Antwort von kkutte:
[quote = "motion group"] So I can particularly after four versions in the HD cut only so formulate ... Finger Weg!
Can you tell me where your problems in the HD editing with Magix lie? I'm working now 1 year since, and although very much, with my HV20 and Magix (2008 and 15) together without significant Probleme.Ausser of purchasing a new computer because of performance problems is my Alten.Das Magix but not a problem.
gruss frock
Incidentally, I do not work for Magix synonymous and I have nothing against other editing software
Antwort von joerg-emil:
Hi KSProduction,
the questions that Magix before the burning process is, you can not answer a flat rate. It always depends on what you have in comparison to the previous version changed it. Do you have what the chapter menu, it must be re-encoded, what hast thou in the movie menu, it must be re-encoded, you have several movies in your project, you can for each film to decide whether he should be re-encoded.
This query dialogue can help you a bunch of senseless NEN computers save labor, if you apply it correctly. Let's assume that you fall in to a finished DVD that you have a chapter marker forgotten something, so you can put this in the query dialog and only the chapter menu can encode, and the remainder will be used as usual. It is then rapidly. Sometimes you save it for hours .... Encoding
Gruß Jörg-Emil
Antwort von motiongroup:
but surely I can write the dir, but you have just read.
http://support.magix.net/boards/magix/index.php?showtopic=42903&hl=
http://support.magix.net/boards/magix/index.php?showtopic=40990&hl=
http://support.magix.net/boards/magix/index.php?showtopic=39309&hl=
http://support.magix.net/boards/magix/index.php?showtopic=36536&hl=
http://support.magix.net/boards/magix/index.php?showtopic=34115&hl=
The emails of support I can not set ..
I said I was only the confirmation by the support which they have the bug to take note and it will work ...
Has unfortunately done nothing to 2008Plus and the 15 ... is there patch for 08Plus unfortunately None.
