Infoseite // Why is HDD always deuced?

Frage von mihart:


Dear Forum members,
the more I read around this forum, the more confused I am. It seems everyone has an HDD camcorder to verteufeln. I was with all the arguments, but unfortunately I am under no circumstances.

I want to buy me a camcorder to s.and to movies a few times to shoot (I am Beginners and did not want me in time and matter to deepen) and then archived. That seems to me an HDD camcorder is ideal.

Here are my arguments:
- I can understand the movies without problems and additional cards via USB to my PC capture
- I can edit it there (eg Nero)
- I can simply beautiful film to DVD and burn me to watch any DVD player (if I go to other people to view the film, I have the camera do not always lug)
- DVDs are now so inexpensive that it is synonymous no price disadvantage compared Tapes are
- On a DVD is so synonymous at least 1 hour movie on it
- On a normal television, there seems to be synonymous yes no differences in quality to (so I read in some papers and that's the most important thing, right?)

Is this all complete nonsense and I have written or are most of the members here in the forum simply too conservative for the technical progress to look into the eye?
Do not get me wrong, I would like anyone on the feet occur, but in my view is s.dem purchase a HDD camcorder for a mere amateur (which it wishes to remain synonymous) no longer pass way (for example, the Panasonic SDR-H250EG-S ).
Or it is someone I am still on the contrary to convince. I would be on "convincing" arguments look.

Schönen Gruß
Michael



Antwort von beiti:

The people here stop talking from experience, not theory. In theory, everything works as you've described it (if your planned modifications are largely restricted to cuts). Practically it may take some time until you find a workflow that actually works, ie a processing and output of the HDD to DVD movies, without intervening qualitätsminderne Neucodierungen that are needed. Just because the camcorder manufacturers to DVD compatible MPEG2 promises, must be the editing program is not synonymous to indicate if you have bad luck, is all your material before the issue re-rendered - what that means for the quality, you can think.
As I said: It can work if all goes well. But the post of HDD camcorder files is just not so far from mature as DV editing.

The problem is not the hard drive as such, but there used MPEG2 format. The HDD camcorder is practically a ready output format, the subsequent processing of artifacts and other fast error indicates, however, is a weakly compressed DV material, which is still decent color, etc. can tolerate, because the critical quality MPEG2 encode only s . At the end of the processing is done by software. Once you have increased processing plant (eg, Color, Effects, etc.) is the DV tape so quality is still at an advantage.

If the HDD camcorder DV-AVI directly record would see the matter differently. But this is a capacity problem on 1 GB of memory to get only 4.5 minutes DV, but at least 15 minutes MPEG2. The DV cassettes offer just enough of memory for very little money, that is (still) their great strength.

To once again to your original question back: If you find the above workflow, you can safely with the HDD camcorder for your private purposes lücklich be. But people here in the forum synonymous have good reasons to be skeptical.



Antwort von Frank B. nicht eingelogt:

Hi Michael,
here has, I believe, nobody was against the recording to HD or DVD. The problem is related Compression in 2 or MPG MPG 4th

There is no knowledge of my DV camcorder to the hard drive (s.Werk) can hold. This is only with expensive special solutions or INTERMEDIARIES Calculator. All camcorders with hard disks or DVD recorder but the use of highly compressed MPG2 format. But this is lossy than just DV Vormat. As long as the end product is a DVD, it may perhaps even go. Many filmmakers save their films, but like the higher quality DV format on hard drive or DV videotape.

Quite different for high definition camcorders from. Since there are only 2 format, for the amateur in question must inevitably Both formats compress higher than the DV system, because otherwise the resulting data are no longer adequate record could be. HDV (recorded in MPG2-unlogischweise always on tape) and AVCHD (recording in MPG 4 always on hard drive, DVD or smart card, but terribly bad nachzubearbeiten). Many filmmakers therefore advised of this last format.

For me would be desirable combinations: DV camcorder with recording to hard drive and HDV camcorder with recording to hard drive. Both, however, there is not (s.Werk).
Camcorder in standard resolution (720x576 pixels) does not need my MPG 2 compression, as the data rate of DV with each 0-8-15 calculator today händelbar and we are so synonymous in the calculator, for the purpose of the DVD production can compress. It is synonymous but open to a superior format to save it.

Frank



Antwort von Udo Schröer:

Hello Mihard,

if you read here in the forum would have you even noticed three things:

-The recording times refer to the worst stage of the Cam. In the best setting you have your plate full quite quickly.

- The drive can then cause the noise in the sound are available.

- Mini DV tapes are with 25 MBit / sec is described, this corresponds in DV mode compression of 1:5
Your videos are on the HDD in a written MPG 2 Format the HDD as it is not possible Camcrder such a large amount of data such as DV process. This is making very clear loss of quality with it. Moreover, these 2 videos MPG is not as easy as cut DV video.

- In HDV has one extra field a new video codec developed to address this problem with HDD / DVD to eliminate (AVCHD) This codec works with MPG then 4 of the more compressed and efficient istwie the MPG2 codec.

The people here in the forum verteufeln not a new technique, but looking forward to this! Unfortunately, it is the most new developments in quality is not convincing.

So if you value the quality of your recordings off you, then you should visit the Council of the community follow Slashcam and a mini DV camcorder or you can buy the same climb with a AVCHD system.
This my tip!
http://www.produkte.panasonic.de/product/product.asp?sStr=4 @ - @ 10 @ 21 @ 381@@@@HDC-SD1EG-S @ High | Definition | old-fashioned camcorder @ & = N & upper = & prop =



Antwort von PowerMac:

"mihart" wrote: (...) - I can understand the movies without problems and additional cards via USB to my PC capture (...)

The least Calculator require additional tickets. Firewire is often incorporated. Recent DV camcorder synonymous can be controlled via USB. The fact is that when you have problems s.wenigsten DV, DVD and HDD Camrodern s.meisten.

"mihart" wrote: (...) - I can edit it there (eg Nero) (...)

Beautiful. With DV, you can recordings with hundreds s.Videoprogrammen edit. When HDD with just a few. But clearly, synonymous HDD recordings, you can edit. Only the poor quality of there immediately.

"mihart" wrote: (...) - I can simply beautiful film to DVD and burn me to watch any DVD player (if I go to other people to view the film, I have the camera do not always lug) (...)

Beautifully simple? The DV is synonymous with beautifully simple. Only it goes of DV to DVD quickly and has a better technical quality. No man presents anyway Movies of the Camera. Do you think people drag DV camcorder to its movie presentations with? DVDs to create is not an advantage for HDD camcorder. Ds goes anywhere and makes each. Because I can tell synonymous: an advantage for DV camcorders is that the night is colder than outside.

"mihart" wrote: (...) - DVDs are now so inexpensive that it is synonymous no price disadvantage compared to tapes there (...)

The logic, I can not follow. You have to differentiate between recording and playback medium. When you take HDD to the built-in hard disk on. DV camcorders use the DV tapes. To play using any recording medium regardless of the DVD. So your argument is pointless.

"mihart" wrote: (...) - On a DVD is so synonymous at least 1 hour movie on it (...)

Did nothing with the question about HDD camcorders to be done. The basis of DVDs you can not distinguish between systems, since the DVD only s.Schluss regardless of the recording system used. In addition, DVDs have no fixed maturity. It is almost everything of a few minutes to many hours on a DVD s.Laufzeit possible.

"mihart" wrote: (...) - On a normal television, there seems to be synonymous yes no differences in quality to (so I read in some papers and that's the most important thing, right?) (...)

Yet. The technical quality is clearly worse. And if you are synonymous only rudimentary editing, then it will be even worse for HDD recording. DV provides higher contrast reserves.

"mihart" wrote: (...) Here in the forum simply too conservative for the technical progress to look into the eye? (...)

No.. Everything has its justifications. HDD is simply no great size. Perhaps it is good for you despite all the drawbacks.



Antwort von Udo Schröer:

PS:
I think the DVD / HDD Parts are synonymous just because it has always been ignorant, which they buy. Have been annoyed in retrospect a lot.



Antwort von mihart:

Thanks for the quick responses and the understanding of absolute beginners. Of course I am glad to hear you, because you are already a lot next to me. As I said, I wanted anyone to join the feet.

Have I understood you correctly, that if I have my films on DVD would like to save a DV camcorder is still better than an HDD camcorder is?

So I guess on tape to play on the PC, edit (I would actually just cut together a little, no make great edits) and then save to DVD.

I can have a relatively cheap DV camcorder and still buy a better quality on the DVD hinbekommen than with a comparatively expensive HDD camcorder?

Schönen Gruß
Michael



Antwort von Udo Schröer:

"mihart" wrote: Thanks for the quick responses and the understanding of absolute beginners. Of course I am glad to hear you, because you are already a lot next to me. As I said, I wanted anyone to join the feet.

Have I understood you correctly, that if I have my films on DVD would like to save a DV camcorder is still better than an HDD camcorder is?

So I guess on tape to play on the PC, edit (I would actually just cut together a little, no make great edits) and then save to DVD.

I can have a relatively cheap DV camcorder and still buy a better quality on the DVD hinbekommen than with a comparatively expensive HDD camcorder?

Schönen Gruß
Michael

YES

synonymous with it because not to cheapest Cam should run. A camera should always be so high as possible.



Antwort von mihart:

YES

synonymous with it because not to cheapest Cam should run. A camera should always be so high as possible. [/ Quote]

Udo,
Thanks for the clear answer. Now I know that I am not too cheap DV camcorder buy.

If you now have me one or two recommendations can give, then I am totally happy.

Thank you
Michael






Antwort von Fridu:

Hi Michael,
how much is your budget?



Antwort von Pixopolis:

http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/oesg/626066_-nv-gs230-panasonic.html



Antwort von mihart:

"Anonymous" wrote: Hi Michael,
how much is your budget?

It is actually not a question of budget, I want just a camera for an absolute amateur without much frills. I had already mentally s.bis accustomed to EUR 800 for a HDD camcorder of Panasonic.

Now that I have learned that HDD only the second choice is (or actually no choice), it should be with a DV camcorder actually be cheaper, right?