Frage von quanchi:
Hello!
Wanted to buy me a camcorder to make particularly around the holidays, etc. so that a few shots, but synonymous for inside shots he should not cut too badly. I think it would be good if I shoot some pretty pictures that could be (so I need a memory card with?), But I'm primarily concerned with moving pictures. I wanted to dump more than 350 ¬, I know this is not the power that you actually need, but I'm willing to compromise, and hope that it breaks me, not all the same here. It would be nice if someone could recommend me something, or give a tip.
Antwort von jodlafazema:
Hello quanchi
There is simply NO camcorder with usable light sensitivity and high Resolutionfür photos for max. ¬ 350. Therefore, we can not recommend synonymous.
Gruss
ph
Antwort von quanchi:
For example, what is it with the canon 830i? well, I'd spend if need be synonymous 400 ¬, but that is really top schmerzgrenze ...
Antwort von Acer:
Look at the times
SonyDCR-HC17
Antwort von Poldi:
So if they did, then let the SonyHC39, costs 388 euros here:
http://www3.guenstiger.de/gt/main.asp?produkt=356086
and is preferable to all cases of HC 17th SUper sharp picture, good lowlight and the image stabilizer and the best real 16:9. The device is great for the money.
Antwort von quanchi:
The HC39 does seem to be really not bad, but I've read that it needs minimum 7 lux (by which I quite frankly can not imagine a little), the canon 850i eg has this "nightview" feature. do you mean it brings? or should I let such favor would rather fax aside the quality (the Sony already has more pixels than the Canon). How dark should it be about the sony?
I see the grad Sonyhat "Super NightShot plus (0 Lux)" what's the point? (I can still add nich really in the dark, or ....)
Antwort von jodlafazema:
Yes, but only black and white .....
Antwort von Jan:
Hello you,
not again, the LUX Talkshow!
So, 20 lux is about one Leselampenlicht, only to present times, how much is 7 lux.
As Mark says, but always handle (is) the question is how the Picture looks at 3,5,7 or 0 lux. VAD had often test pictures at 20 lux, as can be seen at once on eg a Samsung at 5 lux, almost nothing, a SonyHC 39 (without Nightshot with 7 lux) was quite useful, although the picture a bit rushed, but was without Beacon quite ok.
Each company has a night program (Nightshot, Night Scope, or Night mode)
Since Canon, JVC and Panasonic extend the shutter speed is extremely fast movement of closure. Samsung and Sonyhaben Infarotprogramm - Sonyseit some time synonymous Nightshot Pros - almost in color with about 3 m range.
Sonyist LowLight usually the king - the eagle, but received a "good" picture in low light to be here at Allen a video light!
The HC 39 is preferable to many Einsteigerncam zb's accessories at 2h Battery FP 50, remote control, real 16 / 9, 1 million Stillimage's 320x240 or MPEG movies on your memory card or in terms of good lowlight, very good stability and good built-in Micro ( In contrast to most of Canon 's incl 850i)
The main competition 3CCD Panasonic GS 75 / is 180 so a little more expensive, and the budget still has to be opened next.
LG
January
Antwort von quanchi:
many thanks jan. I have really a more enlightened wenich think it will improve the transfer of the sony
Antwort von coconut:
The Sonystand synonymous in my paper, but has become more expensive (out of 349 to 388) and there is no price values the Accu synonymous with security in the functioning of the action () tell only info chip
Too bad, was my personal "Traumcam" (at least for the old price).
Now it is a step below a Panasonic NV-GS17 become.
We'll see how the part is. Probably Wednesday or Thursday to come.
'm Curious about. When there is nothing, she goes back, I go get the pump nuts s.and NV-GS75 ..... now the small price difference for the synonymous Sonymacht then nothing more.
Shall have to anyway (use a tripod).
Antwort von Poldi:
The Sonystand synonymous in my paper, but has become more expensive (out of 349 to 388) and there is no price values the Accu synonymous with security in the functioning of the action () tell only info chip
Too bad, was my personal "Traumcam" (at least for the old price).
Now it is a step below a Panasonic NV-GS17 become.
We'll see how the part is. Probably Wednesday or Thursday to come.
'm Curious about. When there is nothing, she goes back, I go get the pump nuts s.and NV-GS75 ..... now the small price difference for the synonymous Sonymacht then nothing more.
Shall have to anyway (use a tripod). Since I can not quite give you. I Have an info-chip Battery for my concern, on ebay. The Battery NP-FP70 here cost 15 euros and works perfectly (with the info display) on LCD. Absolutely super.
Then an external charger for it, making together 30 euros.
The Pana GS17 is probably the cheapest on the market that Panasonic has.
Antwort von coconut:
So as far as the chip Accu Info:
It is with the 2006 models (again) problems. Several users have already had non-functioning since Accus (Cam turns off).
Presumably Sonyimmer times change the encoding back to prevent the reproduction, as far as possible.
Others have no problem with 2005 models. I've written times 2005 / 2006 model, probably would rather s.Produktionswoche xx hot, but there have any information about it.
The Panasonic GS17 is THE cheapest, but definitely not the worst of me.
It is not always synonymous
correspondingly more expensive the better!
The Sonyist better in low light situations: occurs with me, without which I could not use a video light. 99% outdoors during daylight hours.
The Sonyhat the better stability: does not use so much to me because I have to 20s in the area and as the best stabilizer failure compared to a tripod ....
Sonyhat better image quality: Since even the experts argue. In the Magazine Videofimen is Sonygeringfügig better (26 equal to 27) for other tests. Since I have neither the one nor the other had to Comparison, I'll surprise me.
Sound quality: Again, unequal Picture: video films here has a tie. Otherwise, a time, sometimes the other forwards.
Well, as already noted, I'll surprise me. If it's the GS17 is not, but it will probably not SonyHC39, since according to the latest Preisruck upwards only 17, - teuros difference to Pana75 remain. This is. described according to sources in all areas much better than the Sony.
Unfortunately Sonyja always moves in the upper price range, hold the "Mercedes" among the manufacturers. Whether the higher price is justified in any case, everyone must decide for themselves.
I hesitated long synonymous with the cause and ultimately the info chip was crucial. If I have to reckon with, possibly even more than 100 times, - teuros need for a "thick" Accu spend, then that is a sustained argument for me.
We see ourselves right: As before, I would have liked to Sonygekauft, but ... (see above).
Antwort von Poldi:
Hello Coconut
I have a 2006-spec SonyHC42 and have a battery with the latest info-chip (15 euros) and it works perfectly.
Nur mal so zur Info.
If the Cam synonymous always prefer the Pana GS75 (despite their 3 chips). But that's probably geschmackssache.
Antwort von coconut:
Congratulations ;-))
Am really pleased for you
Was there one week here lezte Talkshow, pointing at the marcus as a ebay dealer, the original SonyAccus auctioned as well and you
can make a bargain ...
Have now with God not AGAINST Sony ...
But there was one point:
The cassette tray opens downward, which when using a tripod is not necessarily of benefit ;-)
The Pana GS 17 has just arrived.
Let you acclimatize a bit and then it goes to test ...
schau ma mal, the Emperor would say (oops I write as a bored Berlin ...)
Antwort von gerdjohannes:
Hello Coconut
ok. Then I'm curious about in your report on the GS17.
Especially in the Pana LowLight will be bad,'m curious about. I am highly satisfied with my Sony in lowlight.
Basically, give yourself the much discussed Cams anyway not bad.
Even if I must make my SonyHC42 Comparison with still prefer the Pana GS75.
It is clear to you that with the cassette slot then an argument for you.
Regards
Poldi
Antwort von gerdjohannes:
So ertsre impression deliberately only under lousy lighting conditions.
1 Studio in the room just a little too little natural light .... what to read ;-)
Conclusion: Better than expected. Even the colors are still correct
2 Recordings "Blue Hour" on a dog playground. Quite nasty, I know.
Well, let's raise synonymous already reached the limit.
Although I must say, apart of a much blur occurring (but it was so dark), the problems of Aotufocus already got, even these recordings still quite useful. No. Is it annoying motion blur to us, the colors are still as they synonymous perceives the human eye in the twilight. So, a bit dull with a tendency to pass in gray. But as I said, still quite useful.
What animal annoys me: I have not looked Doofkoop and let me send the wrong Firewire cable. By MoBo out was not a port is running and my DV Card (of Electronic Device, under Win XP!), Has only 4 pin unions. Now I had the Testfilmchen draufziehen via S-video :-( (
Is not logically true.
Well, another cable is ordered. top comes next week.
Moregn then recording at (hoffentlcih) correct daylight.
We'll see what the little can.
If I do not like, they stop going back ...
Ah yes, the stability jerky had been pretty intense .. especially with no tripod.
Antwort von coconut:
Shit, why am / I was a guest at a time ...
As a clue, low light quality, "Blaue Stunde"
Is) something like this, like an analog VHS Mittelprächtige in normal daylight (no sun. So unschärfen light, depending on the contrast loss of detail.
Right time, the question is how large the loss of dubbing using S-Video to Firewire?
Has there been an experience?
I make this precisely, if very unwillingly synonymous ...
Antwort von gerdjohannes:
Hallöle, I would like to own whilst the issue again. I'm considering bring the HC173 or HC23E of Sonyzu. Can someone give me a hint, which one is better?
Greeting
Lichterfelder
Antwort von coconut:
Hi,
As far as I know, is the successor to the HC23, the HC17.
As an amendment to me eigendlich noticed only now existing color viewfinder.
Antwort von gerdjohannes:
Hi,
As far as I know, is the successor to the HC23, the HC17.
As an amendment to me eigendlich noticed only now existing color viewfinder. Thanks for the quick reply. I am now reading the last 2 evenings, etc., according to Google and find little info. Again, I've been durchgeguckt determined 30 threads, then slowly his eyes covered.
When the HC17 is what cut of Integrated Control, which does not have the HC23. But I do not think that you need, right?
Greeting
Lichterfelder
Antwort von coconut:
So if this entails Edit function is meant, not sure this is s.Calculator vieeeel better.
Otherwise DV Cam can be controlled through cutting programs (via Firewire / iLink!).
Longer needs the (film) Man does not ;-))
Antwort von gerdjohannes:
All right, then it is probably the HC23, the whole 9 euros more than the HC17 will cost.
Then I only need a Firewire card and cable .... * has yet to find the link
Antwort von coconut:
Both are cheap to buy it (cable 1-3, - teuros Map 5-15,-teuros)
= = i-Link Firewire IEEE1394 (i-Link is ne special designation by Sony)
Antwort von prem:
Both are cheap to buy it (cable 1-3, - teuros Map 5-15,-teuros)
= = i-Link Firewire IEEE1394 (i-Link is ne special designation by Sony) Thank you!
Lichterfelder
Antwort von coconut:
Thus, the Cam is back!
The main reason is extremely strong fringing in stronger contrasts. These indicate a poor quality lens.
Now I'm certainly expecting a dreamer, and high end for this price,
However, if the branches of a tree to appear at almost full zoom only in this "beautiful" Lilafarbsaum, then the lowest category.
The stability is not synonymous Is stuttering without end and that even at "low" (10-12x) Zoom ...
I once Comparison to my JVC S-VHS cam out gekram and included the same order.
Result: Hardly worse resolution! Significantly better lens (no halos!).
For Comparison, I have both times Filmschnippsel transferred to CD (720x576), and indeed the actual eigendlich Resolutionder JVC (is still synonymous ne NTSC standard) is exceeded. Nevertheless s.Television hardly recognize a different, except that the JVC does not produce halos halt.
Now it is probably still a Sony or a Canon evt synonymous (with) Microphone. Let's see where this journey.
I guess it was before being re-imported one. Evt. synonymous differences are there?
Antwort von Jan:
Hello you,
na at the Panasonic's digital stabilization affects some more jerky, so many know. But equally massive aberrations?
I can not confirm that. Well with the increased demands will probably only SonyHC example, a 90 / 94 / 94 with Carl Zeiss T * - with Apo Lens aberrations and fringing to help Coconut.
LG
January
Antwort von Poldi:
Hi Coconut
I habs I almost thought that this would happen. You put the same value on things like. I have been synonymous heard that installs Panasonic Lenses poor in the lower price.
I told how the SonyHC42 (the HC39 is identical). The thing is really great, costs around 450 euros on the Internet. And the Picture Stabilizer is awesome, really. Can not suspend. And the battery of Ebay with Info-chip works flawlessly (15 euros).
Regards
Poldi
Antwort von Jan:
Well, in many Testmag's are the entry of Sony, Canon and Panasonic very close together in terms of image quality.
The one or the other firm's color match a little differently distributed, one can indeed be in the "strong - such as Canon says emotionally perceived colors enhanced by the famous Processor
DiG! See C DV Colors at Canon.
So bad I can see but not Pana.
LG
January
Antwort von coconut:
To help us understand each other.
I certainly did not expect that there garkeine fringing, but when entire branches only as a faded lilac "are something to see," then this is simply bad, and even in this price category not acceptable.
There are even some who see in the image quality of the Pana before the HC17, in other cases the reverse.
So dear "magazines" with her verlaubt like me can have ...
I'm rather s.sofort even a picture of it) (in the truest sense of the word.
@ jan
You did not have even posted times that there may be differences Lenses for the "cheap" Panas? Thus, until the 35er?
That would explain these differences evt.
@ Poldi
I would have liked to synonymous, but unfortunately I lack the money ..
Maybe I keep the time being synonymous my S-VHS and am happy with the photos without color fringes ...
Then I save, if possible, the rest of me still together, so I have not been such a frustrating experience.
Note:
It was of course a DVD that I created to compare myself ;-))
Antwort von Jan:
Yes, we already had the theme of time, higher category 3 CCD Pana's have a Leica lens indeed.
At that time we were not sure to what extent synonymous heranreicht a GS 280 Leica Lens s.ein "prime real glass lens" of Leica price range eg 2000 or because of me 5000 ¬. Just like Carl Zeiss in a 300 ¬ Camera SonyHC 17 - I do not think that has Carl Zeiss lens with a true eg with the German Contax SLR Edelfirma what to do. The name belies the wait, but in an ¬ 300 Cam, what is the cost because the lens?
Wiegesagt I had not heard because of increased coloring / seams in the Pana's entry-level class in the.
It's obvious You go right professionally s.The thing, unfortunately, synonymous must be paid at the higher claims Prices.
At 350 ¬ desire HC 17 times to test, better would be particularly SonyHC 90 / 94 / 96 - the color bleeding problem she barely knows, thanks to the korriegierten T * Lens.
But do not grumble at the HC 17 on:
- The few manual features eg no Shutter Priority
- The non-existing S-Video connector - 25 ¬ original cable must be purchased to obtain S-Video
- The touch screen - no remote control incl Everything goes forward / rewind it
- That does not end existError Charger - what had GS 17
- Worse Wide Anglegegenüber GS 17 at 4 °.
LG
January
Antwort von coconut:
@ jan,
Some of the features of the Sony, which have led me, yes), the Panasonic preferable (External Power Supply / Charger, Acuuproblem possible.
Manual adjustments in the price range I did not expect. S-Video is synonymous not a must, since the films are about 99% on a calculator, that is normal monitor. Should be ifs übern Television, will halt ne created DVD.
Touch Screen synonymous, I do not really think so ... tingly synonymous is the HC24 control while on my paper, which has a remote. To a question that opens up when the band HC23/24 shaft (now changed to Page size, wider but lower) or is it still down?
If you do not points, I have to swing myself into the car and stop times ne hour, the beautiful landscape in order to view these look DoofMarkt.
Wide Angleist not an issue at all, since I'm up to 99.9% only outdoors.
More specifically, my wife (with me as support) operates with Dogs.
So that you can even see me, what you (Shepherd's) dog (so for example, makes the "Fußlaufen"), films I the whole thing. From personal experience, I knows that you know that, as a guide dog can practice the judge never accurate.
So I stop synonymous need a big zoom range, since the dogs have spots the size of a football field, and it makes no sense any tiny spots filmed in the distance ;-).
I think of so it is synonymous to understand when they disturb me strong fringing. We see nothing right!
Well bites but "the cat's tail" because the higher-Cam's usually "only" a 10-12 fold optical zoom. The range definitely does not really ....( crap, I have had this experience with my old Canon Hi8 do ..)
So it remains only a cheaper viiiieeel with zoom, but still sufficient image quality, so no excessive fringing.
I've known this halo problem of digital photography. I might look centuries old Fuji S602 makes it synonymous, but in much lesser extent. A halo, in the truest sense of the word, so I can life, but when a Complete article (in the test, a branch, no branch) only in a vermatschten Violet is shown, then it is useless.
Incidentally, had the Cam synonymous major focus problems in the large zoom range (> 18). Really focusing as they did not, despite Tripod.
Oh yeah, have a new tripod synonymous ago. Mine is not suitable for panning (jerky). I shall probably be markus "secret tip" that take Velbon CX-686th
Antwort von Jan:
I work in a Stupid market!
Well Median and Saturnian habens not easy ...
No this is easy all the Mini DV 2006 he Sonyhaben the Kasettenfach upwards incl HC 23 / 24.
Among the early 2005er HC 90, the first "cheap" Sonywith compartment up but unfortunately with a small battery slot (FA 70 Battery with 1220 mAh would be the largest of the battery can be used)
Because a dog can be quite nimble, Sonyof would be an advantage, its AF time is well ahead of the Panasonic. 20 x opt would suffice.
Well since only helps to test HC 24 ...
LG
January
Antwort von coconut:
Hello Jan,
You did not come too close ;-)
I wonder again about the people who buy uncritically at MM and Saturn. They're billg ....
But do not always hold true. Hence referring to Doofmarkt not synonymous to the staff, although I've already experienced since the so-called salesperson ....( incidentally, come from the computer industry alone was 16 years at IBM) well, they probably gibts everywhere ... but rather a part of the customer.
Otherwise, thanks for the info, that would help so much, at least use a tripod.
So trend is clearly towards Sony. Because, as you already noted, the focus is very quick and I hope that this lens is a bissle better.
Perhaps I had synonymous a "Monday device" caught.
20 x ought eigendlich enough. My JVC S-VHS has 16-fold, which is hard s.der border. Can not for want of rumturnen times on the court, if there is testing or training. In the "home course" is only the front open to film so synonymous with no possibility of the page.
Let's test it ..
Antwort von Jan:
No, I can understand it even in my chain gibts already be one or two "dud".
Although most of the sellers I know are already fairly well versed in order, without a professional's (to be especially older men in the TV / video or photograph the area as I came out of the "small" shop - that was then plattgemacht of the Great Chain ) Primus and Metro Plus Bringer "Media-Saturn has indeed synonymous front - with the opening of several markets now, even small towns.
To remove the motto - first all opponents out of the way - then pull Prices ..
Well that my boss can not hear you .....
LG
January
Antwort von coconut:
Well, as I said. UXO are everywhere, I know what I mean ;-)
That bothers me with the flattening halt synonymous, because, unfortunately, so are (usually) a lot of expertise synonymous lost ...
But this is a general picture of our society. Unfortunately, far too uncritically. Mainly cheap and convenient.
Thanks again for your info ... and I tell your boss not synonymous ...
Antwort von ba:
Look at ma with the JVC GR-DVL355, they synonymous you can sell a little cheaper, a mere 3 weeks old with no signs of wear, and all accessories as it is sold in the shop.
BA
