Newsmeldung von slashCAM:The Top 4 (+6) cons of AVCHD (on DVD) of rudi - 8 May 2007 12:28:00 > It is damned hard, good words for AVCHD to find, but if the whole then synonymous still lands on DVD, it can be a complete language, the sly. A lampoon of the worst of all combinations, plus a proposal to resolve all consumer HD format problems.
full article
Antwort von Ian:
Why not just HDV data to a memory write, I wonder synonymous quite some time. Before that I already thought the same, but with hard drive. Now the memory is always larger and cheaper, and have the advantage of no mechanical parts to have.
Camera Zuwätzlich should be synonymous but priced cheap -> no tape or DVD drive, only one card slot.
Ian vg
Antwort von Titus:
HDV requires a similar but much space as DV, that is about 13 Gbytes per hour. Would it not be better to use an internal disk or SD cards in parallel to write? With a 4GByte card because you do not look at 20 minutes ...
Antwort von MadEyedMoose:
So the link above - "full article" - is still not happening.
Memory cards are of course enormously expensive - some see the P2 cards for the HVX200. Even if the prices are forfeited.
But Editable in AVCHD editing programs is expected to expand more and more - sooner or later can find the most Programs. The fact that Sony Vegas is currently the only material of its own camcorder can edit, I believe synonymous only to an intermediate state.
Antwort von rudi:
Would it not be better to use an internal disk or SD cards in parallel to write? With a 4GByte card because you do not look at 20 minutes ... OK, bought, do we now;)
Antwort von rudi:
Memory cards are of course enormously expensive - some see the P2 cards for the HVX200. Even if the prices are forfeited. So P2 cards as preislische reference used here is somewhat naive, because langt Panasonic still quite beautiful.
No-name flash currently costs around 25 euros for 4 GB .. that's almost as cheap as 2 DL-DVD Disks with about as much space ...
Antwort von MadEyedMoose:
True - if this camera synonymous these no-name chips tolerate.
Antwort von Valentino:
So the P2 cards are in my view, completely outdated, Panasonic synonymous if the high price with the Ausage, the cards were handpicked warrants.
For the price of an 8 GB card can be almost four 12 GB Compact Flash cards for sale and 16 GB cards will be so synonymous soon enter.
This would be on a P2 card up to 64 GB available, according to Panasonic 64 GB but only s.2008 possible.
Can someone please me time to explain what's so complicated to be simply the four 2GB CF cards in a P2 card by four 8 GB or even 16 cards to swap. In my eyes to sleep because somehow the developers at Panasonic.
But I always believe in the semi-field by Panasonic for 2008 of Sonyangekündigten XDCAM EX camcorder is out of the market.
The only change I see is only the hopefully soon announced HVX210 is the absolute hammer and as either CF or P2 cards can record and then the whole still in DVC PRO HD EX format and all possible frame rates of 60i to 24p.
JVC and Sony can put it synonymous.
Antwort von MadEyedMoose:
True - if this camera synonymous these no-name chips tolerate. It is here to build on what a Cam aufzeichznen could theoretically, and there would be a CF card with 8 GB of cheap and of the technical data absolutely her enough - just have to hold the camcorder by the manufacturer to support ... if he does not have its own format used to assist in the storage medium mitzuverdienen again ...
Antwort von chmee:
The P2 is so synonymous HDV record in 422, there are tickets available but a bissel too slow.
mfg chmee
Antwort von MadEyedMoose:
The P2 is so synonymous HDV record in 422, there are tickets available but a bissel too slow. eg. a Lexar 8GB 133x Compact Flash card (for 165 euros), according to Manufacturer has a minimum R / W data rate of 20 MB / s - which should have been synonymous for 4:2:2 suffice ... for DVCPRO50 with max 6.5 MB / s in any case reichts ...
Reini
Antwort von Valentino:
The P2 is so synonymous HDV record in 422, there are tickets available but a bissel too slow.
Huh? So do you, but because a lot of confusion. So firstly, is a Panasonic P2 Panasonic product and has continued until now with HDV nochnie apart and credible synonymous heard nothing to the companies that support HDV.
Secondly, the HDV standard as always in 420 records. Only Sonygeplante of the new XDCAM HD Fromat be with 50Mbits and 422 Farbsampling record in MPEG2, but not much to do with HDV has.
What Panasonic is planning a new DVC PRO HD (EX) Fromat only 50Mbit requires frames and in a kind of MPEG4 as HDCAM SR auchzeichnet, but that is not HDV, because of this turn is a GOP structure values.
Why this card after your statement is too slow to be, I do not synonymous, current CF cards sheep around 20Mb/sec. In HDV, but there are only about 3.5 Mb / sec. DVC PRO HD is about 15 MB / sec .. I think even the JPEG2000 soon on CF cards will be possible.
But now I wait on the small first announced RedCam, maybe then you can be recording format and medium itself decide :-)
Greeting
Tino
Antwort von chmee:
Well, I think the only mistake I made was to HDV as a generic term for all non-SD Resolutions used to have.
DVCPro50 and 100 have a flow rate of -> 7 and about 14MB/Sek.
DVCProHD scans with 74MHz (Y) and 37MHz (U and V) from (4:2:2), resulting
arises over the thumbs gepeilt a raw data throughput of approximately 132MByte/Sek.
Give us the codec, a compression ratio of approximately 1:5,
then we are at about 26MB/sek.
In CF 4.0 standard is the bus throughput of 133MB/sek. granted, but unfortunately, many NoName CF Cards not in a position to
überhaupt 10MB/sek reach.
So my verdict: Handpicked, na klar!
mfg chmee
Antwort von MadEyedMoose:
Give us the codec, a compression ratio of approximately 1:5,
then we are at about 26MB/sek. Times prefer to let the church in the village and duplicate the compression ratio.
DVC PRO HD by definition has 100 Mbit / s and not a bit more.
And if so synonymous with a slightly better CF card cope.
P2 is simply difficult to justify the extra cost, see a ...
Antwort von Valentino:
I understand at the moment, the world no longer, I just wanted the
cameraman after the compression factor of DVCProHD just look and point out that a 1080i HDV and DVCProHD 4:2:2 Signal Processing 3:1,5:1,5 one to have. I have always thought HDV2 has DVCPro HD 4:2:0 and 4:2:2.
Oh exactly DVCProHD compression factor of 6,7:1
Funny and is under compression in XDCAM HD MPEG4 / H.264 is the XDCAM HD in MPEG2 is not even in the planned 422nd
If this is true, the article is bad but the
cameraman rescherschier.
Antwort von chmee:
Well, that with the 100MBit I simply and easily overlooked.
After all, I have my account with "only" by a factor of 2 miscalculated:)
Did the test again rausgekramt (23'06 c't), as are 36 of CF-cards 14 in a position to 12MB / s write. I wanted to be here
THE question of principle start that the P2 price is justified, but
synonymous times for discussion, that CF is not the same CF.
Basically I find data on storage media in terms of HDD
or very labor-CF.
mfg chmee
Antwort von Kujo:
DVD camcorder, I do not synonymous.
The finishing of with the AVCHD I think for me personally (as a con-semiprosumer) not as a problem, but because I almost always do rough editing, which really should go fast, and effects it must not cut his, and when the more you Shooting watch, the less you have to make corrections ...
In two years, the computer speed also no longer an issue (I buy me not so often a new camera).
Otherwise, I think basically H.264 (in the mW based AVCHD) video codec of the future.
Synonymous, I believe that Apple usdas easily in the cut programs can integrate QT 7 has built-yes H.264 and how I as a layman can see that is the leap to AVCHD support is no longer as large - that can only be Detailkram .. .
Until now I still do not find HD camcorder that I could move to purchase. I want as little as possible mechanics (ie Flash_speicher, happy with the hard drive can be added) and picture quality as good as possible what the AVCHD data still needs to be raised.
Well, wait and drink tea and s.and to the forum rumschauen ...
Antwort von Bössu:
The current main problem of AVCHD is that it is only 80% of a standard (see Sony Vegas) and the technology is not yet mature. It may well be the 100% standard apart HDV advance, but there is not yet supported. Whether it is technically ready, we will still see ...
HDV to Flash, if the Manufacturer to see the market segment and it is profitable to produce. It is thus simply whether someone these things in the consumer sector would buy.
Nor can it play a role, how to be a well-established brand of "junk area" can differentiate.
The best example for me is the Panasonic SDR-S10: it uses MPEG-2 on Flash. For the size of the camera, the area and the segment would be expected that MPEG-4 is actually reasonable. But it is MPEG-2 (as with the SD-DVD's) and the memory consumption is therefore higher, but in view of SDHC memory and reasonable prices. The reason is quite simple: the image quality is obviously better than to factors for MPEG-4 (MPEG-2 seems to have been better to have a grip) and the camera can be a real video of the locker Tchibo cameras differentiate. That must be it synonymous, because they cost many of the low-cost competition. It is therefore not consider that someone HDV for a flash or HDD Camera use to be of the cheap crowd.
It may be synonymous, that in the AVCHD range, the technology is driving so far that the quality for the consumer sector and even for the Semi-Pro is sufficient. That would not be the first time.
I recall how DV of the big television stations and smiled as it was small regional stations synonymous and the demanding amateur filmmakers now the price / performance ratio estimate (although it is 4:2:0).
I remember s.den outcry when HDV-based MPEG-2 was introduced and all the problems which the NLE editing system through the I-frame issues so that times had to do. Also, the "poor quality" compared to DV criticized (the article with the block artifacts of the first cameras are probably still find on the net) and the industry does not have the courage, as a new and adequate system for HD introduce some but the full-HD opportunities for the benefit of the data has trimmed (1440. ..). Meanwhile HDV is probably rather the hope that it will not get worse.
Cheers
Bössu
Antwort von amigo:
As far as I know, the CF, in contrast to the synonymous SD controller is more suitable. And is in the design (for men ;-) nice hands to grasp. Also the volume of housing is still enormous scope. There are IEEE 1394 card reader, this should probably only be slightly modified to work.
Antwort von monokultur:
What the author as a universally valid disadvantages in Wagschal throws, all if his personal views. And the people of the forums for hours in one hundred percent Crops on the graininess of the existing noise apart. Artistic is behind most absolute Anfängertum, which is hidden behind technical phrases and so alleged expertise demonstrated. I bestitze a UX1 and say to the "obvious, objective disadvantages" of AVCHD following times:
[1 the dvd drive needs a mechanical ....]
Maturity knowledge. Just as Bandgestützes recorder. My UX1 makes no problems. Even coarser shaking brings him from the rest. Wear? Oh please. What fürn stupid argument. Of course, from mechanics to use. As if that was a problem of modernity or even of AVCHD would.
[2.wo gelaufwerkt will fall noises. without sirren is not.]
The UX1 is a little bit, I produced all times rather than the sound of a HV20 or HC3.
[3d 8cm single-layer discs offer good quality at a maximum of 15 minutes]
An absolute Amateuerargument a la "I am leaving soon but three weeks on holiday and want my relationship s.Ende with 5 hours of video annoying."
[4 8cm dual-layer DVDs are even extremely expensive.]
Well, what is extremely expensive otherwise.
[5 AVCHD dvds are not available on conventional DVD players play! synonymous if the nice man from the electronics market is still part of the claims.]
Your experience with specialized vendors I can not assess. You do not coincide with mine. Mini DV or what is synonymous always synonymous in any living room and play device. Interferes with the Who? In addition there are the PS3. The plays DVDs UX1 even includes the menus created there. Where are you please with your HDV films made from behind? But rather than scaled down to PAL?
[6 finalize is actually a hobby or your profession?]
Admittedly, it takes a bit longer. Disturb me in ten minutes, however, incurred no. Will I see something, I have the large LCD of the camera or HDMI and ssden screen!
[to socialize naturally synonymous nor top4 disadvantage common to all AVCHD camcorder apply:]
Uhh kommts now very thick.
[1 capturingcapturing in the glossary explains to account for the HDV tape, but the average lack of suitable software synonymous]
Wasn Schmarn. Vegas 7 kanns einwandfrei. Certainly the timing was late. I think this is beyond.
[2.um a movie on a PC only needs to look smooth is actually a small rechenzentrum.]
My Core2Duo grabs. Certainly not with effects. But since HDV is synonymous with not much in it.
[3.The "standard" in the glossary explains avchdavchd is so standardisiertdass zb Sony vegas 7 only in the glossary explains avchdavchd of sony worked, but not the files of alien cam manufacturers.]
Although argued polemically, but actually the ONLY objective Oberhammer. This is for Panasonic Sonyand just embarrassing.
[4.alle industry-standard sizes that want to support]
Let's Wait, what's there. I have Premiere and Final Cut at any rate schnurzpiepegal.
Have fun discussing about technical shortcomings.
Greeting
Mono
Antwort von Jan:
Explain me why you are a medium necessarily want to use the equipment in only a few playable, only 15 minutes recording time in the best quality.
15 min recording time is probably even for the absolute amateur too little, why is the DVD if only eh BD drives can play - the little one has? DL already cost a lot of MiniDV cassettes.
That sounds exactly the same way, I prefer to go into the kiosk of the 1 n.weit is gone, although the 100 m far away, the same nice salesladies & Prices has just stop so I have a basic autonomous life live.
The 133x CF cards do not always agree, only a few details and small amounts of data. Panasonic has now finally been introduced CLASS 2,4,6 etc, when everyone finally durchsieht how fast the card is at any time.
VG
Jan
Antwort von akinnok:
[explain me why you are a medium necessarily want to use the equipment in only a few playable, only 15 minutes recording time in the best quality supplies.]
Oh man, I really do not follow it, they constructed arguments. WHAT are you please cut HDV material? I am now not in PAL resolution, but in HD quality? What you say? Play these files a standard DVD player?
[15 min recording time is probably even for the absolute amateur too little, why dvd if only eh bd drives can play - the little one has? dl already cost a lot of MiniDV cassettes.]
Who is filming 15 minutes s.Stück? No my settings is longer than 1-2 minutes. I think it is precisely in the absolute beginners and amateur just hours draufzuhalten.
[that sounds just as I prefer to go into the kiosk of the 1 n.weit is gone, although the 100 m far away, the same nice salesladies & prices has only stop so I have a basic autonomous lifelong attitudinal live.]
No, that sounds like a clean components to each other concerted Chain: HD Camera -> PS3 -> HD Television. Includes all the benefits of a nonlinear medium. tapes are absolutely silly.
Antwort von akinnok:
Oh man, I really do not follow it, they constructed arguments. WHAT are you please cut HDV material? I am now not in PAL resolution, but in HD quality? What you say? Play these files a standard DVD player?
Well obviously with the right players, such as the TViX HD, the Pinnacle SC200, the Xoro 8500, the Kiss 600/1600 of the PS3 or synonymous.
Who is filming 15 minutes s.Stück? No my settings is longer than 1-2 minutes. I think it is precisely in the absolute beginners and amateur just hours draufzuhalten.
Get ready for a concert or a long speech filmed?
tapes are absolutely silly. tapes are still inexpensive, durable and can be especially 60 minutes! It may be that our preferences will change - but that often todgesagte tape still lives quite fun to go there.
Antwort von akinnok:
Who is filming 15 minutes s.Stück? No my settings is longer than 1-2 minutes. I think it is precisely in the absolute beginners and amateur just hours draufzuhalten.
In an interview, it is not sooo great for the flow, because if you say every 15 minutes must be: "Stop, we need a short change our disc - the interesting idea of just please remember"
Antwort von Jan:
One thing is for sure but I do not know any of the non-amateur with a AVCHD DVD Something Camera filming, VX 2100, PD 170, XL 1 & 2, DVX 100, DSR 250 P, 400 P, 450 P or in the field of FX HD 1.7 Z & V 1, XL A, G, H 1, HVX 200 are the names of the cameras with which people work, we call them professionals who earn their money, a class drüber like the cameras of Matthias then yes, there still synonymous.
Somehow you have an incorrect definition of professional in your first post.
It is so great that a few weeks ago, the PS 3 is escaped, so you can indeed synonymous to BD 10 users, but the devices just like the BDP S 1 (currently in Germany appears) just grossly overpriced and just rip off customers, the devices are simply not much money its worth.
Who likes money rauschmeisst should halt the BDP S 1, nor a KDL 40 W 2000 and the UX 1,3,7 purchase order to admire his films.
UX 1 for me is sometimes useless, manual shutter, aperture, gain, WAG, Focal Distance Ring & Ring, manual & headphone output Tonausteuerung brauch ich schon mal definitely the UX 1, ja ne beginner Consumer HD Camera equipment so they may have not synonymous.
At the interview 15 minutes can be so rich, but I say yes, nothing.
But during the concert, I've not so many cameras that allow me ichs can permanently switch the DVDs and hope the others will not exactly synonymous. Even MiniDV cassettes with her 1 hour or 80 minutes too short, a Fire gates hard drive is interesting.
That so many filmmakers a shorter recording time would do well, I doubt not, it is only the merciless "I make the medium completely amateur filmmakers".
AVCHD with DVD cameras will not easily sell reasonable, since Sony can do whatever they want, for me, a blind Angerenne umm BD quickly to market.
Funny or for UX 3, my chain is constantly advertising in Munich with the UX 3, strangely, the stock still as high as before the advertising - which may indeed synonymous s.unseren prices (irony), but other models sell so synonymous like the gutverkaufte HC 7 with MiniDV tape, the Sonymal again unable to deliver ...
VG
Jan
Antwort von Fr0stbeule:
[dvd with AVCHD cameras will not easily sell reasonable because sony can do whatever they want, for me, a blind angerenne umm bd quickly to market. ]
I do not actually think that the AVCHD DVD BD their cameras can boost sales.
Of those I know that a DVD-camera was purchased, the only reason they have bought, because the DVD's grandson Grosmuttis then synonymous to 20 Euro expensive Hayakashiki-DVD player will play (and which is "HD" pretty much no preference. ..). What uses as the "production chain" with the PS3 at home? That Optics AVCHD on DVD has the potential advantages of DVD simply omitted and only the inherited disadvantages. Toll ...
However, I do not believe that the tape still has a great future. The media of the future are either hard drive or flash memory. I think the pro's (those who earn money in order) are fool's us and the demanding amateur segment moves then.
That is just terrible that it is in the amateur segment still no devices based on hard drive and / or flash memory, which can with good conscience, demanding the audience can recommend.
Which brings us back to the question, we are, why do not amateur HDV device on such a recording medium can / will.
Antwort von rudi:
Which brings us back to the question, we are, why do not amateur HDV device on such a recording medium can / will. Just as it seems, this may be just the HD Everio GZ-HD7 JVC of!
The FullHD mode with 1920 pixels Pillepalle seems to be yes, but it makes so synonymous HDV-compatible m2t.Ströme on hard drive (if not synonymous so may mean).
This distinguishes them with variable bit rate MPEG2 also 1440er flows even on SD Card.
Moreover, three-chip, looks as if JVC as a good niche because the aims and has built what many users actually want. I'm going to get camera in any case after Pentecost Watch ...
Many greetings
Rudi
Antwort von wolfgang:
So have viewed the JVC HD7 a few people. The findings can probably compress so that the optics just at the edge tends to be blurred - what a full-HD display unit serious notice than on an HD-Ready screen. And but that the colors of the 3-chip - for exterior shots - much better than some chip ala HV20 can (and what is not a surprise).
Whether you agree with the first point may live, each must decide for itself anyway.
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=3858
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=3312
Antwort von roloslash:
The more you are interested in a compact camcorder, the SD / SDHC card recording, the more you will be confused, which concerns the issue of AVCHD (which editing program, long render times, technical claims s.den Calculator, medium BluRay player has little someone does spend as MPEG2, etc., etc.)
Probably I buy on ebay a Panasonic SDR 150 of the SD Card with MPEG2 recording (unfortunately, the Panasonic is no longer officially in the program, no successor synonymous). Then I can cut and rendering my equipment and I keep on the safe Page (synonymous if the created videos - on DVD - not the best possible level of quality standards).
roloslash
Antwort von minnie:
The more you are interested in a compact camcorder, the SD / SDHC card recording, the more you will be confused, which concerns the issue of AVCHD (which editing program, long render times, technical claims s.den Calculator, medium BluRay player has little someone does spend as MPEG2, etc., etc.)
Probably I buy on ebay a Panasonic SDR 150 of the SD Card with MPEG2 recording (unfortunately, the Panasonic is no longer officially in the program, no successor synonymous). Then I can cut and rendering my equipment and I keep on the safe Page (synonymous if the created videos - on DVD - not the best possible level of quality standards).
roloslash I'm just your opinion. I have therefore now synonymous first n'e FS 22 Canon Legria fetched. I've been 2 weeks and I can only recommend.
Although in Voaussicht HD upgraded my PC, then have me but for the "regressive" variant SD and decided to think that the first moment is the right decision, so until all editing programs are reasonably ausgreift and no longer make the whole problem, you always read and hear.
But I think the main problem is really the issue, who has already n'en Blu-Ray player or HD-capable DVD player. That is, when I finished my video s.jemanden want to, it may perhaps not see - and I must always ask what eienm stand for his home video technology - so rather conventional variant DVD "normal" with perhaps a little loss of quality.
There are worse !!!!!
Minnie
Antwort von Jan:
Wed 23 May, 2007 17:19
The contribution was 2 years old, because a lot happens in the video world.
But AVCHD to DVD with a video camera is dead, but that was before the "miracle bullet" to see.
VG
Jan
