Frage von Arminius09:
Hello,
have no question but you would like to s.meinen experience to our move into HD filming (; share on HDV to AVCHD). After I had processed several years and filmed in DV, drew in the penultimate year but the shooting in HD. This was accompanied by the change of Media Studio Pro to Adobe Premiere 2.0. With Adobe, I actually came very quickly realized. I chose as a camcorder, the Canon HV20. My calculator, I was preparing for a 805d Dual-Core processor and overclocked on it. When the system was XP 32 bit is used, the GPU was a ATI. Everything went smoothly and stable. However, there were 2 points to me, "disturbed"
1. Recording on tape
2. Use of other Adobe Programs missing
The latter caused me, as I was able to buy the CS4 Production Premium package on the EDU-Course. Thus the adventure, however, began in earnest. According to the Mindestanfordeungen my system with the overclocked D805 CPU should be enough. But far from it. The HDV editing, still below the 2.0 AP ran smoothly under this system, ran with the CS4 version only (very choppy;) preview, program response. The event was once again to upgrade my system, and even if it correctly: i7 CPU (, 920), Vista 64bit, 12GB of DDR3 RAM, ATI HD4650 GPU, and of course a new mainboard (; Asus P6T). That, I thought that was synonymous sufficient for a later switch to AVCHD (; and thus away from the tape). The HDV editing in any event ran smoothly again. The switch to an AVCHD camcorder, then let synonymous not wait long in coming and so I bought in June a Panasonic SD300. The workflow with the clips on the SDHC cards I liked right away very well. However, the cut with Premiere again ran very choppy. After long research on the Internet I decided to copy the graphics card to an NVIDIA auszustauschen (; Keywords: CUDA). And I wanted to show off but not making a mess. I built up a GTX 260 GPU. And what I had not noticed until then, a new power supply with 750 watts instead of before 500th Lo and behold, it'll work now synonymous with AVCHD!
Now I'm not quite sure what has contributed more to success: the stronger power supply or greater GraKa. Or both? Is synonymous no preference. Now everything is running smoothly again: the preview, the scrub with the needle over time, the timeline, etc. Also, the rendering is fixed.
Oh yes, the performance index in Vista is now showing a 5.9 for my system. Previously with the ATI card, it was still 5.0.
Bottom line: AVCHD requires power, performance, Lesitung, ... and costs, costs, costs, ...
If someone thinks s.einen transition: Only the best take and compromise.
Regards
Armin
Antwort von Alf_300:
The performance index presumably refers to the hard drive as schächen link in the chain.
Quad 2.66 with similar configuration, but it shows 5.9 synonymous with
Windows 7 goes to 7.9 since 7.2 is just the hard drive remains at 5.9
What is that now that once worked well and the other is supposedly not at times as well as the great mystery.
Programs such as CyberLink and Ulead sometimes work better than such as Adobe Premiere. But real power will help with ...
Antwort von Arminius09:
Ne, ne, the weakest link was the GraKa HD4650. Was evaluated with 5,0, (all other elements, CPU, RAM, Fetsplatte) have already been evaluated with 5.9.
At the higher power I have come only through the current issue of the compute video. As will be discussed in an article in the issue of whether and how a PC can be upgraded. Then there was a link to a synonymous Choice for the power supply (for Employed components; http://support.asus.com/PowerSupplyCalculator/PSCalculator.aspx?SLanguage=de-de)
(With the old 500 watt power supply, and without the GTX260 card) had its premiere (synonymous sometimes a few "trailer";) no feedback. Perhaps it was so (for lack of performance; watts) the timing of the CPU / system reset, and therefore the service failed Premiere
That's why I'm not sure whether it was the GraKa or the power supply.
Antwort von domain:
The real disaster in my opinion yes AVCHD is basically the current use of the freedom of this format, which means something like proprietary company-specific format.
If this problem should not soon be settled and the data structure is not now in such a strict corset, such as DV-AVI or HDV can be transferred, then there is, thank God, no future for any AVCHD, but for strictly standardized H.264 or for AVCI
Antwort von deti:
I disagree: AVCHD denotes a subset of the H.264 standard format, and the possible toolsets. Through this reduction is just the exchange and processing of H.264/AVC-Material is possible. If one were to develop and AVCHD by indiscriminate use of all H.264 features, such interoperability would be almost impossible to guarantee.
Even then, when the MPEG2 video encoding has been developed, one has initially provided a much wider range of functions which has been synonymous still not fully implemented. Only the establishment of certain features of the MPEG2 video encoding was the interoperability, as we know it today possible.
Thus AVCHD next in terms of H.264/AVC nothing but the mention of your HDV - standard as to MPEG2 - video. HDV was originally developed only synonymous of JVC, and later of Sony, Canon and Sharp adopted. AVCHD was at least initially of Sonyand Panasonic developed and is gaining in popularity with many other manufacturers.
Deti
Antwort von domain:
In the silly season so we can discuss Miscellany. The way I see it, and for the analysis of synonymous elCutty it seems just on the sgn. AVCHD-sector chaos s.firmenspezifischen give interpretations.
This situation is obviously unacceptable for the future. Since there can only be completely uniform format synonymous if there will be quite a bit different about it, but not on such a limited sector, as in the Consumercamcordern, the format of any NLE should actually be accepted, but this is not the case.
Antwort von beiti:
If someone thinks s.einen transition: Only the best take and compromise. How can you do this, of course. I have done it differently, and that is synonymous: Edius Neo purchased as editing software and accepts the Komprimiss having to convert my AVCHD video before cutting into the Canopus HQ codec. For this, I now cut HD video on an old calculator over 5 years. Upgrade hardware, I had only one large hard drive for the large intermediate files. It cost me 70 euros for the software and 100 euros for the hard drive.
Antwort von Arminius09:
Synonymous is one way I've been thinking about. But I wanted to save me the step and halt the conversion of native cut. Finally, this pedestrian functionality, but suggested.
And since I start the year on the digital editing was fair and there Sven Brencher short of the cut AVCHD has shown in CS4, I was of (this solving workflow, film to SDHC card - SD card into the Schnittrecher slide - and even cut right of the map ) excited.
However, it was only working there with a few clips here and everything looked very fast and smooth. Adobe behaves itself, for larger projects with several 100 clips significantly (;!!!) sluggish because no mention was, of course. The inertia is open to the (of the project, until you see all the clips in the bin as a thumbnail to get rid of) and ends with the film output in the Media Encoder (; load the project).
This sluggish behavior is synonymous with my above-described hardware configuration is not much better now. That says something s.der basic architecture of Adobe lie. Only the work in the Project and the rendering speed was significantly better.
Antwort von B.DeKid:
...... The Adobe behave themselves, for larger projects with several 100 clips significantly (;!!!) sluggish because no mention was, of course. .......
This sluggish behavior is synonymous with my above-described hardware configuration is not much better now. ...... Only the work in the Project and the rendering speed was significantly better. So when I read something I need! Laugh
Ever thought that one worked only short passages and then when everything is finished the clip is only together?
People if you everything you want in an NLE and then pulls you wonder that your not confused with it, then the problem must be sought prior to the Calculator to!
So you will never, however, synonymous in the least able to create somewhere that.
MfG
B. DeKid
My tip is, therefore, separate projects and are working closely to create subfolders concept and not complete the OverKill condescended to!
Antwort von domain:
Does not synonymous quite. With Liquid, it plays virtually no role whether 6 or 600 clips to be loaded. Charging time is always the possibility to edit in the timeline under a minute, closer to 45 seconds with my weak PC
Antwort von Arminius09:
Well, the fun you have.
Where is this because with the short passages? I have not read it. Maybe we have to study for it ...
So I've worked in all my projects (; of course, all well placed in the Bin folder structures and) in several sequences, but I have not created many small projects but a Large. Of course, the clips are vorgesichtet. However, this in turn is not in the Bridge With AVCHD, since they clips are not shown.
With DV + HDV, there's no problem with this way of working. Only AVCHD with Premiere CS 4 reacted as above described slow.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Domain
which means something like proprietary company-specific format. It is undoubtedly the most proprietary, which is currently almost no product at all s.The AVCHD HD specifications and next considers the "thin" 1440 makes that is not specified as HD.
Otherwise, the MPEG4 / AVC H.264 Implementation Guideline is drawn as narrowly as yet no MPEG Guideline before.
MPEG has also (from the previously lousy implementations; synonymous studied with IR).
Otherwise I do not knows which deviation and "freedoms" You mean, because there are (though, for HD or less) the "cheapest" profile (; and Level), which uses AVCHD, but they are part of the specification, as already described deti has. In this regard, there is no big synonymous of freedom for the Manufacturer.
And "elCutty" in his "analysis" some errors and confusion hearty. He may not have a current AVC confused with the MPEG2 stream, but this is obviously the case.
Thereupon, I would not necessarily to refer to.
Armin @
With the replacement of the hardware you have unknowingly eliminated synonymous the real sticking point ... the customized software, and thereby, appropriate load balancing.
AVC is not particularly hardware "greedy", but it requires a different architecture ...
With the exchange of the key elements you would probably come with less of it.
Antwort von Arminius09:
@ Wolfgang
Such as? I mean, what "sticking points" and the "key elements".
Believe me, I have read in many forums even more contributions (; synonymous your posts in video venue "AVCHD vs. HDV), but not at anywhere and even gets in the clear software vendors (;!) Statements about hardware requirements.
I complain so not at, and finally I have now built up a current acceptable solution. I wanted my post synonymous only with a review of the stony path of AVCHD editing reinstellen here. Thank God I can such experimental development (synonymous financially afford, and have a more lenient with respect to women of my hobbies ;-)) and have a corresponding synonymous technical development will. But there are synonymous video fans who can not afford this and we have all been suggested in a world of advertising, so do not exist.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
@ Armin,
Thanks for reporting your experience!
After long research on the Internet I decided to copy the graphics card to an NVIDIA auszustauschen (; Keywords: CUDA). And I wanted to show off but not making a mess. I built up a GTX 260 GPU. Can we start with Adobe CS4 something with CUDA?
If so, what?
Otherwise, I'll give you right for AVCHD Nativschnitt takes a lot of PC power.
In my system the graphics card is also currently the weakest link. I'm going to change that.
In the performance assessment of the W7 goes to 7.9, are not the processor (; with Q6600 OC to 4x3GHz), (RAM, 3GB) hard disks, or the problem.
With the proxy method in Power Director 8, I can edit AVCHD files very smoothly, no Ruckelprobleme. However, the preview is not s.sekundären monitor the quality can be assessed objectively suited to the effect of certain filter.
Antwort von Arminius09:
@ Bruno Peter
Can we start with Adobe CS4 something with CUDA?
If so, what? As I said in the preview premiere run smoother. Even with transition, superimposed titles, and Effect on the title, and Picture in Picture preview runs smoothly in the highest quality. This was not previously the case. (Without these latest changes to the hardware, PSU, GPU) I could just the clips (on a track, without transitions, effects, Überlageraungen, etc. play) smoothly. Synonymous, and the scrub on the timeline is now running without delay. Whether it's s.CUDA but is generally more efficient GPU or s.dem or even greater power is I can not say that I have both installed parallel.
I have just installed the GPU once synonymous decoder Of Divide frame, but it had more problems than improvements.
(In other programs, especially After Effects, Photohop) I have not looked up.
greetings
Armin
Antwort von deti:
Really clearly expressed relating to Adobe and Nvidia CUDA is not synonymous of: http://www.nvidia.com/object/builtforadobepros.html
Deti
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
GPU hardware support has always been possible for certain effects, with different video editing programs.
CUDA support is something else. If you have CUDA views on the AVC encoding in the case of CyberLink PowerDirectos 7 / 8, then you put your ears but on the right, an upgrade of existing PCs is not necessary to be in many cases!
Antwort von Arminius09:
@ Bruno Peter
I am therefore synonymous switched to ATI because I can see of ATI is currently no equivalent development. I know there are synonymous as a beta version of a piece of software, which is synonymous to support the Adobe software. But even apparently only functions with an AMD CPU. Supposedly they s.einer tuned version of the Intel CPU synonymous to support it.
NVIDIA CUDA, and I expect more in the future (; synonymous, in conjunction with Adobe, and not only in relation to the Quadro cards). The GPU decoder of Divide frame is already a good approach. Sorry, buggy and unstable.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Yes well, but as I know Adobe can not get the CUDA technology.
I lay me also just an Nvidia GraKa (to; 9800 GT), but especially so because I am about video editing programs synonymous enjoys support CUDA via the AVC encoding. For MPEG2 encoding gehts so not with Nvidia, which can only Ati-Stream technology.
Antwort von Morton:
Hi All,
I recently read once that motherboards with the AMD 780G chipset and the Intel G45 chipset is now synonymous to support video decoding. What is it to think of it? Is there anyone with experience?
Regards
Morton
Antwort von Arminius09:
Yes well, but as I know Adobe can not get the CUDA technology. But that is certainly possible, but you need to Premiere probably a Quadro card. Support for Photoshop works well synonymous with consumer cards. Tothe Quadro's see this link: http://www.nvidia.com/object/builtforadobepros.html
There are generally (but a GPU support; synonymous) for Premiere. See here:
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/405/kb405445.html
Probably depends on the performance increase of my system mainly with the stronger performance of the GTX card yoy. The HD4650 and less to do with CUDA.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
If it were CUDA, then it must be activated before the whole optional encoding. A quality comparison with / without CUDA still lacking in principle.
The GPU support has been able to switch on in Premiere has always been optional, for GPU supported by the effects timeline editing.
Antwort von Arminius09:
The GPU support has been able to switch on in Premiere has always been optional, for GPU supported by the effects timeline editing. In CS4, the premiere is taking
no longer be activated, at least I think among the presets nothing. Had been synonymous noticed some contributions in other forums. The GPU support must surely now be "hard wired". In After Effects and Photoshop, it is selectable.
Antwort von Yerri:
Believe me, I have read in many forums even more contributions (; synonymous your posts in Meeting Video "AVCHD vs. HDV) But that is not of WoWu but of another Wolfgang! * G *
Antwort von Arminius09:
Yerri @, @ Wolfgang,
sorry, I thought that it is the same Wolfgang. No idea how I got it.
@ Bruno Peter
Yesterday I looked again at the premiere in presets: In CS4 is the option of GPU support is definitely no longer exists. And any CUDA I think the final option to export not synonymous. So there's probably synonymous (;) nor any CUDA support with consumer GraKa's.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Consumer GraKas not exist. (My former employer, guaranteeing a pro!) With 500 million sales in the year GraKas commercially used in his establishment!
I have now a Zotac GF9800GT ECO gained with 1GB of GDDR3 memory.
Antwort von Arminius09:
Consumer GraKas not exist. Oh, sorry about the choice of words. But this GraKa's are so often described as synonymous Gamer Cards. Hence my choice of words. In addition, only the Quadro's known as a professional card at various sites and in magazines. Should probably always on the position.
By the way: I work for a company synonymous similar magnitude and have stuck in my workstation with a NVIDIA Quadro (;!) NVS 110th
Antwort von motiongroup:
I have now a Zotac GF9800GT ECO gained with 1GB of GDDR3 memory. Congratulations Bruno yeahhh ..... But you has been that this is a umgelabelte 8600GT is ....
'm really interested wasd so write ...
Antwort von Sunbank:
Not quite Korekt, though then a 8800GT
http://www.pc-erfahrung.de/grafikkarte/vga-grafikchips-desk/geforce-9xxx-serie/nvidia-geforce-9800-gt-g92b.html But where the 8800GT is still not one of the bad cards. Surely there are better cards but now synonymous to higher prices:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2009/test_14_grafikkarten_vergleich/
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Congratulations Bruno yeahhh ..... Date ...!
Encoding with CUDA support for AVC now only 24.8% of the original Encodingszeit without CUDA technology in my current test project!
Antwort von Arminius09:
With what software? With PowerDirector?
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Yes!
It was faster than real time!
Antwort von motiongroup:
Sorry yes I've seen .... habs Chip: G92 (; D9P)
Antwort von wolfgang:
And "elCutty" in his "analysis" some errors and confusion hearty. He may not have a current AVC confused with the MPEG2 stream, but this is obviously the case.
Thereupon, I would not necessarily to refer to.
@ WoWu,
I would be interested, where the did that happen? So the elcutty the difference between mpeg2 and AVC do not know?
Antwort von domain:
So we went about it rather less to not at all. My name perhaps unfortunate fact for the almost "proprietary" freedoms under the simple interpretation of AVCHD was rather to understand the software vendor only after and to integrate the various features in the Manufacturer specific design to their AVCHD NLEs too short div said Ungereimheiten and legitimate differences within the specification to handle themselves.
Until recently, for example, there was talk that Sony Vegas was not exactly a friend of the interpretation of Canon AVCHD.
Presents for me, and this fact alone constituted defacto something like a proprietary company-specific interpretations of a too broad standards and in this sense I understand synonymous elCuttys analysis of the (; quite different) bit structure, no more and no less.
Antwort von B.DeKid:
.... But still IMO means - rather DOMAIN - this one takes to have 25 clips in AE s.diesen to tinker around with ;-)
Real people honestly .... no preference what the PC / Mac for Power has - it is important to consider establishing effizent too. Then, "Less is often more".
SOTI and in front of the entire file to BIN is good but still not the end of the flagpole ..... as said by accurate planning and good concept, can be synonymous with old PCs still edit AVHCD well.
;-)
MfG
B. DeKid
PS: Although I perso. AVCHD projects because I still reject the kompremierung is too violent and far too much trouble bescherrt process than the material I wanted to.
Antwort von WoWu:
And "elCutty" in his "analysis" some errors and confusion hearty. He may not have a current AVC confused with the MPEG2 stream, but this is obviously the case.
Thereupon, I would not necessarily to refer to.
@ WoWu,
I would be interested, where the did that happen? So the elcutty the difference between mpeg2 and AVC do not know? Hello Wolfgang
I want you (the answer of course be not guilty; synonymous when it is perhaps a little OT) and would like to tie s.einem example of how things can be mistaken or misunderstood:
The following quotation is at Bruno's HP
http://www.hennek-homepage.de/video/hdv-gegen-avchd.htm
(; last paragraph), relying on the elCutty "analysis":
According to studies of elCutty (; video meeting), Panasonic to its customers once again grudged a new AVCHD format. This now come with a short 10-GOP: IbbPbbPbbP ... hence. It is (the sum of the audio track record; 32ms/Record) of a GOP, much (the video track record, 40ms/Record). Thus the sound is a recording s.end always somewhat shorter or longer than the video information. It can adjust over several GOPs, makes it necessary, but be careful when merging to it. Thus, the sound in a test clip is s.end longer than 32ms to the video information. Apparently I was of frame after I frame, the GoP established. This is wrong and leads to such remarks.
In the AVC does not constitute the I-frames, the GoP border, but the IDR-frames, because of there s.keine Rückwärtsprädiktion longer possible, but beyond the I-frame boundaries.
A look at the properties of such data flows have shown that currently come into the GOP's usual constellation of 40 or more are not unusual, then synonymous with only 4 I-frames for implementation. AVC allows for up to 15 IDR I-frames + 1, with the GoP lengths then (of course, extend, for example GoP 100). Allersdings has the very significant benefits, but should not be here next discussed.
Therefore, synonymous to the wrong conclusion that the audio lengths synchronously with the image lengths ... No wonder, if I do not count parts of the video stream and at any I-frame stop counting. Well, the fact synonymous note
s.kann converge over several GOPs Sure, if I look at the entire GoP, that is, it's true.
You see, here is designed to MPEG2 - drawers, which leads to essentially false results.
We should at this small example of how things are misinterpreted to leave.
Greetings to Vienna.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
PS: Although I perso. AVCHD projects because I still reject the kompremierung is too violent and far too much trouble bescherrt process than the material I wanted to. What is that "the kompremierung" B. DeKid?
What is being premiered?
Antwort von hannes:
you can help next?
http://encodingwissen.de/x264/technik.html
Antwort von wolfgang:
Thanks for the response times, WoWu. I can as to whether such a long GOPs are allowed, or how they are defined, for lack of knowledge of these structures and the definition of the term hardly GOP say something.
But I would propose to stop to put here not too much of a Sekundärzitat too. Or here for a conceptual framework as the GOP length.
Elcutty that can program a valuable tool that I can detect as Fachlaie in the field very well. It's that way. And that it is the difference between mpeg2 and mpeg4 was not clear where he was obviously with the hex editor to anschieht the structures, and based on things just this - programmed in practice working - tools, which for me is already a fact.
Also of the page here I see a rather innocuous dispute among experts ... about concepts. For me as a technician rather more applied secondarily, I must say in all honesty. At the end of the day should work the thing.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Wolfgang
I understand completely synonymous, and I doubt not the fact that many good tools to help next, just warn only against this type of analysis, which, as noted in the "old" MPEG2 Think arising out of and are thus necessarily wrong. And of course it is more than just a matter of definition, for such a think shows that AVC was not understood properly in its functioning.
I had advised against such references synonymous just because they have been given here, but are likely to generate a completely false picture of AVC.
But as I said, the topic is OT and I would therefore want to leave it at this thread.
Best regards.
Antwort von wolfgang:
Yes, we have it - it is offtopic here. But leave me for the questionable tastes of an expert discussion, where I tend to ask where the meaning may lie. Well, so be it.
Antwort von Bruno Peter:
Wolfgang (; with the ISBN)
But once the test tool mentioned here.
Furthermore, I personally totally not care "who is there right.
Antwort von WoWu:
@ Bruno,
Thanks for the hint, but I install no tools or Programs unknown origin .... which has proven itself over the past 30 years, and saves me a lot of trouble on my computers.
I would now no longer so much differ, especially since I see no need synonymous.
Everyone needs to install the tools they need to live and with the results that they bring.
But you points, every tool and every outcome is associated, is only as good as the programmer who developed it. For me one more reason to refrain, of an installation in this case.
If I want to analyze a stream, I use our own HP. Gives me the "official" values and not interpretations.
And as I mentioned, this has already been no longer the subject of this thread and if Wolfgang had not demanded, synonymous not a time for reflection.
Otherwise you can publish all the right and of course, synonymous Wrong on your website ... to me it's like you, somewhat synonymous no preference.
In this we agree.
